is there an way to recover the subs money from GOA?

[Golena]

I won't go into a detailed response because you aren't really listening

Neither are you!

I think I have spelled out exactly what I am against but you keep insisting on expanding that into other areas for which I have no axe to grind.

You've not spelled out what your against at all. Are you against 2 people having a fight near a bridge. 2 people having a fight with one watching. 2 people having a fight with 2 watching. 2 people having a fight with bots rezzing up.
What actually constitutes a "duelling circle". It's something that's not been made clear in any of your posts, you just keep yelling cheat.

While you don't say it out-right, your post pretty much sums up your attitude to this type of cheating, in summary (and a lot less words than you) you support organised RP farming because it saves you time and effort to find RvR action, but you are afraid to come out and say it. There, you can get off the fence now.

It's like hitting my head off a brick wall it really is.
Going to a bridge where you expect to find the enemy is cheating?
Is going to irvr because you know your going to find people to fight there also cheating?
Do I have to go somewhere I don't expect people to be in order to follow the rules.

Yep, i'm being silly now but where are you drawing the line, your not making it even slightly clear. Your shouting cheat at people without explaining what they are actually doing that's cheating.. You also support cheating in DAoC, i'm not going to explain what cheating, but you'll accept that you cheat and support other cheaters right?

if you really wanted to, you could find regular RvR action, you just need to use your brain a little, I guess that's why you are having trouble finding the action?

Maybe you'd like to give a hint then, so all the cheaters can come join in the legal action?
I've sat happily in many parts of the frontier for upwards of 30 minutes during primetime without seeing anyone, and they wern't even remote places. While there's been "dueling" zerging going on at one crauch bridge i've sat for over an hour on the other one without a single hib passing during primetime.

I'm quite happy to roll a mid and stick up to you while you show me where all these great solo fights your finding are taking place away from the bridge with the guards at it. Remember i'm not playing a caster so the fight is going to take more than 20 seconds.

 

[Ctuchik]

on 22th and 29th of april (or so - i have a bad memory for dates) i renewed both my accounts for 3 months.

given the last incident regarding requiel playing god with the ruleset/coc (check this) i dont really feel like playing anymore, but i also dont want to give'em money for nothing.

so, my question is: is there a way to get back the money for the 2 "unused" months?

ppl was RP farming there. not soloing.... if u feel the need to quit when u cant break the rules, all the better.

 

[Levin]

To those saying that without the duelling circle thing, it would be impossible to find enemies due to low number of players.

Back when i still played we used to go out and capture a couple enemy towers. That would make the map blink and warn off enemies and soon enough they would come there and fight would ensue. Sometimes soloers would hang around too and get shots at the action.

This worked up until the point where people started slagging us off for ruining their precious iRvR. Bring your focus back to the built in system to get your fights, take some towers! And if you're many enough, God forbid, attack a keep!

Somewhere down the line it seems the spirit of the game got completely forgotten.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

<Waves to Levin>

Bring your focus back to the built in system to get your fights, take some towers! And if you're many enough, God forbid, attack a keep!

Yep.

 

[Xmi]

What actually constitutes a "duelling circle". It's something that's not been made clear in any of your posts, you just keep yelling cheat.

You originally used the term duelling circle, not me. So why don't you define it. Interestingly in your original post you said you were against duelling circles, which is all good stuff, but now (above) you are telling us you don't actually know what a duelling circle is! How can you be against it when you don't know what it is you are against? I think you are confusing yourself /sigh

For the record:

Cheating takes many, many forms. Let me focus on just one very specific form; Where you have a bunch of people from opposing realms standing in a fairly small area, e.g. within 1k game units of each other, duelling, and when the duel ends, the bots ress, and another duel commences, and so on, and the bots remain untouched by any of the opposing realm players. That is cheating.

We could get embroiled in the grey areas, which you will probably do, but there is little point as a) it will take forever, and b) the final decision as to whether someone is cheating or not lies with Mythic and GOA. And their decision is final. Couldn't get more simpler than that.

