Is it just me, or are tanks getting more rare these days?

[danskmacabre]

I've noticed lately, that it's hard to get Tanks in a group.
I find that we can get Scouts, Friars, mages of various types.
And there ARE LOTS of Paladins (which I end up healing the most), but Armsmen and mercs are pretty rare...

Are pure tanks just unpopular? Or have they been nerfed in the last patch?

Or am I insane?

 

[old.Hendrick]

People are turning towards alts that can own in RvR. That's all. A sad trend.

 

[danskmacabre]

Originally posted by old.Hendrick
People are turning towards alts that can own in RvR. That's all. A sad trend.

Are you saying then, that Pure tanks are no good in RvR?

 

[Meatballs]

I think the merc population has actually grown, but maybe a little less armsmen. And paladins should really be able to take a hit better than a mercenary, and maybe even better than an armsman with their self af buffs/af chant/heal chant.

as for rvr, tanks can smatter people when they get in close, but the amount of ranged crowd control this game has it can be difficult for them.

 

[old.Revz]

Basically everyone wants to play a class that can solo in RvR and gain tons of RP. Tanks have the hardest time doing this because their main class abilitity (hitting really hard in melee) is mostly useless because they get mezzed/stunned/rooted and shot to death from range. In addition the concept of "tanking" is pointless in RvR because there is no collision and so no way for the tank to actually protect his weaker realm mates from damage in the same way he can in PvE. Players aren't stupid (for the most part) and so make a beeline for those cloth casters which the tank can do nothing about.

They are great in keep taking but like most classes they pale in comparison to the rogue triumverate in RvR (minstrel/infiltrator/scout). This is why you see everyone rolling up scout/minstrel/infil alts all the time. I personally find it very frustrating as a guild GM that people keep playing RvR classes and abandoning their actually useful and highly valuable PvE classes. At the end of the day a realm full of solo rogue classes wouldn't be much fun

 

[old.Hendrick]

For a fighter to be good in RvR you have to get close to the enemy. This is possible if you use your brains and are a bit lucky, but generally you have quite a hard time. And you will never be able to "0wnz0r" people as much as a scout or infiltrator. Especially the infiltrator population is now so big that it gets boring as hell.

 

[danskmacabre]

Originally posted by Meatballs
And paladins should really be able to take a hit better than a mercenary, and maybe even better than an armsman with their self af buffs/af chant/heal chant.

I wouldn't know about the ins and outs of Paladin buffs etc..
But from experience of my Cleric, I find that I end up spending most of my mana healing Paladins...

as for rvr, tanks can smatter people when they get in close, but the amount of ranged crowd control this game has it can be difficult for them.

Oh, That does not bode well for my Armsman alt then..

 

[Sharp Thing]

1) Phos (50th lvl Highlander Armsman) [The Chosen Ones] 2,420,124
2) Kibar (50th lvl Saracen Scout) [Iron Monkey] 2,309,716
3) Xearoii Swiftkillz (50th lvl Celt Hero) [KoS] 2,237,799
4) Caspa (50th lvl Norseman Skald) [AAR Forever] 1,773,915
5) Anonymous Defender 1,710,176
6) Melkorai Alme (50th lvl Lurikeen Eldritch) [KoS] 1,499,540
7) Gannondorf Isenhart (49th lvl Elf Nightshade) [KoS] 1,486,932
8) Garretjax WarMaster (50th lvl Briton Armsman) [The Chosen Ones] 1,431,276
9) Whippy (50th lvl Kobold Runemaster) [Kindred] 1,415,238
10) Wrap (50th lvl Lurikeen Enchantress) [KoS] 1,325,778
11) Anonymous Defender 1,277,685
12) Cyclonus (50th lvl Avalonian Wizard) [The Chosen Ones] 1,277,003
13) Hong JJukJJuk (50th lvl Kobold Shadowblade) [AAR Forever] 1,251,132
14) Calypso Ultima (50th lvl Highlander Scout) [Dragon Family] 1,247,381
15) Dopper (50th lvl Saracen Minstrel) [The Chosen Ones] 1,235,675
16) Drayquan (50th lvl Elf Eldritch) [KoS] 1,186,657
17) Paytun (50th lvl Saracen Scout) [Iron Monkey] 1,178,080
18) Patti (50th lvl Elf Eldritch) [Sonoma Club] 1,147,205
19) Lightsaber (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel) [The Chosen Ones] 1,122,401
20) Skeltah Dooku (50th lvl Firbolg Hero) [KoS] 1,117,792
21) Anonymous Defender 1,087,252
22) Octane (50th lvl Saracen Scout) [The Chosen Ones] 1,067,625
23) Grz ItchyRedPinkThing (50th lvl Celt Ranger) [KoS] 1,048,518
24) Gibtuocs (50th lvl Saracen Scout) [The Chosen Ones] 1,043,950
25) Thurles PhD (50th lvl Firbolg Druid) [KoS] 1,014,334

