Just watchewd the "fitna" movie

[Olgaline]

Have to say I did not aproove,
Last time I saw anything similar to that was some inet "jihad film" and conjures up memories of things like "Der ewige Jude" It's shitty properganda by small minded people,

Only "intresting" bit is how he sets it up as "in thier own words" and thats no accidant and very powerfull, but it's still set up to feed hate and polarization.

I do agree that we need to adress the issues of religiouse polarization trend, but stuff like this sure as hell isnt helping...

you can find it on liveleak,
I however "maybe oddly for some" do not disaproove of it beeing released, only it's message,

 

[echome]

I have read quite a bit about it but yet to see it. Thought I would use the night on it but apparently the inet at work is rather crap tonight. So guess I'll have to wait untill Sunday.

Really does sound like a Nazi-propaganda movie...

 

[Olgaline]

Gonna post the link, if any mods find it "too strong" ?
then by all means deleet the link.

LiveLeak.com - Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English)

 

[echome]

Awesome, thanks mate. Got something to do now.
P.s Can't rep you again already hehe ;-)

 

[echome]

Hmm... Don't know what to say really.

Well atleast I have seen it now I guess. Didnt do anything for me other than confirm me in my thoughts of it just being another nazi-propaganda movie. If you wanted to you could find the same stuff in the bible and same pictures of "jews" doing horrific things to muslims.

Just silly if you ask me. It does in no way deserv all the media attention that it is getting. One should just let it be and be forgotten.

 

[AngelHeal]

...ignoring and moving on is the best part..



anyway believe what you want to believe.

 

[Zede]

wouldnt surprise me if George W. financed this shite.


Will we ever see a movie about what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians ? ofc not thats anti-semitism, and we are not allowed to criticise the Jews are we ?

Big up to the muslims, Jihad against the right wing christians & jews that run the USA, the media and most of the worlds fuckin money.

 

[AngelHeal]

wouldnt surprise me if George W. financed this shite.


Will we ever see a movie about what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians ? ofc not thats anti-semitism, and we are not allowed to criticise the Jews are we ?

Big up to the muslims, Jihad against the right wing christians & jews that run the USA, the media and most of the worlds fuckin money.

.....cleary you are much smarter then mr Wilders....

 

[Lamp]

watching the vid now...

 

[Chronictank]

I don't get it, it's just a propoganda reel
what is it's significance (this is the first time i have heard of it)

Edit: didnt watch it all, got bored about half way

 

[~Latency~]

it's quite obviously based on one sided views, but one of the comments posted about it was so very true ...


"if 'moderate' muslims paraded and kicked off about islamic terrorists HALF as much as they complain about 'islamaphobia' or cartoons being drawn then maybe the western world would see islam as a religion that condones peace"


i totally agree with that, the whole world is bending over backwards to accomodate muslims, and what do we get for it? a bunch of bullsh. if i went to an islamic state and built a church and an english only school i'd a whole lot of grief

 

[Zede]

it's quite obviously based on one sided views, but one of the comments posted about it was so very true ...


"if 'moderate' muslims paraded and kicked off about islamic terrorists HALF as much as they complain about 'islamaphobia' or cartoons being drawn then maybe the western world would see islam as a religion that condones peace"


i totally agree with that, the whole world is bending over backwards to accomodate muslims, and what do we get for it? a bunch of bullsh. if i went to an islamic state and built a church and an english only school i'd a whole lot of grief

in my opinion terrorists...

Fighting the USA in Iraq : legitimate cause, not terrorists.

Fighting the Jews in Palestine : legitimate cause, not terrorists

Anyone fighting the continued imperialism of the USA & Israel is not a terrorist in my eyes...

 

[Tasslehoff]

Okay Zede!