Oh and running your hunter down to bled bridge, camping there for some action, killing or being killed by random opposing realm players, releasing and coming back is not cheating.

It's like hitting my head off a brick wall it really is.

It is actually hitting your head *against* a brick wall. Perhaps that is where you are going wrong, if you try hitting your head a bit less, maybe things will be clearer without the need for you to make stuff up or confuse yourself?

I could go on, but there's little point, especially when you don't really know what it is you are against yourself (see initial part of this post). Hint: Try reading your own posts before posting about others, it will give your posts more credibility ;-)

Btw you would have been fine if you had stuck to your original statement, which I certainly have no argument with:

I hate dueling rings as much as anyone, it's a fairly lame way of finding fights. There is a big difference between letting people get on with solo fights without zerging them down with a fg and standing about /beckoning only the people you actually want to fight.

That's more than enough from me, post away but I won't be responding to this thread any more, as I think I have made it very clear where I stand on this stuff.

 

[Esselinithia]

I've still yet to see any rule written down that people are interpreting in strange ways.
If the purpose of this rule is clear you should have no trouble explaining what it is to me?

I have told you many times. When Mythic mades code with an intent to see it do X, and you see it can do Y too, that is a bug, it can be a small problem in the code that is easy to fix, or a major design flaw that would mean redesigning most of the system to fix it or stay unfixable for long time.

Rules about RP distribution, BP distribution, etc. are designed to make the PvP element in DAOC different from other implementations: It was designed to add a story to it (war between realm) and to make it community vs community, where the shared effort of the realm is rewarded.

If you find a way to make the rules support something different, it can be something good if it makes the game better for all, or something bad: If you can abuse it to hurt the game. The later is bug abuse.

Knowing how to treat a new possibility opened by a bug, design flaw, etc. is simple: You report it, and if GMs says it is ok to use it this way you can use it that way. If GMs say you shouldn't use it this or that way, and only this or that is a far way to use, then that is final as well. You shouldn't extend their description of what is fair by any creative explanation, you shouldn't look for a workaround for each and every limitation, but you should respect the explanation by the GM.

Why? Because this is the difference between living with a design flaw / bug, and open blatant bug abuse.

And after bug abuse, where you claim "I had to do it" so it is intentional, flaming fair players and GMs alike (another abuse) is a good enough reason to know you as an abusive antisocial arrogant cheater. Also GOA reserved the right in official rules to stop any action they see as harmful for the game and this covers the situation just as well.

But lets see some explanation to what is fair.
If a so called solo zone/area idea (organized ot not) doesn't:

• change the fact you SHOULD look for fight (otherwise it would save time, increase RP and BP output) so not staying in same place
• call zone or area offlimits to FGs, PVE people, siege people, zergs (otherwise it would limit chances for others)
• doesn't result in verbal abuse
• doesn't lead to any action against players who use the area for other purposes / add (you don't lock them out of raids, etc. for it)
• with all members accept possible random events that makes you move a bit to ensure looking for fight takes fair effort
• doesn't end up in argument with GMs (it would hurt the game again)
• doesn't mean you have rezzers / healers ready and off limits (even if only one side has rezzers, other side can port to the duel place without walking and looking for fight it isjust as bad)

etc.
then it can be fair. Sadly so called dueling rings even when this was explained to them many times before tend to forget half of it and look for creative workaround. But that is called cheating.

 

[Golena]

You originally used the term duelling circle, not me. So why don't you define it.

I know what my definition of a dueling circle is and don't consider it to be cheating. That's people from different realms arriving at the same place and fighting 1v1 without interference from the others. I would consider it to be unfair if it was arranged out of game, or if people were rezzing up offlimits.
You are saying that dueling circles are cheating. If you don't define your version then there's no way for me to say that I agree with your statement that people participating in them are cheating.

