is there an way to recover the subs money from GOA?

[Raven]

there is a 7 day cooling off period for purchases online. i have no idea whether it covers this, its late and i cba to read it properly but...


"There are also a number of regulations which specifically control contracts which are formed online. The 'distance selling' regulations came into force in 2000 and protect consumers involved in 'distance contracts' (including contracts concluded on-line) by requiring the supply of certain information to the consumer before and after the contract is entered into. They also give the consumer a seven day cooling off period during which he can change his mind and withdraw from the contract. The e-commerce regulations came into force in 2002, and also require a range of information is provided to consumers before they enter into the contract. For further information, see our guide on EU and UK Regulations, and our article, The Distance Selling Regulations – An Overview"

taken from

Online Contract Formation | OUT-LAW.COM

I don't even know how reliable that is, would have to ask Tilda, he is the resident ambulance chaser

even if it is i don't know whether its worth chasing up

 

[Raven]

People are putting words into my mouth and I'm not going to get drawn in any further. I would however just like to point to the following threads which I found after a few seconds of searching. This is by no means an exhaustive list but it gives lie to the suggestion that I'm making this up as I go along.

From 2004
From 2006
from later in 2006.

Many of those threads contain posts by the same people who are expressing shock and outrage at this 'new' policy of mine.

Thats fine but at those times there were always other places to go, you cant seriously expect the soloers to all wander around different empty zones getting bored silly, the game is dead on the UK cluster (no thanks to your companies frankly breath taking stupidity) why on earth dont you want to let a few people that still have a style of play that is still possible just get on with it? They really arent hurting anyone.

 

[Xmi]

It's the typical GOA trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer approach

Nope, a ban would have been the sledgehammer approach

GOA chose to take the more humerous approach of spamming guards on them, which is pretty applaud-able in my books. Tbh though these people will cry regardless of the severity of the actions you take against them. Sometimes it is better to bite the bullet and just ban them, that would send out a very clear message to both them and their friends that this sort of action will not be tolerated in the future, whether it is in this game or in future games. Perhaps if GOA and Mythic had taken the sledgehammer approach from the beginning this type of cheating would have stopped before it became as common as it appears to be today.

Here's to treating cheaters with the utter contempt that they deserve

/climbs down from soapbox

 

[Esselinithia]

Xmi: it is interesting to see same people claiming they don't duel this way, and then tell you why they duel this way, then claim they don't duel this way, and so on and so on.

They claim they don't try to force their ideas on others, don't make rude comments about adds, and then they claim people are stupid because they don't listen to their demands, etc. and they post rude topics about adding on them.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Xmi: it is interesting to see same people claiming they don't duel this way, and then tell you why they duel this way, then claim they don't duel this way, and so on and so on.

They claim they don't try to force their ideas on others, don't make rude comments about adds, and then they claim people are stupid because they don't listen to their demands, etc. and they post rude topics about adding on them.

Ahhh, the Dyvet way, never before have I seen such a rechid hive of whine and qqing. GOA are not the only ones killing it, the players who cant control their bladder when they die or want to be LGM playstylist are doing a great job too. I so miss the days when we all knew this was just a game and had a laff, before the invention of arsejamming, adding, zerging and all the other pleasantries we have adopted over the years, I do wonder what WAR will bring to insult each other.

Make war, not love.

 

[anioal]

People are putting words into my mouth and I'm not going to get drawn in any further. I would however just like to point to the following threads which I found after a few seconds of searching. This is by no means an exhaustive list but it gives lie to the suggestion that I'm making this up as I go along.

From 2004
From 2006
from later in 2006.

Many of those threads contain posts by the same people who are expressing shock and outrage at this 'new' policy of mine.

Funny, I'm asking you to point me to rules stated in eula/coc and you give me FH threads?
Am I accepting FH threads when I log into game or am I accepting eula/coc?
As long your FH opinions are not enforced by eula/coc they are only personal opinions and they cannot rule my behaviour in game.


i don't put words in your mouth... i'm quoting you and if you say that, that only means you cannot see the implications of your statements.

In my view this can be solved eighter by allowing solo fights / turnirs / duel circles or whatever you may want to name them or by stating in CoC something like: "you have to slain every member of the enemy realms on sight" along with the rest of the rules regarding showing respect to each other, harrasment and cheating.

 

[Bahumat]

I think if Person A fights Person B with a FG standing around watching, that should be ok. If you think about history or fantasy there has always been a sense of Honour in 1 on 1 combat.

