Joining the Army - Great fun

[Dukat]

Hey all

I wonder if I can ask for some help from you enlightend bunch I am in the very early stages of joining the army, I've been waiting for my college results thus far and have only recently got them sorted, I've contacted a recruiter and am booked up for a BARB test.

I've been given a form to fill out that needs completing before the barb test appointment, on one section of this form it has two boxes, one "commisioned officer" the other "non-commisioned officer". I had not really been briefed on weather or not I could join as an officer but I wanted to see if I could.

So before filling it out I phoned the number the recruiter gave me to try and find out. He said that I need GCSE's and A levels to be an officer, and when I asked if my Higher National Diploma would count he said 'no', with no explanation.

That was 15 minutes ago, I've since been onto an online chat session with an advisor to try and see if that was true or not, because to me it sounds like bs.

Here is a transcript of the chat session:

-------------------

13:30:57
System
Welcome Will ...

13:30:57
System
Connecting to server. Please wait...

13:30:57
System
Connected to britisharmy.ehosts.net

13:30:57
System
Initial Question/Comment: I do not know if the qualifications I have are sufficient to join as an officer. Are HND's counted? if so how many are needed?

13:31:07
System
Welcome to the British Army Online Careers Office

13:31:07
System
SSgt (Advisor) has joined this session!

13:31:07
System
Connected with SSgt (Advisor)

13:31:07
System
Welcome to the Online Office. Please be patient, the recruiters are chatting with up to 6 people at the same time. Ask your questions, but please give them time to respond.

13:32:17
SSgt (Advisor)
hi

13:32:25
You
hi there, just wondering if Higher national diploma's are counted towards the required qualifications to join as an officer?

13:32:37
SSgt (Advisor)
let me send the UCAS calculator

13:32:55
You
Thanks, I have recently been told that only GCSE's and A level's count, is this true?

13:34:17
SSgt (Advisor)
no

13:35:30
You
ok thanks, i only ask because I am in the early stages of joining but someone at an AFCO seems to think that this is so, is there anything I can do?

13:36:17
SSgt (Advisor)
they will consider it

13:36:37
SSgt (Advisor)
look at Para's maybe

13:37:28
You
ok, thanks, I have an application form to join - and I also have my BARB test booked, the form asks weather I want to join as an NCO or officer, after this is filled out can things be changed?

13:37:47
SSgt (Advisor)
yes they can

13:38:42
You
Ah right, so if i go along with this and fill the form out as if i want to join as an NCO, after the barb test can I then let someone know about my qualifications and possibly join as an officer?

13:38:57
SSgt (Advisor)
u could

13:39:06
You
great, thanks alot for your help

13:39:47
SSgt (Advisor)
ok

13:39:55
You
bye thanks again

13:39:59
System
The session has ended!

-----------------------

The thing is, should I go forward trusting only the information I have from an online chat session? One thing that I have learnt so far is that each of the recruiters has thier own version of the truth that seems to vary wildly from recruiter to recruiter. Is it true that I can go in under the guise of wanting to join as an NCO but then change that after my BARB test once someone notices that I have well over 300 UCAS points worth of qualifications? I just dont know this and there doesnt seem to be any reliable source to ask.

I'm in two minds about this, I would really like to join as an officer, mainly for the advantages that are offered both in pay, accomodation, prospects and all the rest of it, that said joining as an NCO might not be so bad.

All I am annoyed about is that the last 5 years worth of college courses seem to mean nothing to the recruiter at all, I would be rather cheesed off if I did join up as an NCO but found out later that I could well have joined up as an officer if I had of pushed a little harder.

As yet nothing is set in concrete - (apparently) there is no obligation to join even after the barb test, so if it all looks shit I can still just walk away with nothing gained and nothing lost.

