News Italian Troops to patrol major Cities.

[Aoami]

Its fucked up. Do you guys REALLY feel safe surrounded with a bunch of pumped up soldiers with heavy guns around you? Its a true symbol of false security.

And whats next? A pickpocketthief doing his thing in the street, not seeing the soldiers, who's in fact is not really trained as the police, and gets shot to the death by a bunch of bullets from a heavy automatic. Is that really what we want?

I really cant see a good reason to have soldiers patrolling the streets.

Shouldn't be pickpocketing then should he!

 

[tierk]

Shouldn't be pickpocketing then should he!

The point he makes is valid regardless. Soldiers are trained to fight battles and win wars and Police are trained to detect crime and apprehend criminals.

 

[Raven]

And whats next? A pickpocketthief doing his thing in the street, not seeing the soldiers, who's in fact is not really trained as the police, and gets shot to the death by a bunch of bullets from a heavy automatic. Is that really what we want?

Yes I do actually

 

[Sparx]

The point he makes is valid regardless. Soldiers are trained to fight battles and win wars and Police are trained to detect crime and apprehend criminals.

How generalist is that!

Peace keeping forces dont jsut shoot people, there are a very strict set of rules to follow and believe me shooting someone is the very very last resort which no-one wants to go down. Like i said before i done the training so i know whats involved and so many of you are totally off the mark with your sweeping statements

 

[Sparx]

Also jsut to be pedantic, not all soldiers are trained to kill. What about the chefs? or drivers? or mechanics? see my point?

 

[Mey]

The point he makes is valid regardless. Soldiers are trained to fight battles and win wars and Police are trained to detect crime and apprehend criminals.

What about the Military Police?

 

[Golena]

I think too many people here are basing their perceptions of military training purely on what they saw during the last Rambo movie tbh.

I imagine that your average chavvy yob would stop doing whatever it was the army wanted him to stop doing before they needed to resort to automatic machine gun fire.

 

[tierk]

How generalist is that!

Was trying to keep it as simple as possible really and tbh i didnt think that it would need explaining.

Peace keeping forces dont jsut shoot people, there are a very strict set of rules to follow and believe me shooting someone is the very very last resort which no-one wants to go down....

Note the key words in your statement above

Peace keeping forces....

We aint living in a war zone, as much as you people go on like it is.

Like i said before i done the training so i know whats involved and so many of you are totally off the mark with your sweeping statements

I couldnt careless how much training that you get it aint training in crime detection or arresting people now is it?

What about the Military Police?

Err sorry but i dont know if you noticed or not they are called MILITARY Police???

See the difference?

 

[tierk]

I think everyone probably knows i have pretty extreme views on how we should deal with criminals and the fact that the justice system is in severe need of a overhaul. However, putting the army on the streets is not the solution to these problems.

 

[soze]

Soilders have rules of engagement and as such if they shoot someone who was pick pocketing they would get arrested for murder just like anyone else. While im not sure i want soilders on my street i do not think having them there would mean inocent people getting shoot.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Haha. It's the military, not the police.

In Germany something like this is forbidden by the constitution. One time they used 2 Tornados to do some footage of demonstrators, was a good scandal.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I really cant see a good reason to have soldiers patrolling the streets.

There is none, unless you voted for Berlusconi.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

How generalist is that!

Peace keeping forces dont jsut shoot people, there are a very strict set of rules to follow and believe me shooting someone is the very very last resort which no-one wants to go down. Like i said before i done the training so i know whats involved and so many of you are totally off the mark with your sweeping statements

It's as generalist as what you say. You're generalizing your experience: all soldiers are like this, even in foreign countries.

Grats I guess.

 

[tierk]

Soilders have rules of engagement and as such if they shoot someone who was pick pocketing they would get arrested for murder just like anyone else.......

Yes i am sure that they would but why not just let the Police do the job they supposed to do and the Army do thers?

While im not sure i want soilders on my street i do not think having them there would mean inocent people getting shoot.

At no point do i suggest that the army, if they patrolled the streets, would actively do so - shoot innocent civilians - but it is not unheard of.

Lee Clegg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know people hate the Wiki quotes but i cba to look for more.

I know his conviction was quashed but its not like the people that died that day died of mysterious causes, they were after all shot to death.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I know people hate the Wiki quotes but i cba to look for more.

Statistics say that Wiki is as accurate or inaccurate as an expensive lexicon.

 

[tierk]

Statistics say that Wiki is as accurate or inaccurate as an expensive lexicon.

If i want your opinion i will give it to you!!! :lol:

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

If i want your opinion i will give it to you!!! :lol:

Looked like you had some "I use wiki-quotes"-complex. Wanted to help .

 

[soze]

Yes i am sure that they would but why not just let the Police do the job they supposed to do and the Army do thers?

At no point do i suggest that the army, if they patrolled the streets, would actively do so - shoot innocent civilians - but it is not unheard of.

Lee Clegg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know people hate the Wiki quotes but i cba to look for more.

I know his conviction was quashed but its not like the people that died that day died of mysterious causes, they were after all shot to death.

I agree with you police should do policing but the use of the army to control situations where the police cannot control them is needed sometimes. Whats going to stop 100k protestors turning violent 5k Police or some armed to the back teeth angry looking soliders.

The whole Ireland thing really was a mess that ones hard to call if he shoot through the side he was still in danger = lawful if it was from the back then its unlawful. But don't forget that was a war zone not a civil area maybe ROE is relaxed in that situation?

