Keith Vas is a [banned word beginning with "C"]

[DaGaffer]

Some might say that was pretty convenient timing.

And "some" might be idiots. Brown won the vote. Davis is against it. He resigns the next day. I'm struggling to see what other timing there could have been. There's cynicism, then there's tinfoil hat wearing paranoia.

 

[Jupitus]

And "some" might be idiots. Brown won the vote. Davis is against it. He resigns the next day. I'm struggling to see what other timing there could have been. There's cynicism, then there's tinfoil hat wearing paranoia.

I think he meant the loss of terrorist related info on a train...

 

[Scouse]

I think he meant the loss of terrorist related info on a train...

I think that he meant that too. But I like the other interpretation. Never be so naieve to think that that sort of shit doesn't go on all the time.

Government isn't the be-all and end-all power that we presume it is. It has to fight to keep corporate, oil and banking powers at bay - and they've got just as much a say in our day-to-day lives as the governments do. Probably more.

 

[xane]

"Erosion of Civil Liberties" ? What a weak and empty phrase and it makes me cringe every time I hear it.

You are either against detention without charge or you are for it, its very simple and there is no grey area. The matter of 7, 14, 28 or 42 days is moot. If it's "erosion of civil liberties" you support then it should be a couple of hours without charge whilst Inspector Plod gets his cup of tea and biscuit and that's the absolute maximum, lots of countries have 24 or 48 hour limits and even that's considered "erosion".

Arguing about the number of days is puerile, there is no principle on the table so people shouldn't pretend there is one. If you want to argue about EoCL then argue why we should be holding someone without charge at all, the chances are you'll fail to do so and so the next best thing is to have a hissy fit over two weeks.

David Davies is a prat for these so-called "principles", a complete waste of taxpayer money just so he can stick two fingers up at Labour as he knows full well people wont vote for Brown's monkey in Alan B'stard's "True Blue" Haltemprice even if they agreed on a 42 year limit and you paid them.

 

[Tom]

A police officer can detain a suspect on suspicion of committing a crime, hold that person for half a day or so, and then release them without charge.

They are, for that period, being held without charge.

Now I'm quite happy for things to work like that, so obviously I'm all for holding terrrrrists for 3 years if necessary.

Most of the time you talk sense xane, however on this occasion you're talking bollocks.

 

[xane]

I think you misunderstand me Tom, I am not arguing whether you should hold someone without charge or not, what rattles my cage is when people talk about "civil liberties" and then covertly support a "moderately" length of time allowed to hold without charge, be that 12 hours or 42 days.

If you are worried about civil liberties, then you should be arguing against _any_ unnecessary amount of time held without charge, and even 12 hours is by no means necessary, or even 2 hours in today's computerised 24/7 society. However, that's a tough argument to put forward in the present circumstances, so the wimpish dance around the issue, or, like Davies, they spend taxpayer money whilst they dance.

I'd be fully prepared to engage in an argument about the impact on civil liberties, but arguing about 12 hours or 42 days is something completely different, in fact it is hypocritical to even discuss civil liberties when doing so.

 

[throdgrain]

Found it at last

A quote I've been looking for for ages, from George Washington, not that I'm his biggest fan


A government is like a fire, a handy servant but a dangerous master.


Shame we dont think like this in our country.

 

[Tom]

You should watch "John Adams" Throd, GW makes a few appearances in that

Very good mini-series it is.

 

[throdgrain]

I dont know what you mean mate

 

[nath]

New HBO show I think...