If Person A wins, then Person B gets rezzed and they both start other solo fights. They should both be banned.

The Duel should be 1 fight. If a GM see's they are fighting over and over he should ban them.

If a GM see's that after Person A&B's fight. C&D duel, then he should /yell Please stop the arranged dueling. If you continue, you will be banned.

 

[Xmi]

Funny, I'm asking you to point me to rules stated in eula/coc and you give me FH threads? and more blah

Trying to be a smart arse makes you look even sillier, and I emphasis the word *try*, you messed up and probably should have got a ban (and you would have in some of the other MMO's), accept it and move on, or better still don't accept it and find yourself another game, ideally a single player one, where others are not impacted by your selfish little ways. If you can't see why your actions are selfish, then you are more stupid than I thought.

Why do I care, because I have been on the receiving end of this duelling crap before, where I took out, what I took for an alb at a bridge in thid, turns out he was duelling with a whole bunch of people; I have never seen so many pm flames before! Very retarded behaviour, and your crying here is another facet of that same behaviour. Take it elsewhere and stop spoiling our games.

 

[Killder]

The whole point of DAOC RvR is a simulated epic war between 3 rival realms.

You dont see the UK Army, Afghans and Iraqis sat in a circle taking it in turns to twat each other.

Requiel did the right thing in trying to maintain the DAOC game concept.

 

[Levin]

I can only agree with Xmi and the others defending Requiel here.

I think it's the "DUELLING - DO NOT DISTURB! (and if you do we will post on FH that you're an A-hole)" atmosphere that GOA wants to stop, and I think it's a good thing. People should be able to attack realm enemies without even having to fear reprisals from their own realm mates. It might have been fine if duellers never complained when they got attacked by 'outsiders', but we all know that's not been the case.

Sadly, despite GOA's efforts, this kind of atmosphere were always strong on the English servers, bullying the rest of us until we buggered off. I'm also thinking about the whole iRvR thing where you were 'forbidden' to take keeps and if you did anyway, you got named and shamed in these circles. I think these things go hand in hand and they killed the game for many.

I don't expect those who play this way to understand how all the others feel. After all i can't really understand the need to set up duels in an RvR zone and get pissed when they get disturbed, and I don't really think there's a way for everyone to agree.

I'm just adding a voice in support of Requiel, who got a lot of abuse of the more childish variety in these forums.

 

[Esselinithia]

People should be able to attack realm enemies without even having to fear reprisals from their own realm mates. It might have been fine if duellers never complained when they got attacked by 'outsiders', but we all know that's not been the case.

Yes, the key is there: You should be allowed to attack without getting nasty comments, you should be able to take keeps without nasty comments, etc.

And when the dueling people, the irvr people, etc. made nasty comments about "zergs", "addings", "noobs", "roleplayers", etc. constantly and yell when they add, when they siege, when they try to have fun about how they ruin their dueling, and they should know that 20 morons claimed a whole zone as duel zone for this day and the 60+ people should **** off with their siege, that is a realy big problem.

Enough to stop these circles, and call their members both destructive and antisocial. They are also cheaters (plain and simple). And if these morons say: "others stop us from playing the game the way we like, and how evil they are" and "LGM playstylist" it is even bigger reason. Why? Because they want to change every other players to their wishes and "style" and they can't even accept the rules.

The moment when this soloer community stops flaming, whineing, moaning, being arrogant, and stops trying to force their ways on others, etc. is the moment where we can start to care about their wishes, goals, because at that time they are entitled to fun with some acceptable playstyle like the rest. etc. As long as they are antisocial arrogant hypocrites, they get what they get.

Solo "zone" would be good, if you accept the adds, the fgs, etc. but name some reason why lone adventurers from the realms would gather in a generic area to fight each other. If there are enough solo people, you would get many fight in a small area. Also if you use some emotes, to make sure you don't attack people who are PVE people normally and just has to do some missions for MCL, and respect them it is even better. And there are other perfectly legit ways to solo.

Dueling rings, and trying to stop other people from fighting there (claiming something that is here for all players as your own exclusive solo place), etc. isn't nice. Similar thing goes for iRVR fans too.

 

[Craparoni]

The whole point of DAOC RvR is a simulated epic war between 3 rival realms.

You dont see the UK Army, Afghans and Iraqis sat in a circle taking it in turns to twat each other.

Requiel did the right thing in trying to maintain the DAOC game concept.

These lines drawn between real life war and computergames are so uber man!

