Innis groups

[Chameleon]

**Winge enclosed**

I've sat in innis for 3 weeks now trying to get groups. I managed to get one on sunday before last, cos I had a whole 4 hours online, so was able to beg my way into a group after 3 hours of trying and got about 1 hour xp at banshees.
3 weeks of sitting in innis trying to convince someone, anyone, that I can contribute to a group ..... with 1 hour and 3 bubbles to show for it. People pretend that ns/ranger are invited into groups more now, but it's simply not true. People even go as far as to pretend that I'm invisible sometimes, by just ignoring me, or pretending they are afk ......... until someone they DO want to give a space to in a group turns up ....... and suddenly they are up on their feet ........ then off towards bw/pooka/banshee/etc.
Surely we are all supposed to be playing this game for fun, grouping with others, ALL gaining xp and chatting and having a laugh along the way ......... so what about the ns's?? Do people think it's fun for us to sit in innis spamming "NS lfg" every 10/20 mins or so or hours on end??? I go out of my way to help others. Infact, I lost count of the number of people who I've helped to level up to my level ... only to watch them level past me and up to 50 without even a thought for the ns that helped them once.
Yeah sure I could start a new alt that everyone loves in a group ..... but surely you play a character cos YOU love PLAYING that character! Well, I used to think my ns was the best thing since sliced bread and couldnt spend enough time in daoc, but since level 40, this game sucks and one more week like the last 3 and I wont be able to face playing the game anymore.
Tanks are always popular in innis, but why not the ns???? The one group I did manage to get into had 1 hero, 1 champ and me tanking a banshee each. The tanks stood there whacking and getting whacked, while I tanked the 3rd (pa chain, DOT, debuff, etc), ALWAYS killed mine before the tanks dropped theirs and was only ever hit once by each banshee at most, with the rest being evaded or misses.
Anyone with an ns alt who thinks it's tough to level or get groups ........ wait till you get to 40+. You can't get groups, period ..... unless you have hours and hours to sit around begging (so, no real life allowed) and solo'ing is a waste of time (6m xp from a yellow con doesnt even move the bar).

Please, anyone whos making innis groups, seriously give thought to inviting ns's ...... even when its not 'just your final spot which the guy u really want to fill it is in DF and cant be arsed to come down'. It's depressing and it's boring.

 

[old.Phlobin]

Sounds familiar to me :/
Best advice is still: Start groups, dont wait for an invitation. U will rarely get uber exp, but its not so frustrating as sitting around in innis.

 

[Lessurl]

Hey it's not just ns's m8, i had exactly the same problem when i was in the low 40's. Everyone asks for pbers in innis grps (or least they did). Used to get pm's. What spec r you m8? I reply Void. I am now ignored from then on. Tho it wasn't quite as bad for me, i could solo thanks to my bolts but after 40 odd lvls of solo i had really got tired of the old, bolt, bolt, dd dd dd dd. Thing.
Thought about quiting at lvl 40-42 at various points, especially after spending over a month on lvl 42 with less than a bub to show for it.
But anyway, you just have to stick with it. Make your own group, will probably end up doin bears or thelike for not too great xp but at least it is some xp. Group with mates and just have a laugh as you do it, even if the xp is crawlin in you'll be enjoyin yourself so much you'll be surprised when u finally look at your bar. Another good tactic is to come to innis with a bard/warden/pber mate who will be wanted in every group and if he's a mate he wont join a grp unless they have space for both of you.
About the helpin people level and gettin ignored, happened to me too. But hey, that's life.

 

[Whandall]

Oh yes i know that problem. 41-44 is damn slow. The fastet way to gain exp with that levels is ez/df/wraith/banshee groups but those groups are PBAE and shades rarely get into those.

Why dont we bring up the Adopt a Shade idea from Ortunga(i think) again?

You all know we dont have very much 50ish shades. Now look at Ablions Infis and Mids Sbs on 50. See? Yes we need more lvl 50 shades!

PS: Daaaadddyyyyyy!!! Hugs Lessurl

 

[JoxerTheMighty]

I know how you feel, Chameleon. Not that I have a shade (not one of sufficient level) but many shademates of mine tell me, how hard it is to get in groups.