The thing is, I have only have three GSCE's, and only one of these at grade C. I screwed school up good and proper but thought that I had made up for it with college. I've put my qualifications below so you can see what I have and better understand my position:

BTEC Diploma in Higher Education in IT (like an HND but better, supposedly)
BTEC National Diploma for IT Practitioners
Intermediate GNVQ in IT
GCSE Maths Grade C
GCSE English Grade D
GCSE Science Grade D

Apparently the btec national diploma is worth 180 UCAS points, and the Diploma in Higher education is worth around 280 (afaik). As I say, I am weak on the GCSE's but surely this is something that can be remedied? I would've thought that if GCSE's are the only thing holding me back then they would have said to go and retake them and come back with three or four grade C's.

So how do you think I should proceed? I'm tempted to do as I said in the chat session, do the BARB test under an NCO application and see what happens after that, however I am anxious that after the BARB test the NCO application will mean that joining up as an officer is completely off the cards and that it is set in stone.

Any help much appreciated

 

[Trem]

Just send them the demo of last nights match with a note saying 'phear me for I aer teh leet, n00bs' I reckon that will get you in as any rank.

Good luck chum whatever happens.

 

[Xtro]

1. Do you have a recruiting office near you? Surely there is one in Norwich (your profile says Norfolk). Go in, talk to a human being face to face who cant fob you off and if needs be can ask a superior in the same office.

2. Its been a long time since my involvement in the Armed Forces but surely the HND will count a la UCAS points system?

3. I would tick both options, yes you can go for a commission after you join the Army anyways.

4. Leading on from 3, perhaps you might want to suss the Army lifestyle out for a year before fully committing to a Com. You can forget getting experience in six months as that's just "noddy time", ie. your basic training.

5. RAF office age limit is 28. I presume Army will be around the same so you don't have to rush this decision.

Finally 6. Why the Army? Considered the other forces at all? If you don't get the chance of a Com in the Army I would suggest the RAF.

Hope this helps, I left the Armed Forces in the '90s to work in the MoD in the '90s so am well out of touch.

 

[Damini]

I was going to sign up when I was 16. Back then, you only needed 5 GCSEs at grade C or higher to enter as an officer. This A-Level requirement thing might be new. If it is still just the GCSE requirements, then why not take a year out to do some evening courses, and work during the day to bide you over?

 

[Calaen]

No Idea mate, but as Trem has said already you are already part of a crack squad. Go to your local Army careers Im sure they will let you in with your Aussie accent.

 

[mank!]

your BTEC should count as the equivalent of three a-levels i believe? surely they can't refuse you on the basis you chose to do a different course?

dunno if it'd be any help but perhaps you could get your college tutor to back you up on the entry requirements?

 

[Aada]

Ok this is what happens before you join the Army i never went for Officers as i didn't want to be a pen pusher.

Anyway after you're barb test you will get told you score and what Regiments you can join Infantry/Tanks/Artillery/Logistics/Engineers and all the other 100s of different roles you can do.

So after you have decided what you want to join you will have 2 Interviews at seperate dates one with a SGT and the other with a Officer the interviews will last around an hour and they will ask you every question under the sun.

Word of advise don't go unshaven if you are joining the Army you might aswell get used to shaving every morning because in training you will be inspected every morning and if you are pulled up for being unshaven (a big no no in the Army) you will either get 1 of 2 punishments.

1. you will have a staff parade in front of the Guard Room/Company night watch where you will have to be fucking gleaming or you'll be sent back to come back in 1 hour

2. you will be beasted.

Anyway back to topic.

After you're interviews if you are luck enough to get through you will then go to 1 of 3 selection centres around the country (Mine was in Litchfield if you live in the Midlands) and you will have medical tests and fitness such as how much you can lift (holding a full Ammo box for 2 mins) and you will do a 1.5 mile run and must complete it under a certain amount of time depending on what part of the Army you will want to join.

You will spend 1.5 days at the centre and after the 1.5 mile run which is on the 2nd day you will then dress up in a Tie/shirt and all the rest of it and go and see an Officer and you will be told if you have passed.

If you haven't the recruitment office will make you another date ASAP so you can fix what went wrong.

If you have then you will go back to the recruitment office and tell them the good news, a week-2 weeks later the office will get you down there to swear you're Oath of Allegiance and you will get a date as to when you go to the Training Regiment.

