Is void eldritches desirable in teams?

[Gorguss]

Okay, I've rolled a void eldritch and I'm just wondering if you other void eldritches ever felt useful in a team? I've been in some teams and I must say that about every other caster is better to have in a group than a void eldritch? I've heard of eldritches eating their keyboards soloing, and I understand this now after 16 lvls of bolting lol

And people are saying eldr pboae is 3 sec casting time, can anyone confirm this?

 

[old.Tzeentch]

why make void eldritch.

someone.
please explain.

because all i ever hear is void is gimp gimp gimp gimp gimp

you guys like filling my screen with BS shitty effects?!?!

 

[dragil]

Ok reasons to have a Void Eldritch... and I should know I got one

1 They are great in RvsR at picking people off from a distance killing archers/bowmen especially

In a group they are also good when teamed up with another Void Eldritch maybe they have to be a lvl or two higher than a pbaoe but thats not to bad. Two Void Eldritches in a group in DF just completely clean the floor with Area of Effect Damage. Plus even in a normal group when a mentalist is also in the group for Mana Regen, voids can then direct damage the opponent for some nice damage. Also if you have a pbaoe mage in the group a void can debuff the enemy for energy which makes the job easier.

Basically in summary Voids are good in a group when you also have a mentalist or another void or a pbaoe mage (especially an enchanter who can debuff for cold).

I would say to anyone who has a Void Eldritch keep it... because yes they are harder to level because everyone thinks they are nerfed. But they most certainly are not and its great when u proof to the group that they are good

VOID RULES!

 

[Tyka]

Void iz teh r0x!

 

[<Harle>]

Void-eld + mana-chanter: Eld debuffs energy, chanter debuffs cold --> mobs dead much faster. Nice combo, just not used that often ( for whatever reason).

 

[Gorguss]

And another thing, I'm at lvl 16
That means that I'm going to get both the new bolts next lvl which makes both of the bolts I now have suxxorz

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by Gorguss
Okay, I've rolled a void eldritch and I'm just wondering if you other void eldritches ever felt useful in a team? I've been in some teams and I must say that about every other caster is better to have in a group than a void eldritch? I've heard of eldritches eating their keyboards soloing, and I understand this now after 16 lvls of bolting lol

And people are saying eldr pboae is 3 sec casting time, can anyone confirm this?

ok, basically it depends on which type of group, if your single nuking one mob at a time then no, void is THE worst caster you can use for it, the void DD will hit for less than basically any other hib nuke available. pbae hits harder, light spec DD hits harder, on all hib mages, only one who you'll out damage is a mana/menta mentalist, even then the mana one get's some nice dots to use adn brings MR, HoT, and healing, along with an emergency mezz etc...

if your in a pbae group then your damage output with using single target DD is roughly 1/9th of a pbae eld, yet using aoe DD its only about 1/3rd (roughly, works out as needing about 2.6 voidies per pbae to make up the difference), however, even the weak aoe DD outdamages the spec light DD's when it comes to nuking 4 mobs in a baf group, so if picking mages and you are actually just going for max damage i'd go in this order:

mana spec
void spec
light spec

, that's for baf groups, for single target nuking i'd go:

mana spec
light spec
void spec.

also in pbae groups as a voidy you have the option of energy debuff if your above lvl 27 which will help, but generally you can have the same damage more or less from three aoe DDing void elds with just one pbaer, and i usually try to get two pbaers in a group, void can't really compete with that

void = should do a damn sight more damage considering what it is...

 

[dragil]

Have you had a Void Eldritch?