who says tanks dont own in RvR

 

[Solid]

That is why Skalds are the highest melee rp earners hands down across all 3 realms. They have that gift from the godsm SPEED!

As a Thane, I hate RvR without a Skald, as it means I cant close in on my targets fast enuff.

 

[Brannor McThife]

All you need to do is look at the US stats. Warriors are rare. Armsmen are more, but still, pure melee classes are quite frankly owned by every other class.

Warriors need endurance to fight. An infil could quite easily kill a warrior if he had the time. PA or whatever CS style you want. Run away, hide, rest, re-apply poison and go back to finish off the poor sucker who can't regen his hps he lost to your lifebane and disease; is now sitting to regen his endurance he lost trying to catch you, and re-poison him.

Whether you like it or not. Assassins classes may become more prevalent. I'm sorry, but that's justmy oppinion.

Warriors are easy targets in RvR. AE mezz, insta-mezz, all just let you stand still and watch everyone else die before they come for you. It's a game, games are meant to be fun. And getting mezzed and killed without ever achieving anything kinda explains why I stopped taking Glauthrong to the frontier before I even thought of going to Alb. I will NEVER create another pure melee class.

Hendrick, you can complain all you like about the number of infiltrators vs armsmen, etc. fact is, 2/3 infils will drop a troll warrior so fast he wouldn't even have the chance to /y. Same goes for any melee class. They're good for keep raids. Period. They can do F-all at keep defenses.

This game is soooo over balanced in the favour of mezzers.

[/rant]

-G

 

[danskmacabre]

OK, given that pure tanks seem to be crap...
I want aan alt that will be very different from my main Cleric and Wizzie.
I want to have a melee type character that isn't tatally gimped in RvR..


But, I don't want to be a paladin and I definitely don't want to be a merc.

So, I may dump my armsman for a different class in Albion..

So,
Whaddya reckon?
Which melee class would be fun to have and decent enough in RvR, but also not a class which is overpopulated in the game?
So that rules out Infiltrators.

 

[case-rigantis]

reading the thread here have to chuck my 2c in...
the reason I personally prefer Paladins as tanks over armsmen is their relative flexability. nothing can hold aggro like a pally with heal chant running in PvE this means greater safety for the group as a whole
a pally now has the same hit points (i ebleive icould be wrong) as an armsman and has nearly the same parry and blocking. he can also use damage chant to increase damage done in a group with no wizard
in RvR we suffer from slow movement but think for a moment a group with : 6 pallys 1 cleric 1 minstrel and shudder in terror ..the pallys heal chants alone would heal 200 points every few seconds
have to agree it seems that people more and more are rolling rogue classes ..go to BG`s one night you`ll see what i mean

 

[krait]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing


who says tanks dont own in RvR

If you check the guild name of the armsmen,it's the same as the 2 minstrels/wizard/2 scouts.....a Gank squad....the only hope for armsmen.

 

[starblade]

You have to like playing a tank ... when people say they are the easiest class, it's a bit overrated. If you don't like charging in, bash heads and have a long downtime (solo e.g.), you'll never make it as a tank. Overall, I played every class in this game to a respectable level and for every realm, there is a tank in my top2 of 'classes to play someday'

When starting my main, I picked a paladin, I never regretted it (even tho she is a 2hander ) and I will never abondon/delete/reroll/respec her.

