Is enough never enough?

[farathorn_nexus]

First of all I want to point out that regardless of the content of this post I´m not here to say that any certain realm whines more than others etc etc. The reason for the Mid/Alb thing in this thread is just because I don´t have much experience from Hib. Some people whine and others simply plays the game - that´s just how it is. However, after spending several hours of reading various forums I have got the picture that the common opinion (maybe not by the majority of albs) is that Alb is the realm contributing with the most whine...especially on VN boards. I´m not saying this is the truth but all them posts about classes, nerfs, RA:s etc made me take a look at the melee classes in Mid and Alb (since these are the two realms that I have played the most, and also mainly as a melee class).

I´ve been a Middy since beta and I like being a Middy regardless of what happens during the upcoming patches. I have seen Mid classes being changed alot since beta..both for better and for worse. I guess that´s just how things goes...

Anyway, to get to the issue. After reading many posts on VN boards etc that were adressed to the savages and how they should be nerfed aswell as all posts about the upcoming nerf of LA etc I came to think about the melee classes in Mid compared to Alb. It seems to me that there are a fairly amount of Albs constantly getting irritated about Mids so called superiour melee classes. The thing I want all these Albs to ask themselves are:

Woud you post 1.62 want to switch..

Minstrel for Skald?
Paladin for Thane?
Merc for Zerk?
Infil for SB?

I know these are not all classes but at least the majority of all the classes that mainly uses melee in each realm. Looking purely at the above mentioned I know as a Middy I´d easily make the trades. As a melee playing Middy I can´t do anything else than congratulate you Albs on several very nice classes. However, I´m a Middy and I´ll live with what Mythic desides to give me, and that will make me happy as long as I´m surrounded with nice firends in a nice community.

The thing is...is enough never enough? Why whine instead of be happy of all the nice things that are right in front of you in your own realm. Be happy about what you got, and try to make suggestions to the devs about improvement of your own classes in the areas where you feel that they are lacking instead of whining about the classes of the other realms. I think alot of us are actually pretty tired of reading such whine and nerf threads all over again and again and again....I know I am anyway. Would be much more fun to see more contructive threads about classes, realm balance etc on the forums.

 

[DaggerElivager]

Amen to you m8y

 

[cHodAX]

Thing is for a long time those 4 middy classes you mentioned were better than the Alb conterparts, now the pendulum has swung towards Albion but I don't doubt that Mythic will continue to play with balance and at some point Midgard will be improved. Midgard has had a very good run when it comes to having the upperhand as far as melee classes go, I doubt Albion will have more than 6 months. Ontop of that let me add that Midgard got the 2 strongest new classes in Shrouded Isles and one of the is probably the best melee class in the game.

 

[old.Hendrick]

I would switch from Merc to zerker, actually. Because it's not like we've been made better than them, they only got toned down. I'm sure that's bad for them, but it's not like we mercs got anything substantially better than them now. The biggest change we got was an overhaul of our dirty trick, and many people argue that it was actually better the way it was before.

 

[Flesh]

Would you swop a runemaster for a wizard?
Would you swop a warrior for an armsman?
Would you swop a savage for a reaver?
Would you swop a bonedancer for anything?
Answer to all of those is no.

 

[farathorn_nexus]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
Thing is for a long time those 4 middy classes you mentioned were better than the Alb conterparts, now the pendulum has swung towards Albion but I don't doubt that Mythic will continue to play with balance and at some point Midgard will be improved. Midgard has had a very good run when it comes to having the upperhand as far as melee classes go, I doubt Albion will have more than 6 months. Ontop of that let me add that Midgard got the 2 strongest new classes in Shrouded Isles and one of the is probably the best melee class in the game.

Yes I agree and that´s one of the points I tried to make even if I might been alittle unclear about it (my poor english maybe ). Like you said I also think that the mentioned melee classes used to be alittle stronger in Mid earlier and that Alb has the advantage of that now, due to the past and present patches. I aslo agree that our SI classes were made strong although I´m not the man to compare them to the Alb SI classes since I haven´t experienced them enough. But I do know that I think our BD:s just are alittle too much. However, the thing I was trying to say in my first post was that I wish more peolpe would be positive about the classes they have got and also try to help develop them through out good suggestions instead of nagging and whining on the other two realms all the time.

 

[farathorn_nexus]

Originally posted by Flesh
Would you swop a runemaster for a wizard?
Would you swop a warrior for an armsman?
Would you swop a savage for a reaver?
Would you swop a bonedancer for anything?
Answer to all of those is no.

Can´t answer for the classes I´ve never played but I could think about switching my warrior for a pole armsman.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Flesh
Would you swop a runemaster for a wizard?
Would you swop a warrior for an armsman?
Would you swop a savage for a reaver?
Would you swop a bonedancer for anything?
Answer to all of those is no.

