Iraq video

[Tom]

http://www.wimp.com/iraqis/

Not very professional behaviour lads, but then again its not nice to chuck rocks and bottles at soldiers.

 

[Uncle Sick]

... but then again we are so much better than them and represent freedom and democrazy. Right? Right.

 

[DaGaffer]

http://www.wimp.com/iraqis/

Not very professional behaviour lads, but then again its not nice to chuck rocks and bottles at soldiers.

I'd be a little more understanding if we hadn't spent the last couple of years projecting the image of the British Army in Iraq as cuddly fluffy bunnies next to the hardass Americans. You reap what you sew.

Of course the Iraqis will use this as political capital (rightly), but the sad truth is, if these protesters had been facing fellow Iraqis (or any other army in the Moslem world), they wouldn't have just got a kicking, and they wouldn't have been facing soliders armed with sticks and riot shields; they'd have been shot on the spot, or been beaten, tortured then shot. Which doesn't make what these guys are doing right, but you have to have context.

 

[xane]

I'd be a little more understanding if we hadn't spent the last couple of years projecting the image of the British Army in Iraq as cuddly fluffy bunnies next to the hardass Americans. You reap what you sew.

Some Iraqis seem to think our lads are okay

 

[DaGaffer]

Some Iraqis seem to think our lads are okay

And others don't (since someone shot the poor sod). What does that prove? My point was that the PR job that's been done on the British Army was always going to prove a hostage to fortune. When you get right down to it, these guys are soldiers, not policemen. Granted, they make better policemen than the Yanks, but its still a relative thing. I personally think that this video is nothing like as serious as Abu Ghraib (which was premeditated and systematic, which I'm not sure is true in the British case), but if you set yourself up as Dixon of Dock Green in desert camo, its going to seem worse when something like this inevitably happens.

 

[Ono]

If these had been riot police in the UK dealing with a bunch of chavs or that bunch of anti-captialists I would not bat an eyelid. Similar situation here.

Worst thing is the comments made by the camerman - makes it look worse.

 

[DaGaffer]

If these had been riot police in the UK dealing with a bunch of chavs or that bunch of anti-captialists I would not bat an eyelid. Similar situation here.

Worst thing is the comments made by the camerman - makes it look worse.

Nah, that's not true. Coppers getting stuck in during a riot is one thing, but if you then saw them take some chavs around the back of building and kick 'em in the nuts after the event there'd be a hell of a fuss. The fact they probably do just that sometimes is a different issue

 

[Calaen]

If these had been riot police in the UK dealing with a bunch of chavs or that bunch of anti-captialists I would not bat an eyelid. Similar situation here.

Worst thing is the comments made by the camerman - makes it look worse.

I agree the voice during the beatings was far worse, he sounded like some deranged pervert getting off on watching it.

 

[Maljonic]

I agree the voice during the beatings was far worse, he sounded like some deranged pervert getting off on watching it.

That's what I thought, said to my wife that he sounds like he's having a wank.

 

[throdgrain]

I couldnt care less personally.

 

[yaruar]

http://www.wimp.com/iraqis/

Not very professional behaviour lads, but then again its not nice to chuck rocks and bottles at soldiers.

I don't see why anyone is suprised that squaddies randomly beat up people they come across. Yeah, they may be heros for putting their lives on the line, but as anyone who grew up near barracks towns will know, soldiers like mindless violence. Back at home almost all my friends had been beaten up by squaddies (one was nearly blinded when walking past a squaddie pub as someone just walked up to him and glassed him in the face and walked away apologising) to the point where the army actually placed a curfew so they couldn't go drinking in Guildford at night.... I can only imagine that under the stresses of war zones it just gets worse.

 

[GDW]

This is no different to how the British army treated many civilians in Northern Ireland. What I find shocking is the fact that anybody is surprised by this sort of behavior and it is one of the reasons why your country is, after USA, the most hated western civilisation in the world.

 

[throdgrain]

Ay? How do you actually know anything about that video? Does it not seem possible that for a start the voiceover may have been added later? Its just as well it was British troops trying to control that riot, quite likely Iraqi ones would have shot them
As far as the most hated county in the world goes, strange that, considering everyone seems to want to live here ...

 

[FozzySon]

I couldnt care less personally.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[GDW]

Ay? How do you actually know anything about that video? Does it not seem possible that for a start the voiceover may have been added later? Its just as well it was British troops trying to control that riot, quite likely Iraqi ones would have shot them
As far as the most hated county in the world goes, strange that, considering everyone seems to want to live here ...

