jesus camp

[Chronictank]

wow you are clueless.

You think dinosaurs are a theory LOL.

goto the natural history museum and see the skeleten of a big fucking theory T-Rex ;D

FACT.

Tam

I was going to post something abrasive to mock your obvious inability to read something and undestand what it means,
but i dont think i will.

I simply suggest this, before you mock someone at least make sure you have a valid point that has something to do with the quote so you dont make an arse of yourself

Note: I do not say that the gaps in scientific knowledge prove the existence of a god. I merely say that until science comes with an explanation, there is no need to dismiss the religious explanation as wrong.

Exactly

 

[fettoken]

Sick fucking bastards those Americans....

 

[Jeremiah]

Feel sorry for christians and all the other 100's of religeons who think 'they are right' and all the others are wrong.

Fucking retarded bigots all of them.

Go read your bible cus its totally accurate ofc.

oops no mention of dinosaurs. Must suck hard to realise your whole life beliefs just got smoked.

religeon is as offensive as racism.

Tam

Tam... there are dinosaurs in the Bible. We all have our free say, but if we are going to discuss things (or argue things, this is FH after all ), lets make sure we are informed to some degree.

 

[Mojo]

I merely say that until science comes with an explanation, there is no need to dismiss the religious explanation as wrong.

We generally dont go through life beleiving things just becuase we cannot make proof either way that they are true or false. Can you prove your gf hasn't cheated on you? If not you must always consider the fact that she has. (and in theory she could have) but we generally don't deal with life this way.

Because the god squad cannot prove the existence of their god they use the weak excuse of "prove he doesnt exist" thats such a cop out weak arse thing to say and the only thing that sience needs to explain is why half the fucking plant beleives in something no one can prove actually exists.

 

[noblok]

Ah, but for those who believe in a god, there is sufficent proof. The problem is that their proof isn't scientific proof and thus not convincing enough for you. While I understand this, being an atheist myself, their position is a defendable as well. It doesn't cause any problems either, as it doesn't undermine the authority of science. Well, it may indirectly do so, but only because it brings certain gaps in the scientific explanation to the attention, by filling them with a godly intervention.

 

[Blackjack]

Ok, that was.. well.. alittle scary.
Between Jesus camp and Coran school, there is a shit load of religious warriors just waiting to get started. If people don't get a grip on reality soon there is bound to be a huge war at some point.
Cba to drag myself into the whole god/no god discussion. But fundamentalism be it Islamic or Christian is bad, really bad.

 

[Huntingtons]

read about this girl in denmark from iran, who had to, in her school (private girl school etc), burn the stars and stripes (or atleast watch it) i think she was nine at that point www.memritv.org and laugh at their vids (try and find the female special force squad dismantling bombs in burka etc. )

 

[Jeremiah]

Ah, but for those who believe in a god, there is sufficent proof. The problem is that their proof isn't scientific proof and thus not convincing enough for you. While I understand this, being an atheist myself, their position is a defendable as well. It doesn't cause any problems either, as it doesn't undermine the authority of science. Well, it may indirectly do so, but only because it brings certain gaps in the scientific explanation to the attention, by filling them with a godly intervention.

I understand and really appreciate what you are saying Blokkie, and this isnt a post to disagree. Its just to say, while some people are swayed by science away from belief in a God, some are swayed by science towards belief in a God as well. Such science may be fact or theory, but I believe science can in some ways work with faith rather than against it. This obviously isnt unilateral, but I guess I'm one of the minoroty that holds science to reinforce some of the things I already believed

 

[liloe]

Feel sorry for christians and all the other 100's of religeons who think 'they are right' and all the others are wrong.

Fucking retarded bigots all of them.

Go read your bible cus its totally accurate ofc.

oops no mention of dinosaurs. Must suck hard to realise your whole life beliefs just got smoked.

religeon is as offensive as racism.

Tam

As always you're spouting a big load of crap, cause actually - and there is scientific proof of this - the bible is historically very accurate.

Seeing the stuff you say I'm sure you've read in the bible lots of times to back up the stuff you say.