 

[Gorguss]

I could at least kill three blue con mobs with lvl 8 aoe void nuke and that was at lvl 12, I think at least

Oh, to make the case worse btw, aoe void DD is casting time 4 sec and enchanter pboae is 2 sec

 

[Kobold]

Light ment > void eld

Light ment got better aoe DD, better DD, both faster casting time. An dthey allso have hot, pot, dot, heal, mez charm etc....only thing they don't get is gtaoe and bolt...never liked any of em much

Light spec of all hib mages are uber, and I would never specced light any lower than 45 no matter what mage class I would have at 50

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by dragil
Have you had a Void Eldritch?

only for the last 9 months or so , go lookup respec in the patch notes

chanter pbae time is 2.5, eld pbae time is 3, tbh there's not much difference between the two, when it came to working out who does the most total damage i just calculated it all on the basedamages of the relative spells, using ranged aoe etc.. also taking the casttimes into consideration as well i may add, the numbers dont lie.

btw gorguss, dont worry about the bolts being out of date, i've noticed pretty much every caster adn every caster specline has at least a couple of levels where most/all your spells are out of date compared to your level, can't get away from it, havent seen a spec yet that doesnt get that situation every now and then , void had it i remember, mana had it at lvl 38 because of the utter difference in damage compared to the lvl 39 pbae (was a surprisingly large difference, wasnt expecting to hit for THAT much more when i leveled), lvl 40 in mana also has it because your snare DD is WAY out of date etc...

and yes eternal, light menta's are good for aoe damage, i meant light elds, with no aoe damage at all they have to single target DD, now the single target DD hits for more than the void ranged aoe DD, but the void ranged aoe DD would be (in a good baf pbae group) be hitting 4 mobs at once, that's multiplying the damage by 4, total damage output from a voidy in that situation is higher than a light eld. but for nuking single mobs, light will hit for a lot more because that's what it's supposed to do.

 

[Ensceptifica]

I played a void eld to lvl 21, and apart from finding it very boring, I also found that bolts are crap. The chance I actually hit something with it was close to zero. I did not have GTaoe at that time, but from what I've heard from void elds now is that GTaoe isn't that great, and bolts are still bugged.

I also played a light eld to lvl 25 before respeccing to mana. Light is great. It has the best nukes, you're a backup mezzer, the nearsight is nice in RvR. Most people do not pick light because they think nearsight is bad, the cold/heat spells get resisted a lot and there is a mez nerf coming which would make the already weak mez (31 seconds at level 47 light) even weaker (resists affecting mez, determination, purge, and aoe mez decreasing in duration further from the centerpoint). But Light has shorter casting times, although I'm not sure about the exact times... shift + i gives other casting times than most websites.

I respecced to mana though, because it's a hell of a lot easier to get groups then, and pbaoe groups are still the best xp groups I know. I'm currently playing a lvl 33 mana eld. It has a DD that has snare, an AoE with snare that I never use, aoe disease and aoe str/con debuff, and ofcourse pbaoe. It is very strong for pbaoe groups, and soloing is ok thanks to the snare on the DD. It also has energy as main damage type, which can be debuffed by void elds, + I hear few enemies have energy resists, which I doubt will be the case for long seeing everyone hates our pbaoe and that's what most enchanters/elds are taking.

In short, I think for xp groups mana is the best. For soloing, I think all three are ok, although the snare on the mana DD gives you more of a chance to run away and nuke some more on high level mobs (orange/red). For RvR, I've so far found light the most useful, and being a fanatical keep-siege person, the mana pbaoe, and void gtaoe are very nice. I heard some mages say that if you're gonna take void, you should take it all the way for it to be effective, and take light or mana as secondary spec.

I'm currently 30 mana/10 light, but think I'll respec to light at lvl 40. Not sure yet about secondary spec... gtaoe seems nice, but apart from that I think void does have very little to offer as a secondary spec.

 

[Danya]

Single target a mana ment will outdamage a voider in a group Charonel. Dot+base light nukes > void crappy nukes.

Light menta and void eldritch AE dd is the same except damage type, light mentas do get a faster single target dd though.

On energy resist, atm it's very hard to get energy much above about 12% in midgard. So you'll do sweet damage on the mids. It's less of an issue in Albion though (have capped energy on my mincer ).

 

[oblivion_6]

void elds are amazing in grps m8

Like has been said we have good debuffs for pbaoer to speed up the kills

Also my aoe spell (lv 46) does on average 350+ dmg on fins which is pretty good going

Also the last bolt u get at 46 is amazing ive been using it to take out oranges way b4 they get anywhere near me

Also if you spec ur eld void 46 light 26 mana 10

You get a cracking aoe mezz which can be used to pull many

Dont forget we also get a handy 10 sec baseline stun which can be used when soloing if something gets too close, 9 secs is enough to pull of two DDs which should take away bout 30% of its health and kill it

Also the stun can be used in grps effectively as you will find you get aggro more in higher lvls due to increased dmg

Many peeps are against voids but there are just as many for them, and yeah its tough leveling them but not many other chars are as good solo.