You will get given you're Army number and you should drill this number into you're head (i still remember mine and use it for passwords etc) as you will be asked for it time and time again at the Training Regiment. Failure to remember it usually resulted in 20 push ups.

You'll arrive at the Training Regiment shitting you're pants like everyone else and you should be because its a scary place tbh. Depending on what you're staff are like they will either

A. once you're parents are gone make you change into your PT gear and beast you for an hour or two.

B. Let you chill out and find you're bearings and let you get to know you're room mates who if you stick with the course will turn into the best friends you will ever have.

So then day 2 will mostly comprise of paper work and getting you're uniform etc etc and hair cuts (yes you will be made to have a shaved head and its funny watching all the David Beckham look alikes have it all shaved off)

In the first 1-2 weeks you will have people leaving who can't hack it (we had people wanting to leave after the first day lol) and the people that are left are the ones the Army wants people with abit of spine.

The remaining 10 weeks or so will be INTENSE both mental and Physcially and you will be pushed to the limit and feel like snapping and telling them to fuck off don't do this as it usually results in you running around for a few hours until you feel better ^^

If one guy fucks up in you're platoon they are made to pay by standing and watching while you get beasted its all part of making you work as a team and it does work although at the time it will not feel like it

If i can give you one peice of advice that you should START doing now is TRAIN, run a few miles a day and build you're fitness up while you can as if you have not done any exercise for a few years you be FUCKED when you get there and the training will be MUCH MUCH HARDER.

Sorry for the long post but you reminded me of when i joined up any questions PLEASE ask.

You're lucky in the fact you're phase 1 training will be 12 weeks.. mine was from January-December 1 year but it was the best year of my life and i made friends that i will have for life and memories i will always remember.

 

[Aada]

If you plan on joining the Infantry (i did because i wanted the action) ask any questions about Phase 2

 

[mank!]

not intended as a dig, aada, but that read like the start of full metal jacket

 

[Aada]

not intended as a dig, aada, but that read like the start of full metal jacket

lol well that was all wrote from my experience when i joined.

 

[Xtro]

Good job I know what beasting means, I hope the OP does or he will be plugging his arse with a coke bottle.

 

[Dukat]

Cheers for all of the replies

1. Do you have a recruiting office near you? Surely there is one in Norwich (your profile says Norfolk). Go in, talk to a human being face to face who cant fob you off and if needs be can ask a superior in the same office.

2. Its been a long time since my involvement in the Armed Forces but surely the HND will count a la UCAS points system?

3. I would tick both options, yes you can go for a commission after you join the Army anyways.

4. Leading on from 3, perhaps you might want to suss the Army lifestyle out for a year before fully committing to a Com. You can forget getting experience in six months as that's just "noddy time", ie. your basic training.

5. RAF office age limit is 28. I presume Army will be around the same so you don't have to rush this decision.

Finally 6. Why the Army? Considered the other forces at all? If you don't get the chance of a Com in the Army I would suggest the RAF.

Hope this helps, I left the Armed Forces in the '90s to work in the MoD in the '90s so am well out of touch.

Will answer these one by one so its clearer

1. Yep, the recruiter that I was talking about (the one who thinks HND's do not count towards officer requirements) is from the Norwich office. I went to the online chat place mainly because its the only other place that I could think of asking. The office itself is just basically a small office with a desk with the recruiter in question sitting behind it, not even sure if there is an officer there or if this staff sergeant runs the show, the thing is I'm not sure if pissing the staff sergeant off by asking for his CO is a good idea, couldnt he make things difficult if he thinks I'm being a twat?

2. yea, I'm 99.9% sure that the HND counts, but being the potential recruit in this situation means that its going to be very hard to tell a staff sergeant how to do his job without making it sound like thats what I'm doing I've already asked him straight "doesnt my HND count?" and his reply was a straight no, I should've queried it then and there but i just couldnt think how to phrase it, I was mostly thinking "wtf?" but he ended the call before I could really say anything.