As for rp's, I'm prob the most crappy rp holder in my guild but since I do not care and try to make myself usefull in RvR keeping a bit on the defensive side (and rezzing my butt off). Time is plenty tho and somewhere before 2005 I will get my RR2 But as you say, if you want good rp's in RvR, a pure melee class is not the most obvious choice.

Btw, if you play a situation correctly, it is indeed the pally you heal most but on the other hand, no other tank will get harmed. It's either that, or you play AF chant reducing damage so you end up healing less and saving power.

 

[old.Hendrick]

Brannor, I can fully understand why someone would want to play an infiltrator. But for me, they have completely lost their fascination. But then I am not a very competitive RvR person at the moment. I like going on well organised keep takes with the guild, and at those I usually feel very useful. To me it seems that 70% of all infiltrators roll those with the sole aim of owning all other people in the game. I can completely understand that, but still I don't have to like it.

 

[old.Revz]

What doesn't help things is the fact that solo hunting in RvR (for classes that can do it) is superior to all other forms of RP gaining. At least in PvE grouping is faster exp than soloing so it encourages people to do so.

Basically RvR is broken in this game and always will be. Mythic have created for themselves the design equivalent of an NP-complete problem to solve as regards balancing each class and realm against each other.

 

[danskmacabre]

What do RP's actually do for you?

 

[old.Wicoa]

I see plenty of armsmen pottering about on prydwen Albion.

There maybe many scouts at lower levels but no one takes them to a high level or even to 50 cause the rejection for groups is through the roof. I am lucky to have the guild I do to help me.

Tanks are very much needed in rvr, skirmishes maybe difficult but when taking keeps or defending them they are absolutely vital, key to any plan of attack or defense.

RP's increases your status within your realm and gives you bounty points which you can spend on orb's and they are one time use only items e.g to fully restore life etc.

 

[krait]

Originally posted by danskmacabre
What do RP's actually do for you?

Adds +1 to every skill for every Realm Rank you gain...makes it worthwhile to RvR as much as possible.

Realm rank 2 is 7500 approx ( +1 to skills),Realm rank 3 ( +2 to skills ) is 65000 approx,Realm rank 4 ( +3 to skills ) is 220,000 approx.

 

[old.Revz]

The thing that a lot of people are aiming for is having the most RP. That means you get your name on the top of the scoreboard (when GOA actually get the XML working) and the rarest realm rank titles.

In actual game terms they provide small bonuses at the moment. For each realm rank (there are 10 in total) you get +1 to all of your skills. In future patches you get realm abilities on which you can spend points earned through realm ranks (1 point per realm level of which there are 10 levels per rank). The realm abilities are pretty good so it is worth getting a few realm ranks if you can.

As a by product of getting RP you also earn your guild bounty points with which you pay for claimed keeps.

 

[old.chesnor]

The problem is, it takes a few months for the dedicated to take a char to 50. When they decide to roll a class, it is generally on the performance of that class at that point in time. e.g. Player thinks, "omg, Hunters rule RvR, ______ is RR6, they own", and rolls a Hunter. 3 months down the line while he's approaching 50 Mythic decide archers are overpowered (and they were) and nerfs. 3 months down the pan. So he rolls an assassin. Repeat ad infintum.

And another thing about asassins, they do so well right now, but look at the impact of See Hidden + A larger than normal population of Assassins. They are going to kind of cancel each other out. Caster takes assassin with him to the frontiers with See Hidden and you have a safe caster. Assassins are only fun right now because THERE AREN'T MANY OTHER ASSASSINS. Understand ?

People generally fail to look into the future a bit. Brannor bemoans the performance of tank classes in RvR, yet Mythic are looking at this very problem in 1.52. Obviously when Mythic looks at class population in the realms, RP earners and gets feedback from its customers (i.e. whines on IGN boards) it gets the nerf stick out. I fully expect asassins to get smacked down with it pretty soon (except Nightshades, who are the only non-overpowered Assassin out there)

I have actually rolled a tank in anticipation of 1.52, he is nearly 20 now, and I shall park him up outside Thidranki and await 1.52.