I thought you didnt care.....make up your mind

The reason why people are attracted to Britain is because its an easy touch.... its as simple as that.

You dont see too many other European countries who have envoked the wrath of terrorists for the past forty years. That sort of says something about the sort of nation it is.

Dont get me wrong I dont hate Britain at all, Im just trying to come at this thread at a different angle.

 

[xane]

Dont get me wrong I dont hate Britain at all, Im just trying to come at this thread at a different angle.

I find it a most intriguing angle, where you seem to imply there is something wrong with the _victims_ of terrorism.

 

[throdgrain]

I thought you didnt care.....make up your mind

Not at all, I dont care whether that happened at all, I do care however about your (implied) opinion of my country, and therefore feel compelled to answer your post

 

[GDW]

There is nothing wrong with the _victims_ of terrorism. However, the British government, ( democratically elected by the _victims_ of terrorism) and its foreign policies over the years, have brought a lot of undesirable attention in the form of terrorism. Yet other Western European countries have not. There must be a reason for this, no?

 

[GDW]

Not at all, I dont care whether that happened at all, I do care however about your (implied) opinion of my country, and therefore feel compelled to answer your post

Spoken like a true English man

 

[throdgrain]

That I take as a complement, whether it was meant that way or not !

 

[xane]

Yet other Western European countries have not. There must be a reason for this, no?

The major terrorist threat in the UK prior to 9/11 was from Irish extremists, religiously inspired activists fighting over territory control, this is not an unusual response in similar situations the world over, you can point to Basque ETA and Spain for example.

France has experienced limited terrorism on its mainland from extremists in it's colonies as late as 1995, and there was Baader-Meinhof in Germany back in the 1970s, and the Red Brigade in Italy, and N17 in Greece.

 

[Ormorof]

Ay? How do you actually know anything about that video? Does it not seem possible that for a start the voiceover may have been added later? Its just as well it was British troops trying to control that riot, quite likely Iraqi ones would have shot them
As far as the most hated county in the world goes, strange that, considering everyone seems to want to live here ...

it does sound like abit of a voice over tbh...

 

[GDW]

Xane, all valid points, but they were all on a much much smaller scale than what the UK has experienced. I'd go as far as to say ( and I have no hard facts to back this up) that if you added up all the deaths/injuries/monetary damage inlicted by terrorism on all of those countries that you mentioned, it would still be a fraction of that bourne on the UK over the years.

 

[Whipped]

Yes, and if you added up how many of those deaths/injuries and monetary damage were done by the IRA and which were done by other sources, I think you'd find the other sources column looking a little small.

 

[xane]

Xane, all valid points, but they were all on a much much smaller scale than what the UK has experienced.

The argument was why Britain is unique is attracting terrorism, the argument is false, Britain is not unique, and nearly all British terrorist incidents are linked with a single cause.

The circumstances of pre-9/11 terrorism in the UK are repeated worldwide, they are due to territorial disputes and usually involve some underlying religious or cultural difference, by restricting the argument to Europe (which admittedly has few examples), you are evading the real reason why.

 

[GDW]

I am not arguing anything, Im discussing facts. Britain, after America is, globally, the the least respected Western nation. For the past forty years it has been the victim of terrorism on a scale greater seen than in any other Western nation ( with the exception of the USA).

The video link posted in this thread is an indirect example of why this is so. It is an example of brutality inflicted upon the citizens of an illegally occupied country and an incident which only serves to incite hatred and recruit more terrorists.

 

[Tom]

Least respected? Got figures for that? Percentage poll of world population, 26% of all people said "Britain is shit"

?

 

[xane]

I am not arguing anything, Im discussing facts. Britain, after America is, globally, the the least respected Western nation.

Do you have proof of that ? I'd say that was speculation not fact, I don't think France is that respected elsewhere in the world. Once again you restrict your argument to "Western Nations", nicely excluding past baddies Russia (USSR), China and Japan.

Terrorism in Britain spans many years and is all from one dispute, in order to compare you need similar situations.

 

[GDW]

Of course I have proof, why on earth would I make such a profiund statement of fact without evidence.

 

[Furr]

I have a feeling that most the general public couldn't care less anymore, myself im rather indifferent to the middle east now. Think its about time we let them kill each other and let the yanks bomb any state that is making nukes.