Iranians in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!!!!

[CorNokZ]

It got him I believe

 

[Platin]

Until Israel accept the two state solution, as supported by pretty much EVERY country in the world except of course US and Israel there will still be problems in the area.

Noam Chomsky on Israel, Lebanon and Palestine

Platin i think you'll find this article interesting.

It's pretty one sided to say the least, he brings up some vital points though. But considering he's leftist and doesn't even have an academic background that is even remotely related to the subject, one should look critically at what he says and claims.

For example: "Yet the day before, Israeli forces kidnapped two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother, and sent them to the Israeli prison system where they can join innumerable other Palestinians, many held without charges"

First off, is he telling the truth? Is there any source on this, except for his "knowledge"? He claims they were put into prison without charges, again I have to ask, is this true or is he making stuff up to demonize Israel? If they were arrested or "kidnapped" like he puts it, why did it happen? Are they still inprisoned or were they just questioned...and so on. He's not omnipotent, nor is he neutral on the matter.

The one thing that is interesting is the wall though, and I really can't defend how it is built since it's about the same lousy territorial disputes and honestly I think they screwed up real bad.

However if I took an interview of any professional thinker from any right-wing think-tank in America on the subject of Iran and it's hypothetical, future nuclear-arsenal, would you take anything that he he has to say seriously?

Go into wikipedia or any given history book and read up on the history of Israel and the history of the palestinians, make up your own opinion.

The problem with many right or leftist "thinkers" is that they believe the Middle-East issue is either black or white, but it has a pretty big spectrum imo.

 

[Platin]

hey lol ! Yes, was a while ago. You the crazy wizie?

I heard it was the other way around Once you go plat you dont go back!!!

Happy days

Spoiler

omfg lol, I'm on tv!

 

[Platin]

Aye, fair enough, didn't say, but it was rather implied that if "they" get nukes, a Nuclear War would ensue, and not the funny Amiga 500 kind.

Sorry, missed to respond on this one.

No.

I am pro-Israel in many ways, but I think that once Iran and eventually Saudi Arabia gets it, anything could happen. Even though it is an unlikely event, I think anything could lead to something worse, and I definitely think Israel could be the first ones to use a nuclear weapon if they believed they had no choice. Same as Iran. The only way a situation like that could occur is if their enemies have the weapons too.

It's also in the best interest of the world not to spread this technology, or to give other countries reasons to wanting to aquire it.

 

[Chronictank]

Aaaah yes, they should "work" with palestinian authorities - smart! Why haven't someone thought of that before...Let's improve the Taiwan-China relations while we're at it.

You again avoid the FACT that what they did was illegal, by all international laws
there is no justification for it, at all and the only reason they got away with it is because of US backing
It is nothing more than bullying, and as long as Israel remain the sole power in the region the situation will not improve one bit.

Of course you "could", but you didn't. Nor did I ever said it was a one sided situation, I explained how Israel considers it's own situation and views it. Because that is what actually matters from now on. To Clear out: I am not justifying a future "attack" on Iran (since you obviously have trouble reading).

i misread your second post, apologies for that as i was skim reading
i didnt bother posting as
a) it is well documented already, what is the use of re-itterating old information which has been dragged up again and again which we both know and ultimately has little or no point as it doesnt further discussion nor have any relevance to it
b) it will inevitably be traced back to the creation of Israel on stolen land in the most ridiculous place possible
c) the most rescent points have already been posted, equally irrelevant and futile as it is a chicken and egg issue with 'justifications' on both sides which you have admited yourself

Get involved? They are already involved. Who do you think are funding the sunni-groups in Iraq. The sunni-arabs in the Middle East are considering Irans(Shia) increasing power and influence as the biggest current threat. Same goes for Egypt.

And even if the tables were turned: let's say the Saudi Royal family would be overthrown and a unified Islamic world would stand against Israel, does that sound any better from a peaceful point of view(now think PLEASE).

Here is an interesting article on the subject:

PINR - Intelligence Brief: Tensions Increase Between Iran and Saudi Arabia

yet they have been seen to publically make an active effort to bridge the gap in rescent times
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Mid-East vow to curb sectarianism
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Iran, Saudi Arabia sign security pact
seperate source in case you dont like bbc
The Hindu : Front Page : Iran-Saudi accord on key issues
and another for good measure
Iran-Saudi Arabia parliamentary friendship group hold meeting in Riyadh - Irna

Egypt doesn't have diplomatic relations with Iran, and they are one of the biggest sunni-actors

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iran and Egypt 'to restore ties'
again as above

You're an idiot, you started getting personal and insulting me because you lack arguements.