 

[old.Charonel]

ok, i've knocked someting up on excel which gives values such as dps for single target nuking for non baf groups, the overall aoe damages for baf groups etc... everything, all the info is taken from the Classes of Camelot site for basedamages, cast times, i've used the eldritch for the light spec DD, hence the cast time, menta lightspec DD is identical but has a faster cast time, will still be in the same area as all the other single target DD's though, just a bit higher than eld light spec in terms of damage, efficiency etc...

i havent included mana menta aoe dots simply because i dont have enough knowledge of how they'd really fit in, sometimes the mobs just dont live long enough to allow more than two ticks etc... sometimes the dots are extremely usefull and give a certain amount of impending doom to the mobs even if the pbaers are resisted a lot at one point etc... so i've just included the "nuke" spells, mainly for simplicities sake.

i've calculated everything for a test period of 40 seconds, this allows enough time to let the differences in cast times (sometimes as small as 0.3 of a second) come into play properly to influence results.

P.S. have a look at void gtaoe, shocking thing is that even with the 3 second cast time and 6 second recast timer, and low damage, agaisnt a 4 pull baf it STILL outdamages the use of singletarget void DDing, yet it has to be said that if you have void pure enough to get low variance on gtaoe, you'd be using ranged aoe anyway, which is about 3 times as effective , still, something to see

anyway, this is the basic source data for all the spells:

you can see all cast times etc.. right here in the above table, you'll see that i've used all the highest lvl spell versions, this is because they're on a very straight line and conform to that line all through the levels, you get the same damage/power usage etc.. all the way through, if there's less power usage then less damage proportionally, higher level, higher damage proportionally, therefore it's just fine to use these versions of the spells. below you can see two more tables, these demonstrate the effectiveness of each spell in two situations, nuking single mobs in a "normal" group, and nuking a full 4 pull baf in a "pbae" style group, killing all in parallel.

now follows the piccies for all you kids who can't get onto camllan , basically they just show stuff from the tables, but give a quickreferenence so is handy.

first is efficiency of the spells, ie how much damage is done per powerpoint burned on the spell, since some of the spells are aoe spells, i've added seperate graphs for everything giving the efficiency, dps etc... in single pulls and 4 pulls to reflect the difference, the first graphs are for if you want a spell which is the most efficient to use, for less downtime etc...:

next up is the total damage on mobs over the whole test period (as calculated from base damage etc...) for both the single pulls and 4 pulls, this should allow you to see which is best for just pure damage, if you want pure and unadulterated mob 0wN4G3!!1!1 (pffff ), then this is the graph to look at

and finally we have the overall DPS of the various spells, again, for single pulls and 4 pulls:

phew, anyway, this should give an idea about the damage differences between the various spells, efficiency differences etc... in the different pve grouping situations, and should give a decent idea about which is best to use, when.

 

[<Harle>]

ok, right - you were really bored or somthing ?

Still very interesting though

 

[Bourne Identity]

i must admit that void eldys are leet, as a mana chanter that lvled from 42-50 in 9 days in fins grps only cuz there was always a void eldy there.
their debuffs are super uber... if my regular hit is like 500-700 - with the eldy buff it's like 900-1100 (i got screen shot of 1400 hit including crit).
anyways they own.

 

[old.Charonel]

yep, was a bit bored , did some of it at work which is why the mentalist light spec DD wasnt included, didnt have the information available at the time.

 

[Danya]

What about AE dot?

 

[Lessurl]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
I did not have GTaoe at that time, but from what I've heard from void elds now is that GTaoe isn't that great, and bolts are still bugged.