 

[kr0n]

Tanks are gimps in RvR 'cause soloing is hard with em. You dont get tons of RPs in groups. Which is rather lame :/

Tanks make good cannon fodder in RvR. And with decent CC tanks just own. Just mez and tanks go bash the shit outta enemies.

 

[old.Hendrick]

I'm a fighter person. Always have and always will be. I will get my merc to 50, and wait for those new dark-paladin guys in Albion, coming with the expansion. The only other class I'll give a try will be the skald, because he fights and has speed. Oh my, how nice But I do believe in my mercenary, and once I am 50 and will go RvR more, I'll see how good or bad I perform. Also I love my character because of the roleplaying around him. It's just so much fun being Hendrick

 

[Glema]

On the subject of not being able to get many RP's while grouped, don't Mythic try and help this in 1.49 by giving double RP's to full groups of 8?

I know that wont match the the reate at which soloing stealthers gather RP, but should be an improvement and motivate people to form groups.

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
a pally now has the same hit points (i ebleive icould be wrong) as an armsman and has nearly the same parry and blocking. he can also use damage chant to increase damage done in a group with no wizard

A paladin is a hybrid class, and as such is on a lower hp table, and may I add, considerably lower.

If mythic were fair enuff across realms, I would expect Paladin to be on rogue HP table, just like skalds and thanes.

danskmacabre - u want a not gimped melee class in Albion? try a Sword/Shield/Bow using Scout with Slam (42 shield style)

Very Very versatile class, melees well and has range

Regarding group realm points.

Mythics answer to that problem is a 12.5% rp bonus for every person in a group.

ie 2 guys group up, thats a 25% bonus to rp earned by those 2 guys, 8 guys group, thats 100% bonus, ie 2x the rp for each kill.

with one shot kills not letting assasins stay stealthed, their kill opportuniteis will be greatly reduced as they cant just go 1 shotting in packs of playeres as they will unstealth and get ganked.

have some faith, and Tanks will start to shine...a bit...in RvR.

The only tank I know that has ludicrous rp on our server is Enki, guess what class she is? yup SKALD, add to that she seems to play round the closk, and no wonder she clocked up so many rp, but it reinorces my opinion that atm the most effective tanks are skalds, as they can hunt solo in the frontiers with their speed, shouts, mezz and therefore earn full rp for solo kills.

 

[danskmacabre]

Originally posted by Solid
danskmacabre - u want a not gimped melee class in Albion? try a Sword/Shield/Bow using Scout with Slam (42 shield style)

Very Very versatile class, melees well and has range

Thanx for the info, I was sort of considering a Scout actually, I like the idea of using a bow..
I was watching a scout using the bow last night and it looked fun, also I've not used range weapons yet, so It'd be a nice change. and it'd be great to be a melee class as well, which I haven't really run either.

 

[starblade]

and has nearly the same parry and blocking. he can also use damage chant to increase damage done in a group with no wizard

Not true, as said, pally's are hybrid fighters. Their true power come out in a group when e.g. boosting all party members Af with 200+
We will never have the same blocking/parry rate since a fair amount of our skill points go into chants -or should go into chants- to bestow this benefit on our group members. It would be the same as training crossbow to 49 for an armsman while dividing the rest of the points on slash/shield/parry.

I am fully aware of the fact that almost anything in RvR will wals over me. I charge when all charge but in e.g. caster fights, I look out for stealthers and rezz downed scouts, ... and playing a very background role.

 

[old.ZonithWymkeeper]

Tanks suck u say?? well meet my elf champ in rvr and we will see..... hmm u'll prolly kick my ass, but ill bring martha

Fear the über killer
<--------Martha

 

[old.tRoG]

i did not retire my thane because he sucked at rvr.. i retired him because i had gimped him horribly
ever heard of an axe and sheild thane with high parry, low sheild, medium axe and 2/3 stormcalling?

in the end he couldnt even solo a blue!

[EDIT:did i mention he was a troll with amazingly low dex? i had also managed to mangle up his starting pts, putting pts into charisma so that he could chat up female tr00ls? i was a bit of a n00b to the game at that time...]

 

[Solid]

lol tRoG

how rthe fuck u do that?

were u stoned and pissed everytime u dinged and trained?