Interesting moral dilemma.

[old.Tohtori]

Here's a moral dilemma, of sorts.

This following example take into consideration heaven/hell, morals, and all that hollywood stuff...you know, "cr*p" as they would call it.

There is a boy/man, who will become a mass murdering maniac. This is known, by some form of..way.

You know this, noone else does.

By killing him, you would save thousands...*Lex Luthor steps in* No, millions!!!*steps out* Yes, thanks Lex.

But, by killing him you would become the very thing you were saving humanity from, a killer of innocents, corrupt, hated and all that nasty stuff.

So? Save many by becoming a scum yourself, or let scum kill many and save your own "soul" so to speak.

 

[tierk]

Thats a pretty shitty pair of options you giving there. I would probably suggest that it would be better to be sure he is a killer b4 choppping him but at the same time not to let him go into mass murder mode either.

 

[pez]

Is he going to kill me or anyone i know/care about?

And are there any other repurcussion apart from 'losing my soul?'

If the answer to question 2 is no then kill him either way and if the answer to question 1 is yes then kill him. If the answer to A is no and B is yes then fuck that.

 

[old.windforce]

killing sucks irl

 

[Chronictank]

why wouldnt you just set him up i a controlled enviroment to see what he does

 

[old.Tohtori]

You know for a fact(you just do, seen future, come back, whatever!) that he will become the murderer.

Noone else knows.

If you try to say it, well, imagine the reaction. "Loonie!"

If you kill him, people will treat you like any murderer and you will be judged by all accounts(moral/religion/eart justice/whatnot) as a murderer of an innocent boy/man etc, scum.

If you don't, people will die.

Yes or no, there's no "but what if i do...".

And yes, the options are on purpose sh*tty. That's the dilemma.

EDIT: Actually yes there is "what if i do..." option, but you have to remember, before he kills the people, he's no worse then any innocent.

 

[Amanita]

I would go forewards to a time when he's about to do the deed and stop him.

Hey presto! No dilemma.

 

[Edmond]

cant you just wait until he does his first kill (i know that some poor sod will suffer, but for the sake of thousands.....) and then he will be guilty. He'll get arrested and banged up, your soul is safe

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ok. Maybe i didn't make it as clear as i should, thought of a better example later on.

But the guys gonna blow a nuke, or drop a meteor on earth, or poison the waters of all the countries.

Basically, what would you choose between killing an innocent or millions of people getting killed.

 

[Edmond]

but when people realise you have stopped a maniac, they will forgive you...no?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah but noone will know that.

As you take his life, he's innocent, completely, a freakin jesus.

 

[aika]

Why a boy? fucking shovinist! maybe its a female? (then rape would be in order)

 

[Mey]

Wait till he kills someone then tell the proper authorities.

 

[Bahumat]

There is a boy/man, who will become a mass murdering maniac. This is known, by some form of..way.

You know this, noone else does.

By killing him, you would save thousands...*Lex Luthor steps in* No, millions!!!*steps out* Yes, thanks Lex.

But, by killing him you would become the very thing you were saving humanity from, a killer of innocents, corrupt, hated and all that nasty stuff.

So? Save many by becoming a scum yourself, or let scum kill many and save your own "soul" so to speak.

The bold bit is where this falls flat on its arse. You are not becoming the killer of innocents, you are killing a scum bag.

 

[Lamp]

No I woulnd't kill him
Its not your responsibility. You can't prove anything. Leave it for the police

 

[Overdriven]

Bahu, but to the innocent people, you just killed a person for NO reason (which they'd not know of) ergo, you'd be a murder, scum.

 

[kiliarien]

Well, as you can't be sure he will definitely be a killer unless your method of knowing this is infallible (which is unlikely) the only option is....

Stalk him/her, watch their every move from a young age, see where they go, what they do, become them, and when you know they are ready to strike, CHOP THEM UP, OH YES, THEN SEAL THEM IN BAGS AND THROW THEIR REMAINS INTO A RIVER WEIGHTED DOWN...OH YES!! :saythat:

Oh god, I've seen too much Dexter.