Runie purely because they have far more utilty than wizards

Warrior - Armsman is a tough call, not played either enough to decide

Savage is the strongest melee class around when played well

Bonedancer is an disgrace, played well they are stupidly overpowered but even played by doofus they are still to much. As I have said before, instas are killing this game and Bonedancer is the pinnacle of 'Insta Stupidity'.

 

[klavrynd]

post 1.62 ill happily trade my zerk in for a merc

 

[-Nxs-]

Two things to mention

Although similar the classes you listed are pretty much different - designed for different rolls and functions, but to answer your question, id rather keep alb than change to a mid hybrid

Also, Alb classes were fixed some time ago, Hib are mainly fixed in 1.62 there has to be a review ov the mid classes comming up

 

[Flesh]

Originally posted by klavrynd
post 1.62 ill happily trade my zerk in for a merc

Post 1.62...
implies that up until 1.62 zerks > merc hands down ;<

 

[mavericky]

There are loads of classes in that are very different but all in all the realms seem pretty balanced at the moment, tweaking classes seems to be the order of the day to remove the frustration out of the game.

If people spent less time calling for nerfs and more time trying to think positively then things like caster interupts and resists may have been looked at sooner, helping far more of the community.

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Hendrick
I would switch from Merc to zerker, actually. Because it's not like we've been made better than them, they only got toned down. I'm sure that's bad for them, but it's not like we mercs got anything substantially better than them now. The biggest change we got was an overhaul of our dirty trick, and many people argue that it was actually better the way it was before.

ok now dont quote me on this because im not 100% sure about these things, but after 1.62 LA damage is brought on par with other realms, so for example we should see mercs and zerks hitting equal ammount of damage? if im right then the obvious advantage a merc gets over a Zerker is to wear chain armour.

Dont quote me on that tho cause im not sure if they hit harder, same, or weaker

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Melachi[Mid]
ok now dont quote me on this because im not 100% sure about these things, but after 1.62 LA damage is brought on par with other realms, so for example we should see mercs and zerks hitting equal ammount of damage? if im right then the obvious advantage a merc gets over a Zerker is to wear chain armour.

Dont quote me on that tho cause im not sure if they hit harder, same, or weaker

They also get trainable shield so I would have thought that Zerkers should hit a little harder to make up for their lack of defence (armour and shield spec).

 

[cHodAX]

Swings and roundabouts, many mercs would trade ratmode for dirty tricks. Also you need to think about the race played, there are tradeoffs on both sides. Also remember that zerker has evade 3 compared to evade 1 on merc, that alone justifys the mercs chain.

 

[tris-]

i agree 100% and if you dont like it why cant you just quit? people act like its the end of the world, its just a game people, pull your self together!

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by Flesh
Post 1.62...
implies that up until 1.62 zerks > merc hands down ;<

Not really,only in ratmode maybe and low qui yes which a merc can't really have.

Besides people will always see one thing as overpowered from one realm being all different and one thing that always turns the tide in fights... like alb bolt range mez... mid aoe stun... hib instant mez.

Heh the whines will never end unless they made the realms very similar which then people would not want and would of been fed up of the game a long time ago.

Also chodax zerk may have evade 3 but chain is far better than studded and evade rate goes down half each time a target adds onto you.I have played a high lv zerk and to be honest i played my merc more maybe because he's high rr,but his defence was better although the zerk seemed to do more damage,you can't have both anyway mercs do decent damage as it is so zerks still will.

 

[Azal]

Originally posted by Flesh
Post 1.62...
implies that up until 1.62 zerks > merc hands down ;<

Actually it more likely implies that post 1.62 zerks are gimped with 40% dmg reduction

 

[stafford]

maybe you should stop looking at classes having cross realm counterparts and realise on a whole you need a grp to be effective
no matter what class you play
(with the exception of assasins and bonedancers)

every realm has the basic skills needed for an effective RvR group

Speed
AoE CC
Healing
Resists
Good hard hiting tanks

but if you line the classes with there supposed "counterparts" there skills arent the same

it isnt a matter of comparing single classes

compare a full group and see the similarities there

 

[cHodAX]

Except one realm is badly missing any form of useable AE insta CC

 

[old.Jeriraa]

/hunter_whine on

Wee, Midgard TEH MELEE realm!!!


Ranger melee: dex/quick, str buff and dmg add from pathfinding, spec in thrust, slash and dual wield, evade 3

Scout melee: specable shield, evade 3, spec in thrust and slash

Hunter melee: dex/quick buff, pet (dmg add?) from beastcraft, spec in slash or slash (there is no 16.5dps craftable thrust spear), evade 2 (used to have evade 1 only till 2 patches ago)

Now Scouts and Rangers aint only the better melee archers. They are also the better archers.

Ranger/Scout has access to 5.5spd bows with greater range than hunters.
Ranger damage add affects arrows.
Scout with slam, pb-crit shot is evul.


Who is Mythic trying to kidd by calling Midgard the melee realm?

Edit: Dont even get me started comparing the style effects and chains of the different archers.