I put it in bold as you seem to also lack the ability to read

Stop being a moron, if you want a civilised debate less of this. If you dont i cba with you
note: if this wasnt meant as a flame i apologise

It came across as a flame and i also added a cop out if it was not, so it was you who drew first blood so to speak


You tell me to think, you think about it
Saudi doesnt NEED to do anything, it doesnt NEED to have the ability to stand up for itself it has others to do it for them so they dont NEED nukes at all
It may be a shitty place but in the world we live in the biggest influence is the one with something to bargain with.
At the moment what do Iran, Syria etc etc have to bargain with? nothing so they are ignored on the global stage.
Nukes = currency to bargain with, and that is what Iran would be after, if they are developing nukes at all

 

[tierk]

Platin, i will try and answer all your questions and remarks in a simple manner.

The remark about joy rides (israeli over flying other countries airspaces is actually spot on. What terrorist activites are taking place in Lebanon today? They have been overflying their neighbours forever. if you dont believe this read this article.....

French Élection 2007: Israeli overflights will continue

They are illegal no matter which way you try to look at it. If for example the British were doing this to the Repulic of Ireland during all the years of problems with the I.R.A in Ulster, there would have been uproar and rightly so.

Bombing targets in all there neighbours countries, please read the following and understand........

BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor

Iraq in the eighties and this just recently....

Channel 4 - News - Did Israel bomb Syria?

Whats changed? Nothing. Business as usual. I wont bother googling other cases as the list is actually quite long.

Extra judicial killings are another way of saying assassinations and guess what it is illegal for governments to go around killing people without a fair trial, well it was the last time i looked. I would have thought the name by itself would have been clue enough.

Your comment

...Says you....

about collective punishment and illegal road blocks is so wide off the mark it is not even funny. The road blocks are illegal because they are illegally occupying terrotory that doesnt belong to them.

Marjorie Cohn: Israel's Collective Punishment of Gaza

or this link.....

No Collective Punishment: Israel Criticized for Power Cuts to Gaza - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

and as i know you are so fond of wiki i have added a link for you describing what collective punishment means so that you can try and explain what the current Israeli policy is in Gaza if not collective punishment......

Collective punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Trying to kill individual people using missles fired from helicopters is in your opinion ok? You have any idea who many people have died every time Israel decides that they want to kill one man?......

William A. Cook: The Yassin Assassination: a Monstrous Insanity Blessed by the US

Nine innocent people killed because the IAF decided to fire multipe missles at a guy in a wheel chair.

I guess that having a picnic on the beach in Gaza is a security risk for Israel?.....

Death on the Beach - TIME

It took the Muslim world a long time to repel the Crusaders and the same will happen with The State of Israel, even if it takes another 300 years.

 

[Hawkwind]

It took the Muslim world a long time to repel the Crusaders and the same will happen with The State of Israel, even if it takes another 300 years.

Likewise it took Europe 400 years to repel the Muslim invaders from Spain but it happened eventually.

Quite amusing that the 'Crusaders' of the failed second crusade were fighting against muslims and jews who were allies.

As for Ahmed Yassin, I shed no tears for a man who advocated violence and helped form the terrorist organisation that is Hamas.

From Wiki -
After a woman's suicide bombing at the Erez crossing on 14 Jan 2004, in which 'Reem Raiyshi' detonated herself, Yassin expressed his atisfaction with the execution of the attack. When asked about the execution of the attack by a woman, Yassin said, "Hamas views women as the reserve force".

 

[tierk]

........As for Ahmed Yassin, I shed no tears for a man who advocated violence and helped form the terrorist organisation that is Hamas......

The reason i mentioned Sheikh Yassin was just an exmaple of killing ten other innocent people to get one person. The collateral damage.

Btw the Moors where in Spain for over 700 years but it is a fitting example.

 

[Hawkwind]

The reason i mentioned Sheikh Yassin was just an exmaple of killing ten other innocent people to get one person. The collateral damage.

Btw the Moors where in Spain for over 700 years but it is a fitting example.

Well if your gonna get picky , yes 700 years for them to be totally removed but some of the northern cities like Toledo were taken back by the Christians between 300-400 years. Can't be arsed to look at exact dates something like 720 - 1070.

As for Ahmed Yassin, I doubt he had any regrets sending the brainwashed suicide bombers in to kill 'innocent' non combatant jews in markets, hotels and disco's. So, if your saying they are as bad as each other then I totally agree. If your saying this is a one sided thing and only the jews are at fault then sorry but all evidence to the contary.

just reread this - a bit harsh, been in a 2 hour meeting/presentation from our sales team, so rather cranky. 2 hours of listening to BS will do that

 

[Chronictank]

been in a 2 hour meeting/presentation from our sales team, so rather cranky. 2 hours of listening to BS will do that

lol some things dont change regardless where you live

 

[tierk]

....So, if your saying they are as bad as each other then I totally agree. If your saying this is a one sided thing and only the jews are at fault then sorry but all evidence to the contary....

No i am not saying that its all the Jews fault.

but if you scroll down this link to the section that is headed, Casualties you will see a list of the numbers of deaths over the last few years. It speaks for itself.