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Funny, I'm asking you to point me to rules stated in eula/coc and you give me FH threads?
Am I accepting FH threads when I log into game or am I accepting eula/coc?
As long your FH opinions are not enforced by eula/coc they are only personal opinions and they cannot rule my behaviour in game..

Are you talking b*ll*cks for the sake of typing, perhaps you are doing a typing course and practicing by using this forum, as your brain doesnt seem engaged.

Yes its true this isnt an official forum, however when people ask the GMs on here for the "official" word on the rights and wrongs of the game they host, rest assured if Req, Erivoss, Taryx or any of the team feel the urge to reply to such banter, then the words they use are carefully chosen to reflect the official standpoint of the rules of the game. Poor sods are damn if they do post here by people like you and damned if they dont post here...by people like you. No wonder Erivoss gave up on FH and said hed never post on here again! Dont blame him.

You are just spouting nonsense to try and worm around the fact you got caught, punished and dont like it, move on and learn to live with other peoples rules eh.

 

[Svartmetall]

There is no deception here, he merely wants to recoup money that he, in error, gave to GOA.

He didn't give it to GOA "in error" at all...he changed his mind after he paid and agreed to a EULA and COC in the process. It's bit like buying a pie, eating some of it then going "WAAA I DON'T LIEK IT GIFV MY MONEY BACK!"...


And...stepping back a little...read the thread the OP linked to as the reason why he changed his mind. Look at what the attitudes in that thread reveal about the current condition of the RvR part of this game. Then ask yourself why this game's population is really in the state it's in.

 

[Esselinithia]

From what I see: The current events didn't cause any drop in population, to say the least. In fact there is a good chance of seeing some good players return because of it.

 

[anioal]

Why do I care, because I have been on the receiving end of this duelling crap before, where I took out, what I took for an alb at a bridge in thid, turns out he was duelling with a whole bunch of people; I have never seen so many pm flames before! Very retarded behaviour, and your crying here is another facet of that same behaviour. Take it elsewhere and stop spoiling our games.

I think it's the "DUELLING - DO NOT DISTURB! (and if you do we will post on FH that you're an A-hole)" atmosphere that GOA wants to stop, and I think it's a good thing. People should be able to attack realm enemies without even having to fear reprisals from their own realm mates. It might have been fine if duellers never complained when they got attacked by 'outsiders', but we all know that's not been the case.

you are both right, but the solution to those harassment issues IS reporting the ones who gave you abuse and have them banned for a limited period of time or for good.

keep in mind that i enjoy all aspects of rvr be it 1vs1, 8vs8, zerg fights, siege warfare etc. and i dont remember me harassing a fellow hib because of rvr actions.

i wasn't in the game when requiel spawned guards and killed peeps at crau but acording to this there was not a case of prearanged duels or a case of rp farming or anything else that should entitle a gm to abuse his tools.

 

[kivik]

May I ask, when did spontaneous dueling circles without resurrecters become cheating?

Yes, using resurrecters, third party programs to organize duels at a specific time/place (not zone) and throwing abuse at others is bad, and should be bannable.

However in this particular incident, there was, from what I've gathered no ressurecters (Req keeps claiming there was but has fuck all to backup his claims). From what I understood Awarkle added on an ongoing 1v1 fight, the hibernian steps back and let the enemy charge and kill Awarkle. Even if someone did send abuse to him, why was everyone there warned/victims of Req' super-powers?

Once again, yes, using ressurecters at dueling meetings and/or abusing people that add is not OK. It, however, doesn't mean all kinds of dueling circles are cheating. Find it childish how everyone who are against dueling (for what reason one may wonder) jumps the opportunity to call it cheating.

Don't make duelers the victims, the abusers (no they're not all soloers) and real cheaters should be punished. I've been a dueling circles, and I've also abused adders. I would take a ban for it, but most of the times I just got the same abuse back at me. But wait, only soloers abuse other players, this can't be correct!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of dueling circles, promoting roaming in smaller areas would be good for the soloing scene I think, or what's left of it.

 

[Esselinithia]

anoial: I haveexplained before and I will say it again:

There are 2 sides of this story.

The first question is: DO such guard spawns hurt players? Since no repair bills, etc. they don't hurt you much, but forces you to move or release. People who want to move and look for fight, are forced to do what they want to do, so spawning guards shouldn't hurt them at all. But even if it hurts a signle corpse run after fight isn't much.

People who want to start and organize a dueling ring, wouldn't want to run, wouldn't want to release, and would want to stay in the dueling ring lose much more: They lose the ring and all the effort they put into making such rings, and also they feel it is noted down, and future attempts for such organized duels will cost them more.