I'm a christian and I believe in what I say, but I'm not a fundamentalist. There is quite a huge difference between believing in what you say and forcing people to believe. You can all have your opinion if you want and I'm very open to discuss mine and explain why I believe, even if half of the forum will then say I'm a numbnut.

I'm not a conservative christian either, I got no problems listening to Heavy Metal, saying fuck,getting drunk or doing other stuff some people would call me doomed for =)) I think the main impact is that I'm trying to be nice when I can and that I believe in an afterlife. =)

So now that I explained what I am, some would call me a fundamentalist already cause sure, I don't accept that the base of what I believe is wrong =)) But then again, does anybody here think I'd force other people to believe what I do? ^^ Don't think so =)

And btw, saying that "religion is as offensive as racism" is pretty rich coming from you pom. Also before you get started on Chronic, read what he wrote please.

 

[tamtap]

As always you're spouting a big load of crap, cause actually - and there is scientific proof of this - the bible is historically very accurate.

Seeing the stuff you say I'm sure you've read in the bible lots of times to back up the stuff you say.

I'm a christian and I believe in what I say, but I'm not a fundamentalist. There is quite a huge difference between believing in what you say and forcing people to believe. You can all have your opinion if you want and I'm very open to discuss mine and explain why I believe, even if half of the forum will then say I'm a numbnut.

I'm not a conservative christian either, I got no problems listening to Heavy Metal, saying fuck,getting drunk or doing other stuff some people would call me doomed for =)) I think the main impact is that I'm trying to be nice when I can and that I believe in an afterlife. =)

So now that I explained what I am, some would call me a fundamentalist already cause sure, I don't accept that the base of what I believe is wrong =)) But then again, does anybody here think I'd force other people to believe what I do? ^^ Don't think so =)

And btw, saying that "religion is as offensive as racism" is pretty rich coming from you pom. Also before you get started on Chronic, read what he wrote please.

Historically accurate LOL. You are one of the sheep who just got smoked.

Please give chapter and verse of the T-Rex appearance as i dont see it. 'And lo jesus parted the waves and got 1 shotted by a terradactyl'

Your not very 'christian' in your language either, so'k though i forgive you. You on the other hand better get on your knees and beg for forgiveness o else you be on a 1 stop trip to hades (paris).

I think you got a boner for me also as you add on every one of my postings but as a christian your vicar/priest/noob/cleric/fuckwit will tell you that you will burn in the fires of hell man s3x sopls try and stop. Hail mary's may help.

Tam

 

[liloe]

Historically accurate LOL. You are one of the sheep who just got smoked.

Please give chapter and verse of the T-Rex appearance as i dont see it. 'And lo jesus parted the waves and got 1 shotted by a terradactyl'

Your not very 'christian' in your language either, so'k though i forgive you. You on the other hand better get on your knees and beg for forgiveness o else you be on a 1 stop trip to hades (paris).

I think you got a boner for me also as you add on every one of my postings but as a christian your vicar/priest/noob/cleric/fuckwit will tell you that you will burn in the fires of hell man s3x sopls try and stop. Hail mary's may help.

Tam

So basically "Math for beginners" is an inaccurate book cause Taylor is not mentioned? Ok

I would've said that to anyone posting here.

My language is not really bad, is it?

Calling a speaker of my religion a fuckwit is teh rox aswell.

If you want it exactly though, there is mentioning of the Leviathan and a Behemoth in the bible, also Dragons, whereas some of these are meant figurative.

But knowing that you give a shit I won't go deeper into that =)

EDIT: btw, I'm flattered, 2 quotes of me in your sig, wow. You should still write that the first one is from when you insulted everybody in /gu, ups....did I reveal smth secret?

 

[pip]

Sad stuff religion starts wars best of out the shit

 

[Jeremiah]

Stuff

I cant believe your parents let you post this late

 

[Raven]

Go read your bible cus its totally accurate ofc.

actually quite a bit of it is accurate history of the area etc, ofc its full of rubbish too but its been changed and translated so many times over the last 1500 years (or whatever) its bound to be wrong in the most part. i dont believe in god but i have read the bible and found it to be quite informative.

back o/t. i think this sort of camp is only a small step away from the type of hysteria caused in muslim camps. pretty worrying stuff.