Its from wiki and i know people hate the thing but it seems to be some sort of gay standard that people like on here........

Israeli-Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So who do i blame??

I wont even begin to dig into the numbers of civilians killed in the last Lebanese invasion by Israel.

 

[Lamp]

 

[Platin]

Platin, i will try and answer all your questions and remarks in a simple manner.

The remark about joy rides (israeli over flying other countries airspaces is actually spot on. What terrorist activites are taking place in Lebanon today? They have been overflying their neighbours forever. if you dont believe this read this article.....

French Élection 2007: Israeli overflights will continue

They are illegal no matter which way you try to look at it. If for example the British were doing this to the Repulic of Ireland during all the years of problems with the I.R.A in Ulster, there would have been uproar and rightly so.

Short history:

Do you remember PLO, from 1968 until 1982 when Israel invaded Lebanon, they used Lebanon to attack Israel, until Israel kicked them out. From when Israel left Lebanon 1985, Hezbollah("the state within the state") took over and used Lebanon to attack Israel. About one year ago they killed a couple of israeli soldiers and captured two, til another invasion took place. So time and time again, Lebanon has been used by PLO and Hezbollah to provoke and attack and kill israeli civilians and militairy personnel. Now you can argue a fly by is a horrible provocation if it wasn't for the fact that Israel has been provoked by Lebanon and Hezbollah(yes Lebanon, since they havent done shit to stop Hezbollah until after the invasion). If for example France would let a terrorist organization attack England for 20 years without lifting a finger, do you really think England would ignore it. The terrorists didn't learn their lesson before, and most likely they never will.

If I'm not mistaken, one of Israels terms for UNIFILS involvement was their own right to secure their territory and prevent any further rocket attacks on Israel from lebanese territory.

Bombing targets in all there neighbours countries, please read the following and understand........

BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor

Iraq in the eighties and this just recently....

Yes, and ten years earlier (1973) Iraq had tried to destroy Israel with it's fellow arab nations in the 6-day war. They conducted air-raids all over Israel.

Extra judicial killings are another way of saying assassinations and guess what it is illegal for governments to go around killing people without a fair trial, well it was the last time i looked. I would have thought the name by itself would have been clue enough.

Everybodys doing it down there, state funded terrorists are bombing and targetting israeli citizens and israeli intelligence responds by killing them. It's a war that has been going on since 1949.

Your comment about collective punishment and illegal road blocks is so wide off the mark it is not even funny. The road blocks are illegal because they are illegally occupying terrotory that doesnt belong to them.

Marjorie Cohn: Israel's Collective Punishment of Gaza

Those are opinions. The source isn't exactly neutral either. "Grand theft Pentagon", or the "Imperial crusades: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia". Couldn't you have found a slightly better source that isn't based on opinions and unfounded criticism?

This is my favorite part:
"Before Israel's invasion of Gaza last week, Hamas was beginning to retreat from its position that Israel has no right to exist. But Financial Times quoted Efraim Halevy, Israel's most widely respected security expert, as saying, "Why should Israel care whether Hamas grants it the right to exist. Israel exists and Hamas's recognition or non-recognition neither adds to nor detracts from that irrefutable fact.""

A. Israel is a state, Hamas is not, nor is it a representative for the whole palestinian people.
B. Hamas original objective was to destroy the state of Israel, guess what the current one is.

The same site

or this link.....

No Collective Punishment: Israel Criticized for Power Cuts to Gaza - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

This the only point I agree with, I think this is wrong.

Put it in context, in comparison to what Israel constantly has been subjected to by it's neighbours.

and as i know you are so fond of wiki i have added a link for you describing what collective punishment means so that you can try and explain what the current Israeli policy is in Gaza if not collective punishment......

Collective punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, all wiki, wiki wiki wiki ...or not. It's after all, not a reliable source

Trying to kill individual people using missles fired from helicopters is in your opinion ok? You have any idea who many people have died every time Israel decides that they want to kill one man?......

William A. Cook: The Yassin Assassination: a Monstrous Insanity Blessed by the US

Nine innocent people killed because the IAF decided to fire multipe missles at a guy in a wheel chair.]

Yes, poor innocent founder of Hamas. Crocodile tears!

I guess that having a picnic on the beach in Gaza is a security risk for Israel?.....

Death on the Beach - TIME

What is your point? They intentionally bombed the beach for the heck of it?

BBC - Search results for "israelis dead"

Here enjoy, a page of articles of innocent israeli civilians, killed by terrorists.

It took the Muslim world a long time to repel the Crusaders and the same will happen with The State of Israel, even if it takes another 300 years.

Not likely.


I'll answer to Chronics post tomorrow, and come up with some sources for this one tomorrow too. I'm dead beat .

I didn't mean to insult you chronic, I misread what you had written, thought you called me a "moron", so it was a response to that. I apologize