 

[old.Jeriraa]

doh, nerf double posts

 

[Yussef]

Originally posted by old.Jeriraa
Who is Mythic trying to kidd by calling Midgard the melee realm?

Hi, quote them, bye.

 

[Flesh]

Originally posted by old.Jeriraa
/hunter_whine on

Wee, Midgard TEH MELEE realm!!!


Ranger melee: dex/quick, str buff and dmg add from pathfinding, spec in thrust, slash and dual wield, evade 3

Scout melee: specable shield, evade 3, spec in thrust and slash

Hunter melee: dex/quick buff, pet (dmg add?) from beastcraft, spec in slash or slash (there is no 16.5dps craftable thrust spear), evade 2


Now Scouts and Rangers aint only the better melee archers. They are also the better archers.

Ranger/Scout has access to 5.5spd bows with greater range than hunters.
Ranger damage add affects arrows.
Scout with slam, pb-crit shot is evul.


Who is Mythic trying to kidd by calling Midgard the melee realm?

Swop?
You can have a scout instead of your hunter..
We'll take insta ae stun and best pbaoe class in the game.
Agreed..Midgard is not the melee realm.

 

[old.Jeriraa]

Originally posted by Flesh
Swop?
You can have a scout instead of your hunter..
We'll take insta ae stun and best pbaoe class in the game.
Agreed..Midgard is not the melee realm.

I'm also playing a 45 pac healer in RvR. My insta cc is hardly ever used as a 1st strike weapon. You wanna know why? Lets see what I got:

AE mezz: Tranquilize Area, cast time 3 sec., radius 350, dur. 65 sec.
Insta ae mezz: Pacifying Glare, Instant, radius 150, dur. 26 sec.

AE stun: Nullify Charge, cast time 2.5 sec., radius 250, dur. 10 sec.
Insta ae stun: Paralyzing Glare, Instant, radius 150, dur 9 sec.

Using insta mezz or insta stun means handing out free cc resists for 1 minute. What do you think how long a 9 second stun last on someone at the edge its radius? Will he even notice it with SC armor?

But well, imho Mythic should remove the whole stun and mezz crap all together.

 

[Cybwyn]

Scout melée.....

rofl. Have any scouts hit you with their swords then?

 

[grizlasthehero]

scouts hit harder than my healer fyi ;p but they always have 2 infs to back em up!

 

[old.k70]

Be happy about what you got, and try to make suggestions to the devs about improvement of your own classes in the areas where you feel that they are lacking instead of whining about the classes of the other realms.

All those thinking along these lines have no clue what it's like to balance anything. You can't improve 30 odd classes because there is an overpowered one. Try that and you would just create one huge mess with more inbalance than you could imagine. You have to nerf the few vastly overpowered ones (ie Zerkers, Savages, Shadowblades, Bonedancers, Infiltrators, Mana Chanters, you name it) back in line to the others.

And please please cut that "Midgard is the melee realm and therefore should have superior melee classes" crap. Description doesn't drive balance, it's the other way around.

 

[farathorn_nexus]

Originally posted by old.k70
All those thinking along these lines have no clue what it's like to balance anything. You can't improve 30 odd classes because there is an overpowered one. Try that and you would just create one huge mess with more inbalance than you could imagine. You have to nerf the few vastly overpowered ones (ie Zerkers, Savages, Shadowblades, Bonedancers, Infiltrators, Mana Chanters, you name it) back in line to the others.

So basically you mean that they should all roll back everything to the stage where the game went live after the beta period? Unfortunately I don´t think that would be a very good solution either, but that´s just me. I think development is apart of the game or it wouldn´t last very long. However, I think and hope that lots of good and useful suggestions from us players (not whine) will help Mythic to finally do a more complete overall work with all the classes, RA:s etc of this game when the RvR patch gets live. I wont hope for too much but as long as the whine mentality rules that will not exactly make the odds better I think. Afterall it should be in every players interest to get the game as good as possible.

Also, you´re mentioning that all it takes is to nerf a few vastly classes like Zerkers, Savages, SB:s, BD:s, Infils, Chanters, you name it....like Palas, Friars, Champs, Minstrels, Healers, Shammies? Well, I dont´think that´s the solutions cause first of all that sounds more like 30 odd ones to me rather than a few vastly and it´s all about the eye of the beholder so I guess you´d get pretty much the majority of all classes in the game, with a few exeptions to be nerfed, if you asked around the different realms.

Originally posted by old.k70
And please please cut that "Midgard is the melee realm and therefore should have superior melee classes" crap. Description doesn't drive balance, it's the other way around.

I take it you did adress someone else with that statement cause I don´t remember claiming Mid as the melee realm...

 

[Dook_Pug]

Originally posted by Flesh
Would you swop a runemaster for a wizard?
Would you swop a warrior for an armsman?
Would you swop a savage for a reaver?
Would you swop a bonedancer for anything?
Answer to all of those is no.

Agree.

...Humm, agreeing with Flesh. Ouch. oO