 

[old.Tohtori]

He's actually right!

The bible doesn't mention a dinosaur...

But it does mention a dragon, a seamonster, a 7 headed beast and all sorts of nasties

 

[Zegas]

They look just like muslim fanatics, like any religious fanatics who claim to be superior to any other religion's people

 

[crispy]

No mention in all the mainstream religions there wasnt dinosaurs either
Also scientist have been wrong countless times, but i dont see you ignoring everything you believe to be true through someone elses discovieries because they once through the world was flat.

I understand your reasoning here, because why should i abandon my whole relegion just because some passge in my holy book is false in some way. Only problem about this in regard is that people who are christian believe in the bible as it is the work of god. God's book, he created it. But theres 'mistakes' and stuff like that in it. Now for the paradox the believers have to face: Our God can't make mistakes - but yet there mistakes in his works.

Some people can't handle that and that is a problem. And thats why Tamtap could say

oops no mention of dinosaurs. Must suck hard to realise your whole life beliefs just got smoked.

But i would never say anyone should quit their relegion over one stupid paradox Thats up to themselves to figure a way around

Wich leads me on say one of the fundamental differences between relegion and science as i see it:

Science is dynamic. Theories change as you discover more and more about the world.
Religion is static. Stuff like the genesis etc is how it is written. Doesnt change as you discover stuff that might contradict it.

Just because a theory have been proven wrong or insufficient doesnt mean that the whole concept of science is wrong.

This ignoring the fact the most theories, exactly what they are.. theories are just as fragile as following a religion.
As the majority of things are not 100% conclusive, just backed by a majority so you are pretty much doing the same thing by putting "faith" into peoples findings

This is where you are wrong. A theory isnt just some concept about a matter that a couple of scientists make up and try to convince the rest of the world about. Taken from wiki:

In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it often does in other contexts. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from and/or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations that is predictive, logical and testable. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative, and subject to corrections or inclusion in a yet wider theory. Commonly, a large number of more specific hypotheses may be logically bound together by just one or two theories. As a general rule for use of the term, theories tend to deal with much broader sets of universals than do hypotheses, which ordinarily deal with much more specific sets of phenomena or specific applications of a theory.

 

[noblok]

Wich leads me on say one of the fundamental differences between relegion and science as i see it:

Science is dynamic. Theories change as you discover more and more about the world.
Religion is static. Stuff like the genesis etc is how it is written. Doesnt change as you discover stuff that might contradict it.

Incorrect. The Catholic Church is no longer the same as it was in the Middle Ages. An important part of this was Luther's reformation and the catholic contra-reformation. I'm not an expert on the history of the Catholic Church, but I'm sure there are many other examples (think of the conflict between the more and less social(ist) Catholics e.g.).

There's also the God of the gaps view, which by definition is subject to evolution.

Edit: Just to add; if I understand the protestant view correctly, this is also subject to evolution, since it says that it's up to every individual to interpret the Bible in a way s/he thinks appropriate. This interpretation can change, through discussions for example.

 

[Gorbachioo]

All religions are bullshit. Everyone who believe in them are stupid. Sorry but thats just how it is

Im not saying that religion is 100% bad, there are some good things in them. But they are all based on a lie.



WAKE UP PEOPLE. STOP BEING SO FUCKING STUPID k?

 

[Chronictank]

-snip -

Remember tho, the bible (which seems to be the context of all this) is not in its original state, it has been changed over the years. Be it though translation (every translation will have minor differences, which turn into major changes), or blatant editing like the church did under Henry.
The only known original copy is locked in the Vatican vaults which arent viewable by the public for obvious reasons, but sadly they were locked away from all but a select few. So its impossible to actually confirm or otherwise that the bible as we currently know it hasnt been altered.