 

[Achilles]

Whats going on in Italy is scary. I read in the papers a story about two Romane-gypsy girls who drowned in the sea on an Italian holiday beach. Locals didnt try to save them, just pulled them out when they were dead and left the bodies on the beach.
People are so naive to trust blindly in the government and give more and more of their autonomy away. Like someone said its not a case of do nothing wrong and you wont get hurt. Remember what happened to Jean Charles de Mendez. Just minding his own business on the tube, bang bang 10 rounds to the back of head with a MP%5milion or whatever you wanna-be-soldiers are calling it. Yes yes lets have more "specially trained people" with guns on the streets. All this being said I have a great amount of respect for people in the armed forces, especially for what they are being made to do and for how little they do it. The police on the other hand, in the UK especially, are a joke.

 

[Aoami]

I don't think you can blame the Police themselves, as they don't have the right to do anything they should be able to do anymore.

 

[soze]

Remember what happened to Jean Charles de Mendez. Just minding his own business on the tube, bang bang 10 rounds to the back of head with a MP%5milion or whatever you wanna-be-soldiers are calling it. Yes yes lets have more "specially trained people" with guns on the streets. All this being said I have a great amount of respect for people in the armed forces, especially for what they are being made to do and for how little they do it. The police on the other hand, in the UK especially, are a joke.

Bull Shit the guy was a suspected terrorist he ran away for armed police officers who decleared themselves as such then he turned around and put his hand in his bag. The police had been told he had a bomb and was going to blow up a tube so they shot him. It was the inteligence services fault not the police. And also he has to take some of the blame if an armed cop tells you to stand still you do not run to find a crowd of people. I do not care if armed men abduct you in Brazil this is England.

Fucking hate the way everything is blamed on the police its no wonder they have no teeth and little chavs are not scared of them. If the guy had a bomb and killed people with becuase the police did not shoot they would have got slaughtered too.

 

[Huntingtons]

he was a suspected terrorist?

 

[tierk]

Bull Shit the guy was a suspected terrorist he ran away for armed police officers who decleared themselves as such then he turned around and put his hand in his bag.....

Totally and utterly wrong.

If that is the way you think it happened or read about then you got the official bullshit version sanitised by the police for public consumption. Go and read about the witness accounts of what happened and not the lying policemen trying to save their collective arses.

Jean Charles de Menezes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This pretty much covers all the of it.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

he was a suspected terrorist?

Hence he said it was the intelligence at fault. For whatever the police knew, the guy was suspected, due to the information handed to them, to be a terrorist.

I don't care too much about the terrorism crap, coined by Dear Mr. --3s concentration-- Bush, but me disagreeing on that thing doesn't make the police at fault.
They have a job to do, and they do it according to the information handed to them by a bureau of intelligence, probably MI5 or MI6.
If the latter feeds the police malinformation, are the police to blame if they take correct actions according to given information?

 

[ford prefect]

Actually it seems to have been made very clear in the de Menezes case that the police did not identify themselves. De Menzes seems to have seen several guys approaching with guns, turned to run and get out the way and stumbled, giving one of the officers chance to jump on him and empty five bullets into him.

Given similar circuumstances, I think I would have tried to get out of the way too.

 

[tierk]

Hence he said it was the intelligence at fault. For whatever the police knew, the guy was suspected, due to the information handed to them, to be a terrorist.

I don't care too much about the terrorism crap, coined by Dear Mr. --3s concentration-- Bush, but me disagreeing on that thing doesn't make the police at fault.
They have a job to do, and they do it according to the information handed to them by a bureau of intelligence, probably MI5 or MI6.
If the latter feeds the police malinformation, are the police to blame if they take correct actions according to given information?

Tbh i dont think anyone is saying that the Police are doing there job wrong rather that have people running about with guns is dangerous even when they are trained policemen And the thread starter was asking about placing the army on the streets, which imo is totally OTT and we dont need another load of people running about with guns on the streets.

 

[ford prefect]

Tbh i dont think anyone is saying that the Police are doing there job wrong rather that have people running about with guns is dangerous even when they are trained policemen And the thread starter was asking about placing the army on the streets, which imo is totally OTT and we dont need another load of people running about with guns on the streets.

I agree, if you actually study PACE (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984) plus the 2007 ammendments, the police have more than enough power in law to do their job effectively. The simple truth of the matter is that the police are under staffed, underpaid and in some cases poorly trained.

Blunkett made a terrible mistake introduscing CSO's and giving them next to no power as a cheap solution to replacing officers on the beat, and that is where the problem ultimately lies.

 

[Achilles]

Bull Shit the guy was a suspected terrorist he ran away for armed police officers who decleared themselves as such then he turned around and put his hand in his bag. The police had been told he had a bomb and was going to blow up a tube so they shot him. It was the inteligence services fault not the police. And also he has to take some of the blame if an armed cop tells you to stand still you do not run to find a crowd of people. I do not care if armed men abduct you in Brazil this is England.

Fucking hate the way everything is blamed on the police its no wonder they have no teeth and little chavs are not scared of them. If the guy had a bomb and killed people with becuase the police did not shoot they would have got slaughtered too.

People above have covered everything to do with Menezes. He did not try and put his hands in his bag or any of the crap initially spewed out on the media. I am not blaming everything on the police i think the individuals do a decent-ish job, but the way they are run is a joke and what they spend their time doing is also a joke. My point about Menezes wasnt to criticise the police. It was to highlight that blindly beleiving getting your own people with more and bigger guns to patrol the streets isnt going to protect you. The guys that killed him at worst are trigger happy and stupid and at best lacking intuition. From the inquiry witness account the guy quite blatantly wasnt going to blow up anything.