 

[Chronictank]

"if 'moderate' muslims paraded and kicked off about islamic terrorists HALF as much as they complain about 'islamaphobia' or cartoons being drawn then maybe the western world would see islam as a religion that condones peace"

if said people opened their eyes they would see they do...
free speech in the hands of morons is bad, but people supporting their lack of respect and downright bigotry is a hell of alot worse

danish magazines and hate mongering clerics alike

Why should 'moderate muslims' support them?,
remind me again what happens in germany if you march around with a poster of a swastika?
Anyone remember this:
BBC NEWS | UK | Call for Europe-wide swastika ban
or maybe lets go a bit more extreme, what happens if a muslim goes around shouting anti-west propoganda?
Ah yes they get deported/imprisoned (and quite rightly so), but surely its the same thing?

it's all well and good preaching about free speech when it suites you but if you want it you should be willing to accept all forms of it rather just hiding behind it when it suites you

in my opinion terrorists...

Fighting the USA in Iraq : legitimate cause, not terrorists.

Fighting the Jews in Palestine : legitimate cause, not terrorists

Anyone fighting the continued imperialism of the USA & Israel is not a terrorist in my eyes...

No... coalition troops in Iraq are perfectly legitimate, the insurgents are terrorists because the government supports the coalition troops. Regardless of your view on the matter they are indeed terrorists by definition because they
a) target non-combatants
b) are against the state

In Palestine i agree with you israel is the terrorist organisation

 

[Zede]

Okay Zede!

think i need a spliff, all to serious

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, nothing to be said really. Propaganda video, one sided, misquotes and bits and pieces taken to look bad in the middle of "shock value" video footage.

Hell, i could probably do this kind of a video of Freddyshouse and make it look twice as bad. Just takes a bit of cut/paste and time.

 

[Olgaline]

One thing I will say is this,
Moderate muslims really need to get off thier asses, and distance them selves from fundementalists and radicalists,

too often lately I've had the displesure of seeing time and time again otherwise inteligent people fall for the "attack defence stratagy" and tbh at times I dout they'r even aware that thats what they are doing,

"Aaah well, BUT...and the news papers, and israel and bush and and"
yet all most never "lately do you hear people who are otherwise logical intelligent muslims condem or clearly without a margin of dout distance them selves from radical and fundementalistic views.

point is you wont see them Support it, but very seldomly will you see them distance them selves from it either.

we have a saying that goes somethign in the region of "Den der tier samtykker" wich roughly translates too: he who keeps quiet, approves

oh and ps: I'd say the damn thing to any christian, jew, hindu or budist who acts this way.

I generally dont have any issue with any of the relions out there but "some times" i cant help but feel that logic often ends up the casuality in cases where religion is concered and well maybe thats not all that odd tho' since afterall most religions are centered around fiath and emotions, Logic ...well..you get the point

oh and lastly if your gona quote me quote this post in it's entirety.

 

[old.SevenSins]

Copy paste time of what I wrote on the FITNA topic on FH General:

One big fluke is what I'll say.

Linking a ritual festival to terrorism; bad
Posting an image of a rapper, and label it as the person who shot Theo van Gogh, Mohammed B.; bad
Using the danish cartoonists copyrighted material without asking permission (which he wouldn't have given); bad
Only using snippets of sentences of the koran, taken completely out of context that way; bad

And I'm saying this as an atheist dutchie, this piece of garbage powerpoint presentation with stolen material is nothing but a big laugh.

He had the attention, he had a lot of ways he could go with it, and he delivers this.

I say noone kill him, but start sueing him till he kills himself lol.

And to add to it:

I'm glad it didn't cause any more commotion other then our parliament debating about it.

I was going to suggest to hang the guy by the balls, but sueing him till he has to resort to living in cardboard boxes sounds like a better plan.

 

[Chronictank]

One thing I will say is this,
Moderate muslims really need to get off thier asses, and distance them selves from fundementalists and radicalists,

too often lately I've had the displesure of seeing time and time again otherwise inteligent people fall for the "attack defence stratagy" and tbh at times I dout they'r even aware that thats what they are doing,

"Aaah well, BUT...and the news papers, and israel and bush and and"
yet all most never "lately do you hear people who are otherwise logical intelligent muslims condem or clearly without a margin of dout distance them selves from radical and fundementalistic views.

point is you wont see them Support it, but very seldomly will you see them distance them selves from it either.

we have a saying that goes somethign in the region of "Den der tier samtykker" wich roughly translates too: he who keeps quiet, approves

oh and ps: I'd say the damn thing to any christian, jew, hindu or budist who acts this way.