That said I think almost all the points Esselinithia made above were very good with the exception that you should have to move around. If there's enemies in place X, then I don't see why you should be forced to run at point Y to avoid cheating in the hope of actually meeting someone. The reason people should move around is to avoid enemies they don't wish to encounter. If people in FG's came and steamrolled them at point X they would probably go somewhere else, if they stay alive at point X, there's no reason for them to move. Naturally the larger the population the larger the area that is likely to be used. With todays population moving any distance from the bridge where the action is results in an empty frontier. I'd like to be able to roam there and find people, we need more population on the server to actually support that playstyle however.

This worked up until the point where people started slagging us off for ruining their precious iRvR. Bring your focus back to the built in system to get your fights, take some towers! And if you're many enough, God forbid, attack a keep!

As for the idea of taking towers, it simply doesn't work these days. I've flamed a few towers recently when suiciding from exping arti's and one of 2 things happen. Either no-one turns up and you end up with a useless unclaimed tower, or you get hit in the back by an opted group and release.
It worked in the old days when groups used to take towers in order to farm them and action could build up around them.. That got crushed pretty much instantly when you could just treb the tower to the floor from safety. Another one of Mythic's masterplans that backfired completely.

The idea of bringing enough to actually take an important tower or keep is again a different playstyle. If I wanted to run about with another 20 people seiging, I could go do that in the irvr zone and be happy. Taking a keep with most of todays albs is like sticking needles in your eye. The last time I joined a pug and went to a keep take, we ran onto a bridge where the zerg was, half the group instantly went AFK since they were safe in the zerg and I spent 20 minutes standing about on my tank watching casters rp farm each other then get rezzed up by healers standing just behind them out of range. That's what the average seige situation is like these days, and why seiging stuff simply doesn't happen anymore. Either you take something people have no interest in defending, or you take something that they do want to defend, but you've got to turn up with at least 10 idiots who don't know how to play their class properly. It's ok to do sometimes, but it's not how I want to spend my entire time ingame.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

It's quite amazing how the carebears like Xmi, Esse and Roo comment on dueling circles while not fighting around Crauch. At least I haven't seen any of you there for ages.

Most of the time it's just way many Hibs than Albs and Mids and I don't see the reason why those Hibs should chain kill all who are incoming to there, that would make them simply log, the Hibs would log too and we have an even emptier server.

Just because Donkeh gets killed from time to time by the guys he is trying to kill it doesn't justify calling for a GM to help.

There are almost never rezzers around and rarely it ends up with a real circle of people waiting to fight each other. A lot of the solo guys aren't even interested in that.

As for trying to take a tower or a keep, please go log on and play the game instead of coming up with some highly theoretical bullshit, you light a tower alone or as a duo or even as a group and you will have almost always twice the numbers to gank you out of there.

But no, carebears don't play and they don't draw their own conclusions from what's really happening in game, they are just narrow-minded dogmatic sheeps.

uke:

Yes, I am getting annoyed with that topic because the whole GM intervention thingy serves assholes who like to zerg one guy down over and over again just to emote him and if they are on the receiving end for once they cry like little babies for GM help.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

As ever, Manisch has to make any counter-argument a personal attack.

Raising a subject for discussion on a public forum entitles anyone who uses that forum to comment.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself why you enjoy baiting people so much and address your own unhappiness rather than attacking everyone else on pretty much every forum possible.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

As ever, Manisch has to make any counter-argument a personal attack.

Raising a subject for discussion on a public forum entitles anyone who uses that forum to comment.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself why you enjoy baiting people so much and address your own unhappiness rather than attacking everyone else on pretty much every forum possible.

It's pretty simple, I am stereotyping you to a carebear and I dislike carebears. Donkeh is a carebear, as long as he outnumbers enemies and gets RPs everything is okay. When he can't outnumber them for once and when some Hibs watch him die he is calling a GM. Personal attack? I don't think so.

