Judges can now dictate who has the right to have kids

[BloodOmen]

... Kind of

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23721893

Thoughts? Scouse come on, get the Scouse bus in gear.

The real question is where will it end? now that a legal first has been met, criminals next? sex offenders? chavs? or will it remain limited to people with learning difficulties.

 

[ECA]

eh?
Him and his gf are both learning disabled and have 1 kid, neither wants another kid but his mental capacity isn't such that he will remember to use contraceptions, so family said why u no snip.
Doctors then said we don't believe he has the mental capacity to make such a decision which meant a judge had to rule on it.

It isn't really as shocking a decision as you make it out to be

 

[BloodOmen]

eh?
Him and his gf are both learning disabled and have 1 kid, neither wants another kid but his mental capacity isn't such that he will remember to use contraceptions, so family said why u no snip.
Doctors then said we don't believe he has the mental capacity to make such a decision which meant a judge had to rule on it.

It isn't really as shocking a decision as you make it out to be

Well no but that isn't what I was driving at

 

[caLLous]

What were you driving at then? The thread title has little to nothing to do with the story.

 

[BloodOmen]

Meh you got me was trying to wind Scouse up, sat here bored, you could have let it run a bit further before ruining it tho in all fairness.

 

[Raven]

They should extend it to the feckless too.

There, that should do the trick.

 

[ECA]

But who's gonna fill the workhouses if we do that?

 

[Raven]

Cyclists.

 

[BloodOmen]

But who's gonna fill the workhouses if we do that?

Islamic extremists and rabid dogs that ride bikes obviously.

 

[Gwadien]

Speaking of kids, why don't you go entertain your kid rather than trying to wind up nerds?

 

[BloodOmen]

Speaking of kids, why don't you go entertain your kid rather than trying to wind up nerds?

Because he's asleep? they do that you know Gwadien.

 

[Scouse]

neither wants another kid

Doesn't say that in the article.

If neither want a kid, have been to the doctors and said "sterilise me" but the doctor said "I can't trust what you're asking for - please get it verified by the court" then I don't have a problem and that is the legal system covering doctors asses - which is a good thing.

If the parents/the NHS have dictated that they shouldn't have kids, but they don't know either way and want to keep the decision theirs, then it's not a good thing.

 

[BloodOmen]

Doesn't say that in the article.

If neither want a kid, have been to the doctors and said "sterilise me" but the doctor said "I can't trust what you're asking for - please get it verified by the court" then I don't have a problem and that is the legal system covering doctors asses - which is a good thing.

If the parents/the NHS have dictated that they shouldn't have kids, but they don't know either way and want to keep the decision theirs, then it's not a good thing.

WE HAVE LIFT OFF!

 

[Scouse]

WE HAVE LIFT OFF!

I'm glad my appearence makes you so happy Blood

 

[DaGaffer]

Doesn't say that in the article.

If neither want a kid, have been to the doctors and said "sterilise me" but the doctor said "I can't trust what you're asking for - please get it verified by the court" then I don't have a problem and that is the legal system covering doctors asses - which is a good thing.

If the parents/the NHS have dictated that they shouldn't have kids, but they don't know either way and want to keep the decision theirs, then it's not a good thing.

There's loads of legal precedent for the state mandating medical procedures where the person concerned isn't considered competent to make a decision, it just happens that in this case its a vasectomy. To be honest I'm extremely surprised this doesn't happen all the time.

This made me laugh though:

"They said the man, referred to as DE, could not be relied upon to use condoms or other birth control methods effectively to prevent pregnancy."

Doesn't that describe about half the population?

 

[rynnor]

Hmm - some of that story sounds a bit off:

"The birth of the couple's first child had had a "profound" effect on both families, and measures were taken to ensure there was no further pregnancy, including keeping the couple apart and supervising any contact between them.

Sounds like pets rather than people - if your family can decide to seperate you from your partner and have you sterilised what legal rights do you really have?

 

[Scouse]

Sounds like pets rather than people

Yeah. Wasn't happy about that either.

All they are is low enough IQ not to fit into our normalised (or traumatised) society...

 

[Embattle]

Good.

 

[Mabs]

its happened to women before just not men
i really dont have a problem with it, as long as its more than 1 person making the decision and its got review procedures etc

just need to extend it to chavs, lower class people, and foreigners

i dont know what they had or if its heriditary but i imagine that two disabled people having a kid the chance of that kid NOT being disabled is probably quite small

 

[Job]

Of all the people to decide this one I think a judge is the best guy for the job.

 

[soze]

Yeah. Wasn't happy about that either.

All they are is low enough IQ not to fit into our normalised (or traumatised) society...

It has nothing to do with not fitting in. If the couple can not even remember to use contraception despite not wanting more children then how can they look after a child? This was tho only fair option for all involved.

 

[Scouse]

despite not wanting more children

That's the bit that isn't clear, as I said in my first post...

 

[soze]

That's the bit that isn't clear, as I said in my first post...

"The Court of Protection in London has heard that DE does not want to become a father again.
But he could not be relied upon to use condoms or other birth control methods effectively to prevent pregnancy, the court was told."

It is right there in the story. There is no reason to believe this is not his wishes.

 

[Scouse]

It is right there in the story.

That's been updated since I last read it and includes a lot more detail. Story over tbfh.

 

[rynnor]

Not really - it sounded like they told him he would be kept seperated and supervised unless he had the snip - not exactly free choice.

 

[Ctuchik]

Doesn't that describe about half the population?

Probably more.

Though for most it's a matter of choice rather then forgetfulness.

I mean lets face it, the condom that you won't notice during sex doesn't exist.

 

[Tilda]

... Kind of

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23721893

Thoughts? Scouse come on, get the Scouse bus in gear.

The real question is where will it end? now that a legal first has been met, criminals next? sex offenders? chavs? or will it remain limited to people with learning difficulties.

This is not new news.
The court of protection has been around for a while now to "ratify" decisions where people don't have capacity. Doctors say "we want to do this because its in their best interests" and if the court agrees it says okay.
It relates to Mental Capacity, its not a general "who don't we want having children" as much as the Daily Mail might spin it that way.

 

[rynnor]

It relates to Mental Capacity, its not a general "who don't we want having children" as much as the Daily Mail might spin it that way.

This was the first case of ruling for male sterilisation - I think its a dodgy decision in that it opens the door to the past when disabled people were sterilised in large numbers - didn't die out until into the 1980s.