I generally dont have any issue with any of the relions out there but "some times" i cant help but feel that logic often ends up the casuality in cases where religion is concered and well maybe thats not all that odd tho' since afterall most religions are centered around fiath and emotions, Logic ...well..you get the point

oh and lastly if your gona quote me quote this post in it's entirety.

How exactly would you 'distance yourself' i am genuinely curious what you expect to be happening

 

[swords]

Anyone who uses violence or the threat of violence to get what they want is a terrorist. This includes rebels, activist groups and governments...

 

[Roalith]

anyway believe what you want to believe.

Personally I'd say always challenge what you want to believe, but that's just me

 

[Olgaline]

How exactly would you 'distance yourself' i am genuinely curious what you expect to be happening

you just prooved my point tho didnt you ?

 

[Olgaline]

I also dont understand what you mean by "how" thats the easiest thing in the world.

say:
- any act of violence in the name of any religion is not ok,
- any urging or apeal of violence in the name of religion is not ok,
- any form of properganda or polarization towards other races or relions is not ok
- all relions have the right to co-exist there is no "one" true relion. (respect of another persons religion/beliefe)

- that all relions have to obiede by the law of a soveran nation, "even Islam"

This would be a nice start, and when murders or acts of terrorism occour, in the name of any relion go ahead and condem it, dont simply explain why, and dont dare tell me "it's there own fault because...."

 

[old.Tohtori]

we have a saying that goes somethign in the region of "Den der tier samtykker" wich roughly translates too: he who keeps quiet, approves

Not commenting too much on the issue, i said enough, but i have to say that is a bullsh*t saying. As is many other old ones.

If i don't protest something, it doesn't mean i approve it. It just means, i don't give a f*ck one way or other or don't feel the need to vocally try and change something that is fundamentally, unchangable.

 

[Olgaline]

well see there you go taking it out of context,
and altho i agree with you, unfortunatly too often this as prooven to be the case when it comes to the muslims i know, and yes these are my colleagues and friends even close friends where I've been dumbstruck to hear how "radical" some of there views have become.

I have given it some thought tho' and one theory I have is that when your a part of a minority or abroad from your decendant culture, you might tend to grasp harder at these values, religion and heritage.

I've seen this often first hand also in F.exp Africa when you meat expatriates from variouse countries,

 

[old.Tohtori]

well see there you go taking it out of context,
and altho i agree with you, unfortunatly too often this as prooven to be the case when it comes to the muslims i know, and yes these are my colleagues and friends even close friends where I've been dumbstruck to hear how "radical" some of there views have become.

Well, it's a saying, right...and...it's all there..right? So, it's not really out of context when i'm commenting on the saying...you see?

 

[Chronictank]

you just prooved my point tho didnt you ?

No we have been through this before and you have taken nothing from it, so i am trying a new tact and seeing what exactly you clasify as 'denouncing'

say:
- any act of violence in the name of any religion is not ok,
- any urging or apeal of violence in the name of religion is not ok,

You mean like this:
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Leaders condemn Iraq church bombs
or this:
BBC NEWS | England | London | Muslims denounce attack on priest
or this:
BBC NEWS | England | West Midlands | Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
maybe these:
BBC NEWS | Politics | UK Muslims issue bombings fatwa <- suggest you read that one
MCB

The very fact that these extremist view holding people turned on the Muslim Council of Britain should speak volumes to you;
BBC NEWS | Politics | Election 2005 | Protesters disrupt Muslim event

I could find more but i think you get the point, just because it doesn't get reported in the news doesn't mean it isn't happening

- any form of properganda or polarization towards other races or relions is not ok

Sorry but the BNP exists, they printed the danish cartoons TWICE despite knowing the reaction it would cause, the Sun regularly runs propoganda for various means (just look at the Mcann and Mcartney cases), various faiths have been demonised in both press and propoganda over time and Islam is no different