But as Phlobin says....don't wait til you get an invite. Start groups of your own, mate. I think that by now you really know what classes you need to get a efficient group. So do a /who 40 and start pm'ming.
I have been to Innis lots of times and honestly..sometimes I see about 5 or 6 Lv4xs in the "Lfg-tab".

 

[PJS]

cheer up Stu, you can always go back to q3

 

[hiane]

Hey Guys

Im a lvl 41 druid andrather than stand around w8ingto get inv to innis groups I will mostly start my own with a ns and or ranger in them.

If you see me there just pm me and ill inv you as I have both NS and ranger alts so tend to be biased when inviting them

Hiane
Lvl 41 Druid and Stalker hostel

 

[Elric IA]

As Zenich is my guildmate, and Whandall is an online friend I know about these problems already. Come level 45, you can get into fins lists as all the fin's groups I have been in have had a ns/ranger spot on the list (and Lessurl is a grand Master of the fins list!).

The problem seems to be in getting from level 40 (CM) to level 45. I do see a problem in that with certain people the class is unpopular (I have had people, who will remain nameless, saying they do not want an xp leech (meaning ns/ranger) in the group). Ironically, most of these have been mages who the NS will help keep alive in RvR by spotting assassins before they PA them. The other problem I see (and it has happened to me and others I have talked to and also people who I know who havent spoken but have seemed to be stuck there for a while) is that there is a gap in levels 40-44 in finding suitable mobs sometimes that do not require a group of 8 to kill as they BAF or are high level or you go through a valley with 5 glimmers attacking you before you can get to some more sensible and predictable mobs. This then tends to mean these levels are slow. I got to level 40 in July but then took well over a month to get to level 44 with some levels taking two weeks. So, to some extent, I think a lot of people have problems at these levels unless you are in a regular mixed xp group.

Solutions to this without being in a regular xp group could be:

1. Hunt the single mobs around Innis (bears, dullhans) which sometimes do not need a full group
2. Hunt far darrigs near Innis which do not BAF and are lower than dullhans (I know a druid and NS who teamed up as a group of two do do this as they could not get into Innis groups)
3. patch 1.53 (yes I know a while off) widens the level gap in groups which means that I can group with a level 41 and his xp is not poor
   [/list=1]
   
   Soloing takes ages and also takes the duration off your equipment as you take all the hits.
   
   One thing that people are not educated about is that a group is not made up of specific classes. Ok you always need a healer and for hard hitting mobs a warden is very useful indeed but you can vary the other classes. For instance, bards and mentalists can be interchanged, Void instead of mana PBAOE works (do /effects self) etc. Some people have fixed ideas and cannot see what other classes are capable of.
   
   Zenich knows that I will help him as much as I can as I am determined to get him to level 50 someway. I think we will even try the innis mobs in a group of two sometime to see how the xp is (most dullhans are yellow to me and I can take them with 60-70% health left). But anyone reading this and setting up groups (and innis groups do tend to be less formalised without lists due to the inaccesibility of some of the xp spots for people to come and replace group members), please dont forget the NS and ranger and especially my friends!

 

[Chameleon]

Thx, I appreciate the posts
I do actually start my own groups (infact I did this the whole way from level 32-40 in cm, which i suppose is why i wasnt moaning about cm groups then in the same way), but it seems a lot harder in innis. I've started maybe 6 or 7 groups at innis since i moved from grouping in cm, but only one got as far as actually killing stuff. Lots of people seem happy to say "sorry guys i have to go out" ...... and then leave and join another group over the other side of town
It helps to know it's not just me tho, and there's some good advice I'll try out.
Thx Elric, I know you try to help whenever you can.

btw, PJS, who are you????

Thx again

Zen

 

[Sleet]

Big winge on innis groups

The main problem I have been having in innis groups is that 1 pull into shades/azures etc someones needs to log, every group bar 1 this has happened to me.

When i log on i try to find a group, 10 mins later i end up soloing in CM or getting a small pit group as its the only way i seem to gain xp due to the short length of innis groups.

The thing i have yet to understand is why do people go looking and join a group when in 30 mins they know, they have to go out, meet a friend or whatever, fair enough rl comes first but its a royal pain in the ass for those who have come on for the night for a bit of fun and end up with this.