3. I wondered about this, or atleast just ticking the commissioned officer one, but when the recruiter see's this it might cause problems and end up with him thinking that I'm wasting thier time. what I'm thinking now is just leaving it unticked and going to the next meeting (the date I'm supposed to be doing the barb test) and seeing if I can just talk to him about this and get it straightend out.

4. Yea, I thought about this too, not too sure whats the best idea atm really.

5. Aye cheers I definately wont be rushing this decision!

6. Well, this is a topic of some debate atm, I'm definately going to go and have a word with the RAF, but the army is kinda what I've set my sights on, mainly because of family tradition, my dad's side of the family has been 'army' for the last three generations, my dad was in northern ireland, my grandad fought in WW2 and my great grandad in ww1. That said I think I'll go and have a word with them after my BARB test and see what they say.

Thanks alot though, those questions have definately got me thinking

<snip>

Hehe cheers Aada, that has answered a few other questions I've been pondering!

How often did you get beasted? and when was it that you joined up?

 

[Escape]

Want to join the winning team? Have a clear direction and enjoy the support of the locals? Join the Taliban.

Want to live in uncertainty, suffer equipment and food shortages, feel unappreciated by your country? Join the (British) Army.

 

[Paradroid]

Hey all
...
I've been given a form to fill out that needs completing before the barb test appointment, on one section of this form it has two boxes, one "commisioned officer" the other "non-commisioned officer". I had not really been briefed on weather or not I could join as an officer but I wanted to see if I could.
...
13:37:28
You
ok, thanks, I have an application form to join - and I also have my BARB test booked, the form asks weather I want to join as an NCO or officer, after this is filled out can things be changed?
...
The thing is, I have only have three GSCE's, and only one of these at grade C. I screwed school up good and proper but thought that I had made up for it with college. I've put my qualifications below so you can see what I have and better understand my position:

BTEC Diploma in Higher Education in IT (like an HND but better, supposedly)
BTEC National Diploma for IT Practitioners
Intermediate GNVQ in IT
GCSE Maths Grade C
GCSE English Grade D
GCSE Science Grade D

...
Any help much appreciated

Commissioned Officer positions are limited and usually require a University degree - mainly because so many well educated graduates still apply these days.

Having an HND is nothing (sorry) considering the competition for these positions, especially if your HND is in a tech subject. You'll be seen as one step up from a grunt, you're a semi-educated grunt.

They'll see the University graduate as more fully rounded (education wise), which is highlighted by your mis-use of the word "weather", when you actually meant "whether". A simple thing, but they'd expect a commissioned officer to have a good understanding of the English language (with excellent grades to boot) - what with all those lives at stake and such.

Why would anyone want to join the forces anyway? It's not like a Monty Python sketch...people kill people, and, there's an awful lot of shouting that goes on.

 

[Paradroid]

Ok this is what happens before you join the Army i never went for Officers as i didn't want to be a pen pusher.

Anyway after you're barb test you will get told you score and what Regiments you can join Infantry/Tanks/Artillery/Logistics/Engineers and all the other 100s of different roles you can do.

So after you have decided what you want to join you will have 2 Interviews at seperate dates one with a SGT and the other with a Officer the interviews will last around an hour and they will ask you every question under the sun.

Word of advise don't go unshaven if you are joining the Army you might aswell get used to shaving every morning because in training you will be inspected every morning and if you are pulled up for being unshaven (a big no no in the Army) you will either get 1 of 2 punishments.

1. you will have a staff parade in front of the Guard Room/Company night watch where you will have to be fucking gleaming or you'll be sent back to come back in 1 hour

2. you will be beasted.

Anyway back to topic.

After you're interviews if you are luck enough to get through you will then go to 1 of 3 selection centres around the country (Mine was in Litchfield if you live in the Midlands) and you will have medical tests and fitness such as how much you can lift (holding a full Ammo box for 2 mins) and you will do a 1.5 mile run and must complete it under a certain amount of time depending on what part of the Army you will want to join.