Also alot of religious leaders preach what they think the text mean, unfortunately people nowdays rather than picking up a book will just go on what someone else says (perfect breeding ground for terrorism, more rescently Islam has been manipulated enough to justify things, i can almost garuntee the people blowing themselves up have never actually read a translated version of the qu'ran. If they had they never would have agreed to it).

There is stuff in religious books that people back then couldnt possibly have known because we are only finding it out today, i think that alot of it has been misinterpreted thoughout the years when we only today are working out how things work. Not so long ago a physicist called Dr Busaille i think it was showed parallels between our knowledge today and text in the qu'ran (holy book for muslims), ill dig up a link later as i think i got the name wrong

Edit: found it , i got the name wrong sorry ><
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Bucaille

Above is just 1 point for people who laugh and point, you arent as enlightened as you think you are. I did a report on this a while back and made it as impartial as i possibly could ill post it here if i can find it on my old floppy disk's.
Ironically i didnt really beleive in a "god", and only followed religion for my parents sake, but based on my own research and findings i changed my outlook on things, i am not saying you should take my word for it you should go out and find out for yourself. Following someone elses word for it is plain stupid, which alot of you including the above poster i suspect are in fact doing regardless what you believe in.

A good quote to conclude on i think is when i talked to a guy who was researching his thesis, i hope it turns out unbiased as he very obviously was a christian
"how can you look up into the sky on a clear night, and say that was all by accident"

 

[Aiteal]

For some reason, the most vocal Christians amoung us never mention the Beatitudes.
But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings.
And of course that's Moses, not Jesus.
i haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.
"Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom?
"Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon?
Give me a break!

Kurt Vonnegut - a man without a country

Kinda sums its up for me.
The religious right in America (and elsewhere), concentrate on the fire and brimstone aspects of the old testament, and never stress Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness.
These people are about as christian as my garden shed.

 

[noblok]

All religions are bullshit. Everyone who believe in them are stupid. Sorry but thats just how it is

As I see it, you're thinking as follows:

Premise 1: All religion is based on a lie
Premise 2: Everyone who believes a lie is stupid (needed for consistent reasoning)
Conclusion: Everyone who believes in a religion is stupid.


Question 1: What lie, exactly, are they based on and how would you define the concept of a lie?

Question 2: My second premise is required to draw the logical conclusion from "religion is based on a lie" to "everyone who believes in a religion is stupid. Is it true though that people who believe in a lie are necessarily stupid? How does misguided or misinformed sound?

Question 3: Would you call Einstein stupid?

 

[liloe]

All religions are bullshit. Everyone who believe in them are stupid. Sorry but thats just how it is

Im not saying that religion is 100% bad, there are some good things in them. But they are all based on a lie.



WAKE UP PEOPLE. STOP BEING SO FUCKING STUPID k?

I could take that as personal insult, but I could also take it as inability of yours to discuss your PoV in a more grown up manner.

 

[noblok]

As I see it, you're thinking as follows:

Premise 1: All religion is based on a lie
Premise 2: Everyone who believes a lie is stupid (needed for consistent reasoning)
Conclusion: Everyone who believes in a religion is stupid.

Doh, I missed a premise
"premise 3: If you believe in something, you also believe everything it's based on" (or, you could change premise 1 to "If you believe in a religion, you also believe the lie it's based on," but then I edit your sentence. Therefore adding the third premise seems the more correct thing to do.)

 

[Gorbachioo]

I could take that as personal insult, but I could also take it as inability of yours to discuss your PoV in a more grown up manner.

Usually i would explain my view better than i did now, but im not in the mood for a religion debate right now

For the jesus freaks: take my word for it or waste your life on garbage. Either way works for me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hey hey hey!!!

What's with this "jesus freaks" ?!

It's not like there's only christianity in the world...

 

[Jeremiah]

Usually i would explain my view better than i did now, but im not in the mood for a religion debate right now

For the jesus freaks: take my word for it or waste your life on garbage. Either way works for me.

Can you think of any aspect of any faith that you would consider "garbage" that people would waste their life on? From my view, I cant understand that just because we believe in a God means we waste our life more than those who dont believe. What exactly are those who believe in a God (or other supernatural being) missing out on?