Interesting

[Maleg_Grumpton]

Melachi,

Not sure if I agree with you totally. A fair few gank groups in the US are whining that the ML's and ToA items appear to give power to the Zerg. Basically it's turned it into a numbers fight from some of the posts I've read. Now I don't play US and I know mosts people post whines or brags so you can't really get an accurate picture. From what I can see yes it will widen the gap between high RR FG's and random FG's..... but lets face it losing in 30 seconds or losing in 25 seconds makes very little difference. I think high RR groups will have more trouble taking down 2 - 3 FG's of enemys though, if reports are acurate.

I also get the feeling there is an incoming nerf for high RR groups with this frontiers expansion. A couple of sentances in Mythic releases recently have indicated a massive overhall of the RA system (not just a tweak) as part of everything else they're delivering. I get the feeling the uber RA's (GP, BAoD, SoS, BoF) will all be made less effective (if they survive at all). As a disclaimer high RA groups don't 'pwn' on RA's alone, they take their RvR seriously and teamwork and equipement is generally top notch - RA's generally only swing the balance when equally matched oponents meet.

ToA, yep a money spinner, also an attempt to retain some player base for those that wanted more interesting PvE. However one of the main attractions of DAoC is the concept of RvR and they should have got Frontiers done first IMO.

 

[Jaem]

but isn't nuking for about 500 dmg every few sec good enough? Oo

but I've only experienced a lvl 45 caster... dueled with a 50zerker friend a few times, and can kill him ok sometimes... darkspec sm that is

last caster I faced with my sb, unbuffed... PA'd, he surived, CD missed, yet I crawled away with about 5% hp left after the encounter... ice wiz was the caster...

btw, what is the cast speed cap?

 

[Maleg_Grumpton]

Originally posted by Jaem
but isn't nuking for about 500 dmg every few sec good enough? Oo

Depends, if there was no interupt system then it would be vastly overpowered. But in group based fight's there is a ton of interupts. Compare top line offensive tanks (which can hit anywhere from 200 to 600 every 1.5 seconds, uninterupted with determination) to a debufffing nuker (which hits 400 - 500 every second at range, can be interupted, full mez duration effected and is totally useless OOP) and you'll see why Melee in most cases is prefered over casters.

Originally posted by Jaem
but I've only experienced a lvl 45 caster... dueled with a 50zerker friend a few times, and can kill him ok sometimes... darkspec sm that is

Duels ain't RvR - they're a fun gimic to past the time. Casters can deal decent damage (requires debuffing) but most of the time in RvR you have plenty of people trying to interupt you be it via Mez, Root, Anmesia or Melee. Power is also an issue - as a Void Eld out of a single power bar I can cast 20 Cold Nukes (generally not debuffed) - hit for 250 - 350 (515 if debuffed) depending on targets resists (5000 to 7000 HP's worth of damage = 2 - 3 x buffed tanks if not healed) or 15 Heat Nukes which are generally debuffed and hit for 450 - 5000 (6750 - 7500). When you take into account power consumed by debuffing (stat and resist), stun, nearsight etc. You'll get a lot less bang for your bucks.

Originally posted by Jaem
last caster I faced with my sb, unbuffed... PA'd, he surived, CD missed, yet I crawled away with about 5% hp left after the encounter... ice wiz was the caster...

btw, what is the cast speed cap?

Gone are the days of casters being one shot by assassins, however if you land CD the caster usually dies unless they get help or use some pretty expensive RA's. Ice Wizzy probably QC root and ran then used DD Snare on you - nice powerful kiting (not sure if you used snare on him but would have helped).

As for casting speed cap........... there is none AFAIK - my Druid is able to cast small quick heals way under the suposed '2 sec cap' and my Eld casts even faster.

 

[Jaem]

Originally posted by Maleg_Grumpton

Gone are the days of casters being one shot by assassins, however if you land CD the caster usually dies unless they get help or use some pretty expensive RA's. Ice Wizzy probably QC root and ran then used DD Snare on you - nice powerful kiting (not sure if you used snare on him but would have helped).
.

Purged Root tho, so no kiting me, 2-3 nukes and 13xx hp almost gone... this type of encounter with a caster is why I rate casters highly. Aye, may have had a nice crit on both nukes most likely, but good show of what they can do imo.

There is one thing that needs fixing before I play my caster again, is the damn foreward stick foreward stick many use :/ /face doesn't even work, always out of sight, really annoying. Hope that gets changed :/

 

[Maleg_Grumpton]

Originally posted by Jaem
Purged Root tho, so no kiting me, 2-3 nukes and 13xx hp almost gone... this type of encounter with a caster is why I rate casters highly. Aye, may have had a nice crit on both nukes most likely, but good show of what they can do imo.

There is one thing that needs fixing before I play my caster again, is the damn foreward stick foreward stick many use :/ /face doesn't even work, always out of sight, really annoying. Hope that gets changed :/

You're saying a caster averaged 400 HP per nuke on you? I'd get your SC sorted DD's won't do 400 - 600 HP without massive crits on anybody with 26% resists (unless PBAoE). If he was using PBAoE then he must of MoC.

Now this is solo context - groups generally have some sort of resistance buffs - even if it's only the 8 or 16% ones. There is no way any nuker can do 1300 HP worth of damage without using debuffs in group based RvR in 2 - 3 casts.

 

[Jaem]

ice wiz is cold dmg yes?

if so, that is capped...

 

[Danya]

My mentalist in RvR with a spec nuke (effective 60 light spec), 3 power relics, and mom2 was rarely topping 400 without a debuff before I quit (usually around 350 a nuke). Casters don't deal uber damage at all. I have a screenshot of nuking a 26% target - 429 (-151), even that's less than what a lot of tanks can deal.

 

[Jenkz]

generally:

- "light tanks" (the ones you see in these assist trains) can deal more damage than casters (excluding some debuff/pbae exceptions)

- they can deal this damage while running, and cant be interupted

- they can deal this damage indefintly with end regain

casters deal less damage, get interupted by virtually everything, and are OOP after killing 1, maybe 2 people.

 

[Maleg_Grumpton]

My Void Eld (63 Void and 269 Int) DD's with a 171 delve nuke for 283 (-99) on 26 Cold Resists and a massive 221 (-161) on 42 Cold Reists (which would be what I'd have up in RvR). Group RvR you normally run into 40%+ resists vs good oponents. Straight mage damage by itself is no longer uber.

The powerful mage DD'ers that can debuff their own DD's face have two issues. Firstly they're nerfed in 1.65, secondly they've always faced massive power consumption problems.

From all I can see I think Mythic are looking to bring mage damage down a bit and make debuffing damage less also (but still provide an insentive to debuff). What I'm hoping is when they've finished they might relax the interupt system a bit so a Kobbie farting at 100m doesn't interupt (i.e. maybe remove interupts on resisted spells and perhaps CC spells where you're immune to them). It's a fine balacing act - but as it stands melee is stronger than magic in most situations (and IMO easier to play)