You will spend 1.5 days at the centre and after the 1.5 mile run which is on the 2nd day you will then dress up in a Tie/shirt and all the rest of it and go and see an Officer and you will be told if you have passed.

If you haven't the recruitment office will make you another date ASAP so you can fix what went wrong.

If you have then you will go back to the recruitment office and tell them the good news, a week-2 weeks later the office will get you down there to swear you're Oath of Allegiance and you will get a date as to when you go to the Training Regiment.

You will get given you're Army number and you should drill this number into you're head (i still remember mine and use it for passwords etc) as you will be asked for it time and time again at the Training Regiment. Failure to remember it usually resulted in 20 push ups.

You'll arrive at the Training Regiment shitting you're pants like everyone else and you should be because its a scary place tbh. Depending on what you're staff are like they will either

A. once you're parents are gone make you change into your PT gear and beast you for an hour or two.

B. Let you chill out and find you're bearings and let you get to know you're room mates who if you stick with the course will turn into the best friends you will ever have.

So then day 2 will mostly comprise of paper work and getting you're uniform etc etc and hair cuts (yes you will be made to have a shaved head and its funny watching all the David Beckham look alikes have it all shaved off)

In the first 1-2 weeks you will have people leaving who can't hack it (we had people wanting to leave after the first day lol) and the people that are left are the ones the Army wants people with abit of spine.

The remaining 10 weeks or so will be INTENSE both mental and Physcially and you will be pushed to the limit and feel like snapping and telling them to fuck off don't do this as it usually results in you running around for a few hours until you feel better ^^

If one guy fucks up in you're platoon they are made to pay by standing and watching while you get beasted its all part of making you work as a team and it does work although at the time it will not feel like it

If i can give you one peice of advice that you should START doing now is TRAIN, run a few miles a day and build you're fitness up while you can as if you have not done any exercise for a few years you be FUCKED when you get there and the training will be MUCH MUCH HARDER.

Sorry for the long post but you reminded me of when i joined up any questions PLEASE ask.

You're lucky in the fact you're phase 1 training will be 12 weeks.. mine was from January-December 1 year but it was the best year of my life and i made friends that i will have for life and memories i will always remember.

Was there a love interest, and a montage half-way through, 'cause I'm sure I've seen that movie.

not intended as a dig, aada, but that read like the start of full metal jacket

...that's the one! (or one of them at least....)

 

[Dukat]

Commissioned Officer positions are limited and usually require a University degree - mainly because so many well educated graduates still apply these days.

Having an HND is nothing (sorry) considering the competition for these positions, especially if your HND is in a tech subject. You'll be seen as one step up from a grunt, you're a semi-educated grunt.

They'll see the University graduate as more fully rounded (education wise), which is highlighted by your mis-use of the word "weather", when you actually meant "whether". A simple thing, but they'd expect a commissioned officer to have a good understanding of the English language (with excellent grades to boot) - what with all those lives at stake and such.

Why would anyone want to join the forces anyway? It's not like a Monty Python sketch...people kill people, and, there's an awful lot of shouting that goes on.

Thats a little more clear, cheers. I wish they'd just say that you need to be a uni graduate though.

The typo was down to it being a chat room though, in a letter or formal document I tend not to make mistakes like that I actually corrected part of the advisor's chat before I posted it here, because of that it seemed more like an informal discussion, as such I wasnt concentrating so much on my spelling as much as trying to get the answers to the question's I required.

They actually state it on HND assignments that spelling and grammar is 100%, otherwise its an automatic fail (afaik), so if my spelling was poor I would not have passed the course. Like I say though I dont see getting a couple of GCSE's as a problem, if they would just say that instead of talking in riddles I think things would be so much simpler.

 

[Trem]

In all fairness credit needs to be given to Aada for taking time to do an uber big post to help out someone he doesn't know, I aren't going to give him any rep points or owt like that due to him liking Man Utd, but I think the guy did a nice post.

Basically Pikey go for it and good luck and don't lend throd any guns.

 

[throdgrain]

I agree Trem, except about the bit re lending me guns ...