My point is to those who fall into this category, when you do get innis groups disband before you leave if you know you will shortly be leaving. My experience of CM pit 3x-40 was none stop pulling all would go afk at same time happily for a quick break and at the end of the night there would have been a few dings good drops. since my 40 ding i have virtually solo'd to 42 where i am now as innis groups never seem to be what you may assume.

 

[angrysquirrel]

sleet you have my sympathy (and its your turn to make tea btw)

if you wanna xp seriously, then get a pbaoe group to the ez, dont piss around in cm. (like ive been saying for weeks you dumb ass firbie)

i play a ranger and ive tried a ns and they come under two categories i think

ranger------useless to a group

nightshade------uselesssss to a group


(note deliberate spelling mistake to allow a distinction between the two)

like i said, ive played them both and ive played others and i know they serve no group purpose (give rangers protect goa you bastards!!)

 

[Sleet]

well squirrel what im saying is a good pbaoe group does happen, but when a group is well set up to handle the adds and one decides in 10 mins they have to log thats it done for really, 1 goes, another follows, then another, then the group has come to an end


my complaint is why do people join a group knowing soon enough they have to log as that spells doom and gloom for the rest of the happy campers?

EZ a replacement cant just follow you on, its going to get to the stage where before grouping you need everyone to print off and return a contractual agreement saying a 2 hour bash is ok.

got a good group set-up with toki toker a while back lasted 2 hours made great xp despite dieing twice as the total gained was much more than what was lost, what i dont get is why is this such a rare thing for a tank




and btw
maxed parry +9 and mastery of parry 2 ra makes up for no shield on a spearo, got asked why i dont spec s&s today

 

[spankya]

Originally posted by angrysquirrel

i play a ranger and ive tried a ns and they come under two categories i think

ranger------useless to a group

nightshade------uselesssss to a group

U have no idea! I bet any nightshade the same lvl as u can easily out tank you! NS's have higher evade than rangers and so get hit less, have higher weapon specs and so can do more damage and hold aggro better and with a wardens bubble can sometimes not get hurt at all.

I have a lvl41 ranger and a lvl41NS so know what I'm talking about. All good groups from lvl40+ need people to hold aggro for pbaoers to do there job and if a warden is in the group then both rangers and NS's shouldnt have a problem holding aggro.

And I too need my NS lvld so group me more plz

 

[Lessurl]

Spankya jumped in before me but i'm gonna make my point anyway as it's from the mages perspective. When i was at fins and aoeing away and suddenly one would start chargin at me it was almost ALWAYS a hero/champ/warden (never had a bm in a fins grp strangely) chasin after it. Rarely did the shade or ranger in the grp lose their mob. From my point of view holding aggro is the key and i am very happy to have a rogue in the group. Also on the rare occasions when it was a shade (normally when i hit aoe too early ) they were the only ones who could be almost guaranteed to take it off me b4 i or the mob died. If it was a tank i had to resort to qc stun (v-mana intensive) and backin off. Of course if we had 2 wardens runnin 6-sec bub then i didn't need to worry as i could tank it easy with a few heals.

A very fair grp template as it gives every class a chance AND keeps the grp strong enough to make good xp is 2 tanks (hero/champ/bm), 1 Rogue (Shade/ranger), 1 Druid, 1 Warden, 1 Bard, 1 pb mage and 1 other mage.

Of course variations can occur. As depending on what u were killing a high lvl rogue could take the place of one of the tanks or a mentalist could take the bard slot or a second warden the druid slot or 2 aoe mages instead or pb and one other (this combo works best with a ment instead of bard as they can nuke too) or a high warden replacing one of the tanks. And quite possibly a few other variations i haven't thought of. If we stick to this plan then everyone at least gets a shot at bein in a grp and will be a less frustrating levelling experience for many. Of course some people would still have it easy due to the low number of bards and wardens about but come on guys, give the poor rogues a shot. The ARE useful in grps and they are VERY useful in rvr.