So please tell me, how often have you been in the past at Crauchon to be able to say what's really going on there?

How often in the past have you been attacking a tower alone or with just a few?

Can talk about the points I have made instead trying to comment my style?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Before discontinuing my account, keep related activies were my main interest. I was equally as comfortable getting to them solo or with one or two hundred close personal friends.

That remains the case and as I've said on other posts I'm still re-equipping since reactivating and attempting to get my goon up to par - splitting my time between the various things that DAoC affords - some keep stuff, some roaming stuff, crafting, CL xp'ing, ML raiding, some questing. Been out and about solo (though I tend to get creamed so far, still enjoyed it seeing how the old SM matches up, relearning it all ). Been out and about with small groups or several groups of people.

I don't whine about the state of the game on the frontiers. Just dive in and have fun...and go out again.

Regarding Dun Crauch, how far back you wanna go? I've probably been there more than a lot of Hibs - recently though, no, not been there. Its not actually relevant to the discussion topic other than its where something happened. The concepts/ethics/mechanics/attitudes under discussion are not rooted in the location. Nice attempt at deflection though.

As I said, you need to look at why you need to argue like this as the arguments themselves are paper thin and as much as you deny it your own words make you a liar for denying making personal attacks since your comments are fuelled with aggression.

The place for flames is on the war map. And they are best left there.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

As I said, you need to look at why you need to argue like this as the arguments themselves are paper thin and as much as you deny it your own words make you a liar for denying making personal attacks since your comments are fuelled with aggression.

When I get called cheater or RP farmer just for living up to my own code of honour when I am solo it gets me angry and agressive.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

When I get called cheater or RP farmer just for living up to my own code of honour when I am solo it gets me angry and agressive.

That I can understand. I however did not call you any of these things.

This is slightly theorycrafting (because I wasn't witness to the events... and hands up everyone who can spot the WoW term ) but in some situations its hard to distinguish when someone is genuinely playing as the game mechanics designers intended or 'bending' the rules. Sometimes circumstances can be very suggestive. Sadly, sometimes you just have to lay on the iron fist and accept its less than exact.

I'll give you an example: You're a parent and your two kids are playing up. Both are blaming each other and you have no way to know which of them is telling the truth and which is lying to deflect blame. Every parent with more than one child has come across this situation. Sometimes the only thing you can do is give both into trouble to deter the overall behaviour, rather than dealing with the exact one that initiated <cough> hostilities. Its not satisfying and it is guaranteed that one will feel unjustly hurt but one thing you do know:

Its less likely to happen again.

Anyone who has been unjustly accused of something can empathise with the feelings if you've been innocently injured.

But...

...it really is time to get over it.

 

[Esselinithia]

When I get called cheater or RP farmer just for living up to my own code of honour when I am solo it gets me angry and agressive.

Your code of honor instead of official rules? And it included Aimbot in CS, RP farming rings in DAOC? Maybe that is why people say you are a cheater.

Go back to fight easy bot targets in CS with aimbot loaded.

 

[Esselinithia]

Roo: it is easy to draw a line. People either play by the rules.

Or say, they play according to their own code of honour instead which means they have unfair advantages.

Interesting enough: not all soloers think they are called as cheaters.
Since it is told what is cheating, and people who are cheating are cheaters.

Morons say, when they cheating that doesn't make them cheaters because cheating is in their code of honor and they are free to override the rules with their bullshit for everyone. And they are the ones who hurt the community most, they done more harm than all problematic decisions by GOA + Mythic combined.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Your code of honor instead of official rules? And it included Aimbot in CS, RP farming rings in DAOC? Maybe that is why people say you are a cheater.

Go back to fight easy bot targets in CS with aimbot loaded.

What is wrong with you, seriously?

Are you so degenerated to call me a cheater on public forums without knowing what and where I played?

You sir, in fact are the most dumbest carebear I have ever met. You compare the usage of hacks like aimbots to my decision not to attack engaged enemies or those who are not on 100% health?