As i said previously, if you want free speech you have to have the shit aswell its a double edged sword

If you are refering to muslim bodies to stop the preaching of hate and instead focusing on tolerance;
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Muslims urged to fight terror
MCB
co-operative effort by Jewish and Muslim council
MCB

Maybe some events to do it;
MCB
MCB

- all relions have the right to co-exist there is no "one" true relion. (respect of another persons religion/beliefe)

People are free to believe what they want, you believe there is no "one" true religion, if i wanted to believe in Odin is the one true god i should be able to.
That is NOT the same as respecting others beliefs, you are enforcing your own on other people.
Under no circumstance should they force people to select a singular point of view regardless what it is

- that all relions have to obiede by the law of a soveran nation, "even Islam"

This would be a nice start, and when murders or acts of terrorism occour, in the name of any relion go ahead and condem it, dont simply explain why, and dont dare tell me "it's there own fault because...."

Proove to me that Muslim's in Britain want to break the law.... I remember this being discussed previously a while ago
As for own laws;
MCB
It was a request for a discussion for the possibility of inclusion of some civil (personal) laws to be included

On the issue of giving individuals choice of law but only in private and personal matters

 

[Olgaline]

First of all I've state my personal experiance with the muslims I know and have met.
secondly I've been talking about the broader perspective, what so why should i "proove" anything to you ?
and especially why should i proove what british muslims do or dont do when i live in denmark ?
Also I Never suggested that muslims break the law did I ? go back and read what i wrote..

and yet again you keep posting links, and threads and attack brittish and danish news papers,
when Already i said ALL relions ALL culters. and you say the danish cartoons ???
No it's not the "danish cartoons" it's cartoons published by one single danish news paper called jyllands posten"
I'm danish and dont assosiate me with those cartoons. Altho I'll say this, I'll always defend the right to publish it even if i might not aproove, the same as I'll defend your right to disaproove or demonstrate agianst it.
they were reprinted by the major danish new papers after a plot to assasinate one of the cartoonists was uncovered.
wich I also didnt find taste full. but thats my personal opinion, and I for one am proud to be part of a country where all have a right to free speach and a right to practice relion and to protest and demonstrate and where goverment and relion have long been seperated. and I'll defend that to my dieng breath.

Yet YOU personally never state that YOU dissaproove do you ?
but you'll sure as hell bring it to our attention and disaproove when the european media steps out of bound.

It's all fine and I apllaud the muslims orginizations that distance them selves from radicalism but thats not what I'm talking about is it?

I'm talking about the single individuals, when i meet and talk to them on a one to one basis or at birthdays, wedding ect you name it aka "on a personal level" becuase thats to me what counts, and where it matters.

lastly on the matter of a one true god, maybe I stated it some what wrongly, as i fully respec anyones right to worship and belive in a one true god. the problem for me occours when one relgion/cultur demands that it must be totalitarion, witrhout posibility of coexistance, Then and only then do i object to it. this goes for all, not mearly Islam. as in there can be only one true god under one nation without exeption.

 

[~Latency~]

when you're born in an islamic state, it's the law that you have to be a muslim? (to my knowledge) .. what kind of forced culture is that, remember reading a news story about a women who kept going to jail because she became a buddha or something? :O lolz

but the reason it feels like muslims don't dissaprove of terrorism, is as olgaline said, i know plenty of muslim people, none actually do dissaprove of it, a few even think they're doing their countries justice (tards) ..if the majority of muslims you know personally have this attitude, and on the whole it seems muslims don't care, then ofcourse people are gonna think they don't care ; o

 

[Olgaline]

on a side note tho'
I get just as pissoff when i hear people say f.exp "I dont them muslims" my general reation is huh? wtf do you mean? please show me a what "A muslim" looks like! and funny thing is often what you'll realize is they mean Arabs, and then you can just take it from there... but just the fact that you need to explain to some people that Islam is a relion and not a cultur or race.....