[/edit] p.s Elric, the yellow con nightspawn at innis will give a lvl 41 his cap xp if u grp with him and kill them. I was doing this with whandall the other night. Even kept cap when we joined a lvl 43 bm from my guild and moved on to the orange con nightspawn further down and the pooks and bears. Those mite things (can't remember name is late and tired) give no xp but it's fun to aoe them

 

[Anu]

Altho u may not know it even as a Druid with higher spec RG i've found it hard to get grps in innis.. yea i simpathise (SP?) with NS/rangers.. altho i know a NS can deal more dmg than a ranger..

I've no problem with NS is any grp i'm in as it has been said they can be heavy dmg dealers and with evade etc they can be little boogey babies

I know a NS called Noche who always makes his own grps and is usually good grps.(once spent about 9hrs solid in a grp from ez to DF to get Noche his lvl)

I'll always try get a NS into a grp i'm in and try to help Guildies NS to lvl by being there Buff/heal bot for the night(s) [Yes Ooh/Azimov i will help u this weekend if u want ]

Seems ppl think rogues are a liability and it's quite the opposite.


NS ---> <------ Me

 

[Ensceptifica]

I think a lot of problems could be solved if people realised that you don't always need full groups, and that if you do a pbaoe group and have a warden, nightshades and rangers are sometimes even better aggro-keepers than heroes and champs.

From lvl 40+, there was a couple of things I did to reduce waiting time:

1. Make my own groups.
2. Find 1 or 2 peeps to do a 2/3 person group with and hunt Far Darrigs or Dullahans. I don't always have 7 friends online to help me, but 2 or 3 is very likely.
3. Ask guild. Some people expect a little too much from guilds in this aspect though; if you say "lvl 40 <class> lfg" 7 peeps don't often jump in to help you regardless of how nice your guild is. It usually works better to announce on your guildforum in advance: "Monday 18.00 CET Lvl 40+ xp group in Innis" for example. You're still not guaranteed a fg then, but it will still make a big difference. Plus organising little things like that for your guild makes everybody more enthousiastic about being in that guild, which is nice too ( ;

 

[angrysquirrel]

give rangers and shades protect skill plz mr goa !

 

[Avi N'dor]

Originally posted by angrysquirrel
give rangers and shades protect skill plz mr goa !

GOA doesn't develop this game, Mythic does. GOA just.. well translates and installs the patches and collects our cash

I wouldn't mind having protect skill! It would be a whole new twist in our uber-tanking skills, hehe.

 

[tarkadall]

A few observations during my time as a shade:

1: DOT poison (with relatively high envenom) = mega agro, I know a lot of the time I don't bring an awful lot to a group but if ever my job is to hold agro I know I can do that.

2: We can tank, but it can be unpredictable. Sometimes we'll evade literally for the entire fight and people will go "omfg you own" but then sometimes we'll get hit each time and hps go down VERY fast when that happens. Keeps things interesting though.

3: There is stuff you can solo 41-44 although most of it has to be pulled via magic due to agros everywhere, which is THE reason I think rangers are better at soloing than shades. I mean how often does a ranger not get to open combat with their best attack? Deamhan hounds at Siopa are good and if there are too many tough orange cons you can always train them to the guards to get some more to spawn.

4: I am currently 44, v.hard to xp fast although when DF is open there is a great spot with those flying demon thingies which give really nice solo xp (mid-high yellow con usually). But the best thing about this spot is that it is literally around the corner from the drinkers, so you always have a chance of getting into a group there. I have had way more success getting groups in DF than Innis for some reason.

5: There are real some nice solo spots in the other realms' frontiers. Anyone ever hunted 'worms' in alb or frost orms in mid? (and I thought faerae drakes went down fast..) Yeah sure you might get xp killed, but maybe you could try it after a ding or something. Just cos no one else does it, doesn't mean it sucks. I have found most people in this game are afraid to try anything themselves, they would rather download a 1-50 hunting guide and follow that religiously. Also shades have more chance of survival xping in the frontiers since you only have to be unstealthed when you are fighting.

 

[old.Kennsai]

ive been in countless grps in innis doing azures/banshees etc. and ive done fine with NS's/rangers in grp. One grp we had a ranger and a NS and we did extremely well. I know how frustrating it can be to never get a grp so i try to get NS's in grp where i can. I found the best way for a NS to get a grp is to Start your own. People will join a grp with a NS but they wont join a NS to a grp (weird really isnt it)