Sorry, but you are so fantasticly stupid, it hurts. And don't give me this "Manisch is an unfriedly guy bullshit" - if you'd be my friend and we'd sit at a pint and you'd start such a comparison I'd prolly bitch slap you so you could wake up and be thankful for it after .

My Infi is RR5L1 and not a single RP has been gained by RP farming. Unless you can prove it I suggest to shut up and your disordered dogmatic carebear vision of guys who have some decency to let others finish the fights being cheaters is not a prove.

As for you refering to a FPS like Counterstrike, I played Ravenshield in CTU and insanity and those clans were top Clanbase clans with an anti-cheating policy.

 

[Golena]

Or say, they play according to their own code of honour instead which means they have unfair advantages.

Interesting enough: not all soloers think they are called as cheaters.
Since it is told what is cheating, and people who are cheating are cheaters.

It's amazing that you can make a completely valid and thoughtful post one minute and then churn out this utter crap the second.
Why does playing by your own code of conduct mean you have unfair advantages or are cheating. If my code of conduct was to only spec matter on my sorc would that also be cheating?
It's only when someone's code of conduct is against the CoC that it's cheating! Not helping you out because you rushed off your bridge to attack something you couldn't kill is NOT cheating no matter how much you scream, shout and throw fits about it.

People like you keep telling us to "let it go" about GOA's latest action. I'm going to say exactly the same back to you.

 

[Esselinithia]

Your code of honor in ADDITION to rules, isn't cheating.

When it is told something is cheating, and you say: "but hey I play according to my code of honor" instead of rules, that IS cheating.

This is the difference.

 

[Imgormiel]

Your code of honor in ADDITION to rules, isn't cheating.

When it is told something is cheating, and you say: "but hey I play according to my code of honor" instead of rules, that IS cheating.

This is the difference.

And there are people that still actually care? mmmmmmmm ..........

(not that I support cheating but to even mention it when the fact that peeps in this game just play the way they want to and have always made their own rules makes your remark somewhat silly. Dood, when the rules of this game are obeyed to the letter by all players I'll give you the English national lottery in person. And btw holding your breath is always a good idea in good circumstances )

 

[Esselinithia]

Yes, many people traded accounts, used buffbots from a friend, let others to play on their accounts, etc. but when they are called on it, they don't think it is bloody murder against them.

 

[Golena]

Yes, many people traded accounts, used buffbots from a friend, let others to play on their accounts, etc. but when they are called on it, they don't think it is bloody murder against them.

What exactly has this got to do with anything?

 

[Esselinithia]

Imgormiel said people ignored rules before and now, for the whole time. As I said it is true, but if they are called on it, they don't moan like some "soloers".

If we it is known that doing X is cheating and people say "people who do X are cheater", and Manisch say: "How dare you call me a cheater? I did that and it is cheating normally but for me who only follow the rules of manischdom it is withing my rules!" that is a bit problematic.

People who know that doing X is cheaing.
And claim that if I say: "People who do X are cheater" means they are cheater (they are the people who is doing X) then they admited they are cheaters. They can't justify it by their made up rules.
And the fact that 60% of people cheats (like in CS) doesn't make cheating right. And doesn't mean people who cheat aren't cheaters.

 

[Golena]

If we it is known that doing X is cheating and people say "people who do X are cheater", and Manisch say: "How dare you call me a cheater? I did that and it is cheating normally but for me who only follow the rules of manischdom it is withing my rules!" that is a bit problematic.

So what did Manisch do that was cheating normally that he was claiming was ok for him?

Nothing as far as I can see from this thread, which makes everything your writing at the moment mostly just drivel.

 

[IainC]

I'm going to lock this because it's just degenerated into flame and counter flame. I have never suggested that any of the people in the duelling ring were cheating. If people were actually cheating then they would have been suspended or banned. Something can be against the rules and not be cheating.