Seriously, toughy options between absolute & relative morality.

 

[confused]

Oh god, I've seen too much Dexter.

season 2 was epic

back on topic:

Kill the bastards

 

[Ch3tan]

Spielberg and Cruise already covered this is a film.

 

[Bahumat]

Bahu, but to the innocent people, you just killed a person for NO reason (which they'd not know of) ergo, you'd be a murder, scum.

He never said anyone had to find out about it/know it was me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Spielberg and Cruise already covered this is a film.

Actually a bit different, but yes, it did slice the subject too.

He never said anyone had to find out about it/know it was me.

Actually did, just not in so many words.

 

[Chronictank]

But if you know what he is going to do then you can just collect evidence as he goes along

 

[Dukat]

This is a good dilemma, I think people saying "I would wait until X Y and Z" are missing the point a little

The idea is - (I think? toh?) - you can either:

Do something right, which everyone else will see as wrong, possibly put you in prision for and hate you for, but end up saving thousands or millions of people.

Or:

You can sit on your hands and have thousands or millions of people die, sure, feel bad about it etc, but essentially not ruin your own life by doing anything about it.

I guess if I was certain enough I would try to kill him, but the sort of certainty I'm talking about here is not something we can ever really have in real life.

Its about self sacrifice and belief, dangerous things as we all know in todays world of suicide bombers who are essentially doing what they see as the right thing I suppose.

Belief is important, I strongly believe we are in the right, despite the politics and ambiguity of the situation.

Its quite worrying, but the thought occurs to me that if I had of been brought up in Iraq or wherever instead of in the west, I could possibly have been the sort of person who would end up being brainwashed into doing some of these terrible things - because my belief in my country is so strong, which is quite a scary thought really.

 

[Chronictank]

i understand that but the example is flawed,
you are making the assumption that there is noone who can legitimately further your enquiry, which is not true in todays world

Whether they act on the intel you provide or not is another matter, but given the current political climate the chances of that are pretty slim

 

[old.Tohtori]

You could ofcourse tell people that "this guy is gonna kill millions!", but with no evidence, as he's still done nothing at all, it wouldn't help at all.

 

[Chronictank]

You could ofcourse tell people that "this guy is gonna kill millions!", but with no evidence, as he's still done nothing at all, it wouldn't help at all.

nop but they will keep an eye on him, but if he hasnt done anything then you are killing a innocent person regardless of what the future may hold, making you a murderer


If you are finding out what he did by seeing into the future then it depends if you think the future is pre-determined. If it is indeed pre-determined then its happened already and you cant do anything to stop it, regardless what you do to him

If it isnt then your evidence is pretty flakey as it is one in millions if not bilions of possibilities, who's to say you have the right one? and you may well be killing a innocent person

If you think he did it based on some evidence then you do indeed have something to take to the authorities

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's why i said "you just know it for a fact"(or some such).

There's no questions like that.

He's innocent until he blows up millions of people, then he's a murdering maniac. You know this, others don't. Let millions die or become a murderer

 

[Chronictank]

if you "just know" with no evidence or trail (you cant jus suddenly blow people up, they will have to at least get the explosive/stuff to make it from somewhere), just knowing is not enough as you could just as easily be wrong. There is no definite in this

I also didnt say wait until they blow people up, i said get evidence before you make your mind up. And in the process you add credibility to the case before it is refered to the authorities

Just knowing is just a start to focus your attention on something, its not the end of the discussion over their guilt

 

[Calaen]

shit options why bother killing him and stopping him from doing it if you yourself are going to do it.

on a side note I would do nothing, why bother.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ngh...overthinkers...

Let's simplify it then:

Either you kill this guy or millions die. *nod*

Simple as that. Call it some form of alien kidnapping and they have their finger on a deathray.

If you kill him, it will be made look like you did it on earth. Shame murderer!
If you don't, millions die.