As you see noone objected, noone told why guards hurt if you want to move anyway. Why? Because they don't hurt unless you form such rings.

Also the same people who whine because of the guards are the ones who explained how such stuff is good and who repeatedly flamed people for adding and crashing such duel rings.People who admited that they used such stuff.

Also the same people said "they thought it is ok" and Requiel pointed to the fact their interretation of rules were proven wrong before, so this claim (they repeat it everytime they flame other people about adding, etc) is wrong and proven wrong many times. And also they use an extrernal tool (web site, chat tools, etc) to communicate with members of other realms, to make something happen that hurts other players directly.

Using any third party tool, even your browser, even this site is against CoC, and Requiel and co have permissions to evaluate the damage done and judge the situation based on his observations. Requiel said such rings are bad for the game, and can result in severe actions.

They don't have to be named in COC directly, since when they are organized you communicate out of game (even TS is a 3rd party tool) so it is against CoC, and is harmfull (harmless use of such tools even if illegal is mostly left alone).

Also possible benefits of this is a design flaw (never intented to support this style) and if you build all your tactics on a design flaw (bug) then you bug abuse intentionally and knowingly.

Again: Requiel is free to judge if this cheating is harmless way to extend the game a bit, and good for the community or bad.

It is his judgement, and he should judge it. You can try to find reasons to change that, but again:

If he lets such dueling rings go without any action, that fact will be used by the regulars of these rings to flame other players, he has every right to call it harmfull and crash all such incident or ban people who was present.

Yet, I still say: Guards aren't harmfull for fair players, and for cheaters it just crashes the dueling rings. But a single dueling ring worths that much? And is it the reason of whines?

No, the problem is: many people who claim they never formed a ring, also claim they can't RvR without forming such rings and they RvR. They not only admit cheating with the later, but if you track insults to them, they can say: They have every intent to continue with cheating and harashing players on regular basis (constantly) unless Requiel uses force to stop them.

ANY innocent player who sees that Requiel has to act would understand that a single corpse run once in a while is acceptable if it helps to fix the community and the server. Even if it would hurt them. But if you have to move because of guards or fight for fun, when you want to move or fight for fun isn't realy harmful.

The problem is with the cheaters. If you leave because the worst agressive cheaters get stopped from cheating...

But lets see it from another perspective, without any dueling ring or anything. GOA is allowed to use events with any reasons, both to see how people react (helps to identify cheaters) and for fun, to make the game more life like (not so static) etc. and Requiel is responsible to use this tool when he sees it would improve the game in any way.

It is good that he used this power, and I hope he will spawn guards at irvr places too.

 

[Esselinithia]

kivik: No formal warnings, etc. were given.

Requiel spawned guards. If people waited there to take turns, organized stuff, had stuff ready, etc it crashed the event. It doesn't hurt anyone who is willing to be fair, take corpse runs, etc.
If they just fought once and was on the move, who cares if there are some blue cons behind you?

The problem is: The people present weren't only abusive with some player, but waited long enough for GM action and continued the dueling in same area repeatedly (if one side has port, other side has rezzer watching that is enough! some alb heavy tanks, etc. are rezzers) and the GM watched and when more such conflict and abuse happened (maybe he checked some communication too) he crashed the ring.

Again: for people who don't want to be part of it, crashing it without issuing warnings and bans does no harm, etc. for cheaters it can be painful.

The cheaters continues the verbal abuse, etc. againt both players and GMs, both in game and otherwise, and Requiel explained: he will crash such parties and too many such rings, too many abuse, etc. is good for a ban, for people who thought it is nice about argue about the event, who argued with both players and the GM. Still no formal warning.

I think people who argue with adds, flame adds, argue with GMs, flame GMs are the abusive people who should and could banned even according to you.

And I also think that some guards to split up a dueling ring it time doesn't hurt people who doesn't want to form the ring. It is this simple.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Mmm guardspawn. So, at the most it would have taken 10 minutes to get back to an area where the RvR was happening.

And to complain about it we have the forum equivilent of war and peace. Tears, snot, self-justifying posturing and pouting.

Get over it.

 

[Huntingtons]

The whole point of DAOC RvR is a simulated epic war between 3 rival realms.

You dont see the UK Army, Afghans and Iraqis sat in a circle taking it in turns to twat each other.