Have to disagree, was the only void eld in an under siege keep once. Set up gtaoe on outer door and got into a good spot in keep where infis/sbs would struggle to get me. Let off a couple of gtaoe's. Hit about 10 tanks on the doors for 100-150 dmg a hit often ticking twice for 200-300. (ok, granted not much damage) After about 3-4 nukes number of tanks on door was dropping. Kept this up till all that i was hitting on the door were theurg pets. They kept going onto door again but i would just start up gtaoe again till it was only pets. Kept this up for whole siege. when we finally finished them off doors had only lost about 1/4. And this was the outer one. People are probably tellin you it's rubbish cos you can't kill any but the stupidest (staying where you are gtaoeing even when on low health) unluckiest (caught by a gtaoe when on low health) or afk people. But it is a very good deterant. Not many people stand around where that little bag keeps droppin for more than one or 2 nukes.

I was considering a respec to light as my most used rvr spell is dd. But i would miss my bolts for the rare occasions when i use them and would miss my gtaoe even more. Thought about a light/void spec so i could use baseline bolt (but wouldn't be enough to kill lvl 50 mages) and the lvl 23 gtaoe (but at about half the damage of full spec gt would not be as good a deterant, more just for interupting casters). So i am sticking with void/light for now.

Oh, and it's given me a good laugh on a few occasions. More than once now i've been standing around bored and started to randomly gtaoe in hope of popping a stealther (which i have done a few times) and someone in my grp has said. "Be wary, there's a stealther about. He's playin with us. Keeps droppin a bag and pickin it up again." ROFLMAO.

 

[Spudgie]

Void, *sigh.

 

[Gorguss]

Is it only me or do I get the impression that by asking a question about for instance specs on BW you are ten times as confused as you were to begin with Thanks for the info Charonel, I guess I should talk with about stuff like this since you are full of info. Considering, you are in my guild

Thanks for the different opinions, I will respec to mana at lvl 20 and then go to lvl 40 fully specced at mana just to check it out. And then on 40 I might go light spec, that way I at least will get to try out every single spec, although at a different lvl doh!

It's nice to join a team and actually know that you will be extremely valuable instead of a burden. (I'm not saying void elds are though)

 

[Kobold]

respec to light at 20. Spec light until you get the lvl 35 dd, then spec mana until you have 26 in mana, then light up to 45
It's easy to solo up to lvl 40 with light, dropping down orange greenbarks in a few blasts. Stun allso cost less mana when you high light spec. When youn get passt lvl 40 you will then start to get a deacent pbaoe you can use in baf teams. At least thats how I would have done it, But it's you're choise

 

[Gorguss]

Yeh, tanks can't hold aggro from lvl 20 to 35 either way so I guess it's the only viable choice

 

[old.Charonel]

rolf, i've only ever been in three groups where the tanks never lost aggro due to knowing what they were doing, one time in EZ when we had some very good tanks, used the right weaps, taunts, grouped mobs well etc... was utter bliss

other two times where when xping my manachanter (still consider her a light chanter due to the respec at 20 being used for just that when i reach there, mana spec is just to get there a bit easier) at parths , all other groups have had spearo's, people who didnt know what taunt was (i'm serious, lvl 40 tanks not knowing taunt, happened twice now ), people just generally using spears... more spears, more and more spears . gimmie a dual wielder tank damnit!

and yes i'm not talking about the one's who lose aggro to silly mages nuking too early, there's not a damn thing you can do about that, i'm just saying that the only "good" tanks i've ever grouped with where "mainly" lowbies, for some reason high lvl tanks just seem to think they're meelee nukers , obviously not all of them, but i've seen more at high lvl's act like it than at low lvl's, is very strange

 

[Tiptap]

Originally posted by old.Charonel
gimmie a dual wielder tank damnit!
[/B]

He is indeed wise!!!!!

 

[old.Charonel]

i meant a nightshade , tanks are no good if they constantly miss and stab themselves in legs blademaster

 

[Tiptap]

"Slayben, is no longer intercepting for you"

"Slayben appears to be using detaunt as you begin casting your nukes....and running away...naughty BM.

 

[Qte Eth]

void sux
anyone who disagree-is lazy or stubborn
ask any void eld who respec if he is missing hes void uber spec and u get some info

 

[old.Charonel]

You select Slayben. He is a member of the Blademaster class in your realm!

/rude