Requiel did the right thing in trying to maintain the DAOC game concept.

news flash! this is a bleeding game, not real warfare
people play pvp to have fun, and i bloody well dont think any does war to have fun, if so they should be shot in the back of their neck. compare rl to a game just shows that you're a moron (along with xmi, and for some reason i knew he had played a warlock even before i saw his signature )

 

[Xmi]

lots of blah

I am guessing from your post that you don't like Warlocks? Died a few times to them have we? :kissit:

 

[Golena]

Sometimes it is better to bite the bullet and just ban them, that would send out a very clear message to both them and their friends that this sort of action will not be tolerated in the future

Yes telling people that something is NOT against the rules and is perfectly acceptable to do, then banning them for following that advice would of sent a very clear message. That message would be Requiel has woken up from his nap again.

Not killing someone has been clearly stated by GOA to be acceptable. Maybe you want to explain why suddently doing somthing that has been said to be ok should result in being banned.

If I choose to run past a grey con mob in PvE should I also be worried about being instantly banned?

I've seen screenshots of people giving and receiving abuse from a huge range of scenario's. Lets ban people from killing any artifact mobs, killing someone trying to exp in the frontier, from exping in the frontier, from catcing a boat in RvR to another realm, for traveling in groups of more than 3 people, for traveling in groups of less than 3 people and for playing class X.
Now we've banned that lot the amount of whine should drop considerably.

Lets hope GOA get right on it eh!

 

[Esselinithia]

Golena: Cheaters are always creative to interpret the rules in strange ways, when their purpose is clear. And they are good at making nice whine posts about how unfair everyone else is.

 

[Xmi]

Yes telling people that something is NOT against the rules and is perfectly acceptable to do, then banning them for following that advice would of sent a very clear message. That message would be Requiel has woken up from his nap again...

Are you and Huntington's related by any chance, because you both seem to have trouble grasping simple concepts, e.g. Hunter boy takes a simple real world comparison and turns it into a "game is not real war argument", which was never the intention of the original poster, and now you take my banning argument as we should ban everybody and his dog, which again is not my intention. How clear do we have to make it for you guys?

If someone is cheating, and the organised RP farming sessions is cheating, whether you like to hear it or not, then yes I support the banning approach. If you don't like simple truths, then close your eyes and look away, can I make it any simpler for you?

A much better use of your posting time would be to say you don't support the RP farming sessions, organised duelling or whatever else people want to call it, that is going on, but somehow I don't think you will, instead you get muddled up in the semantics of the argument, leaving me to wonder if you are actually in support of it and are therefore part of the problem. Go on be bold and tell us which side of the fence you stand, or do you secretly like the splinters?

 

[Xmi]

Golena: Cheaters are always creative to interpret the rules in strange ways, when their purpose is clear. And they are good at making nice whine posts about how unfair everyone else is.

So true!

 

[Golena]

Are you and Huntington's related by any chance, because you both seem to have trouble grasping simple concepts

I could say the same to you.
You seem to label everything which doesn't fit in with your exact way of playing cheating. Having 2 bots and 2 people chain killing each other for realm points in the north sea is fairly clear realm point farming and should be removed from the game. People playing solo and moving to an area where other soloers are playing in order to have fights against other people where both sides try and win without people rezzing up unchallenged isn't cheating.
Some "duelling circles" might be cheating. That doesn't mean everyone who wanders past and watches a fight without instantly zerging both sides down should be labeled a "cheat".

A much better use of your posting time would be to say you don't support the RP farming sessions, organised duelling or whatever else people want to call it, that is going on, but somehow I don't think you will, instead you get muddled up in the semantics of the argument

And there's the problem. What's going on isn't realm point farming sessions anymore than establishing irvr then zerging each other with easy ports back is. The reason irvr exists is purely so people can rebuff and get straight back in the action, thereby getting more realm points per hour in a "false" game scenario.
What your saying is that if 2 albs turn up at crim where there's 8 hibs standing around, it's "cheating" if the 8 hibs decide to fight the albs one at a time instead of simply killing them 8 on 2. Doing anything else would constitute a dueling circle. The 2 albs would then no doubt log leaving the 8 hibs standing around bored for the rest of the evening.

My stance is that i'd much rather 1v1 fights were scattered throughout the frontier with people roaming looking for other soloers. On servers like the US classic servers this works, and it's what happens. On Dyvet the population simply isn't large enough to support that. Take 2 albs and 8 hibs and spread them throughout the frontier. Now see how long it takes the average hib to actually find an alb. You'd be lucky to run into one person in the entire evening (I know i've actually tried this, after 3 hours of seeing no-one I gave up and logged). So what happens is people go somewhere where they know there's a better chance of actually finding someone.
If there's irvr in one realm the standard place to go is the main portal keeps in the other realms. It's not prearranged, it's just the place where your most likely to meet someone else. Since the sides arn't going to be even when you turn up there it's up to the players there to even it up or the people with lower numbers might as well just not bother showing up.

Most of the time these "events" happen is when there's irvr and 90% of the population is squashed into one zone. Remove the "dueling circle" as you like to call it and 100% of the people will be in that zone. What happens in that zone is you run out, kill one person then get insta killed by 8 stealthers. The people not already there are not there for one reason. It's not because there's better RP's somewhere else, everyone at the top of the /stats rp list will be in irvr! It's because after having that happen twice they do something else or log. Getting killed by 8 times your number is no fun.
Remove the "dueling circle" and the players there will simply not play anymore. Not only will those players not be there, but neither will anyone else.

Now here's the question.. Why are people claiming good players will return because the dueling circle has been removed? They are probably going to go straight to the irvr area, so they arn't effected by whether the circle exists in a different realm or not. They could go to where the circle was, but they would be standing there alone. There's another 90% of the frontier they could do that in at the moment if that's what they wanted to do. So what do you gain by removing it?? All you've done is taken a small percentage of the population and removed them from the game, from a place where they wern't actually interfering with any of the other players. Why? So you can claim some kind of moral victory? That just seems petty to me.

Abuse given for adding on 1v1's has nothing to do with the subject here. That has been happening long before any "circle" was set up. It will exist long after the GM's fill the entire frontier with guards. There's normally few enough people there that simply turning up with a PUG will allow you to kill everyone there, especially since most people are solo with no healing! You might get some whine, it's the whine that the GM's should be clamping down on, not the forming of these areas.
In irvr you'll often see clerics standing by the keep doors rezzing up people getting killed by the hibs camping the bridge. I fail to see how this differs in the slightest from anything that might be happening in Hib during the GM interference. If the GM's spawned guards on a bridge camping group during a seige saying that attacking a keep with clerics in it was a rp farming exercise, i'm fairly sure everyone on the other side of the fence would be whining just as much!

The game offers many different ways of playing, that's part of the beauty of it. If the only way of playing that's "legal" is to roll a caster and go zerg on a bridge.. That's a great shame! Doing anything else on this server other than going to the areas you might find other soloers and hoping you don't get steamrolled by a small pug is called PvE and there's games out there that do PvE far better. What it actually appears is that most people complaining about the circles want is the ability to zerg down lower numbers guilt free. That's fine, as long as you realise that you'll get about a week of that before the other side cancels their subscription. You'll never get what you want, an endless stream of soloers willing to play every night to get killed over and over by a group of 4 people without complaining. Maybe 3 years ago, but not today. It would be nice yes, but you can either have the complaints or AI mobs. The mobs are already there, feel free to kill them.

 

[Golena]

Golena: Cheaters are always creative to interpret the rules in strange ways, when their purpose is clear.

I've still yet to see any rule written down that people are interpreting in strange ways.
If the purpose of this rule is clear you should have no trouble explaining what it is to me?

While your at it, can you also include why it would be good for the server and help to promote the kind of RvR you are wanting to see. I've seen nothing yet from the other side that has said:

The Dyvet cluster would be better if none prearranged 1v1 fights didn't happen at none crowded areas because...

If you can finish that sentance with something that isn't just complete nonsense like "we would get less whine and abuse" (you'll just get different whine and abuse, and you know it!) then i'll accept your point. All i've seen so far however is people yelling "CHEATS" with no explenation about how any "rule" is being broken!

 

[Shike]

your best post Golena, no doubt. Ive read and disagreed in silence with many of your posts in the past but that was a good one

(edit: i meant the long one)

 

[Xmi]

[insert long post here]

You sure like to type don't you.

I won't go into a detailed response because you aren't really listening; I think I have spelled out exactly what I am against but you keep insisting on expanding that into other areas for which I have no axe to grind.

While you don't say it out-right, your post pretty much sums up your attitude to this type of cheating, in summary (and a lot less words than you) you support organised RP farming because it saves you time and effort to find RvR action, but you are afraid to come out and say it. There, you can get off the fence now.

Final thoughts (because this is like pulling teeth, and no Hunts boy, I am only using the pulling teeth comment to... oh never mind): if you really wanted to, you could find regular RvR action, you just need to use your brain a little, I guess that's why you are having trouble finding the action?

Have fun out there