Infil vs SB

[Light]

i would have thought that anyone that regularly fights sb's in even matches (numbers/RR) thinks they need some wub :wub:

i do, although this is from a mins perspective (compared to fighting ns mainly)

not a statement of fact - no logs but opinion from many hours playtime, definately felt more 'balanced' when they had relics

 

[liloe]

liloe u are =)) !

thx Calo =))

 

[Aussie]

where are those 500dmg hitting screens from infils with mainhand?

 

[Glottis]

where are those 500dmg hitting screens from infils with mainhand?

They get deleted from their RAM when they wake up I guess.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Vindicator]

RR5 Infil: 50+15 Slash, 50+15 CS, 1540 WS, 10% Melee Speed 4.1 Spd Main, 2.6 Spd Off, 707 AF, 20% Relic Bonus +10% Slash Bonus vs Mid Leather, Aug STR 2, MoP 2

Anytimes:-
(Amethyst): 230 - 300, (Diamond): 310 - 340, | (Garrote): 220 - 280, (Achilles) 250 - 300.

PA Chain:-
(Perf): 820 - 876 (1000+ with small crit), (Creeping): 320 - 360, (Stunning): 320 - 380.

Evade Chain:-
(Hamstring): 250 - 300, (Leaper): 280 - 340, (Rib): 300 - 360, (Ripper): 350 - 400


RR7 SB: 50+17 Left Axe, 34+17 Sword, 34+17 CS, 1493 WS, 10% Speed, 10% Damage, 9% Style, 4.1 Spd Main, 4.1 Spd Off, 583 AF, Aug STR 3, Aug CON 2, Toughness 2, MoP 3,

Anytimes:-
(DoubleFrost) 130 - 180

PA:-
(Perf) 4.1 Spd 1hand: 430, 5.7 Spd 2hand: 599 - 632

Evade Chain:-
(Comeback): 130 - 150, (Frosty): 150 - 180

Im not trying to discount your test but some things were just not mentioned in it.

The Infil has a 20% relic boost that the sb doesnt, you state this yes but ppl seem to ignore this. The infil has 10% melee resist's just stripped from his target straight away using slash weapons on the stealthers armor. It isnt stated if its battler + malice combo being used but if its heat lgw then why put 10% slash bonus in there and not the heat % bonus instead ?. If it is battler and malice then there is not only an abs debuff fucking up your figures but also a stat debuff, con debuff being a big problem, there as well.

That infil has 65 effective cs, meaning quite a high cap. Also no chance of suffering from the 51 effective weapon problem. For every +1 to your weapon spec you add to your cap on all the particular style's in the line.

What's the sb using ? swords or heat lgn's ? they are only base spec'd 34 in cs. I wouldnt expect them to hit near that kind of damage also when you factor in that the infil who is cs spec'd has 20% melee , abs debuff, stat debuff and a either a slash or heat resist% bonus on the target I'm really not so shocked. Very precise for the 2h pa test, bit weird no? did the test twice or something?

How many times did you try out the styles on a said target and this was without a str/con debuff applied or not? The variance on some of those styles is really strange also, you go from 230-300 on amy slash yet from 310-340 on diamond hum. Yet garrote which has an established higher grwth rate has a tighter variance yet lower damage output, while achilles and diamond dmg shows diamond coming out well on top. yet they both have the same in gap of grwth rate of .15 between each style in direct comparasion. Logs for those test's would be great and say 500 times for each style would probably be an accurate test.

I've seen the post's from this wyrd chap. I've read various post's on this forum about ppl changing spec and how the damage was either the same or a lil higher while offering them more styles to use. How can all these people really be so sure ? there judging this by just looking at there info bar's every few kills and remembering what dmg they do mainhand / offhand in there heads while remembering the same data from before ? hehe. Funny really it is, now I would expect a rr7+ sb etc to have an idea what sort of damage they normally do but there are just so many variables I wouldnt just try to remember my dmg in my head or from time played. I would sit down and test this 'theory' for my self. I mean there has always been complaints of how infils hit so much harder than infils or for just about what sb's did hit for < with relics> and the whole time all those infils are spec'd 50 in there base weapon spec. It's always either 50 Thrust or Slash. Does nobody find this a bit odd that they have always seemed to do good - great damage before and now presently its insane with relics when they have 50 base weapon. Its sort of an Occam's Razor here ........... Whatever seems the most logical / straight forward answer generally is.

I wouldnt go on to say that sb's dont need some boosting or need adjusting. It's pretty apparent that they do but before I went on about how under powered and low / gimped there damage was in XYZ aspect was, I would get my 'own' facts straight and not some vn boards guys chap who everybody seems to like to lick his knob. Ye he's a smart guy who tested stuff out for him self and was very kind to share it to all, well you know what, take that information and test it your self before you just accept it blindly. You can only be sure your self when you've done just that, tested it your self.

 

[Dracus]

Frankly don't give a monkeys what you think. And if you want to read Linburghs (infil TL - who inidentally has campaigned more for SBs than any SB TL has) report you'll find that there. Why should the infil have the same style at 50 that the NS gets at 25?

Well why should SBs get it as a 2nd in a chain? we cant all be the same ya know. And its not like you loose a lot speccing 50 is it? or do you just wanna get ur infil uber tweaked in light of wyrds latest tests? your funneh tbh.

/Dracus

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Well why should SBs get it as a 2nd in a chain? we cant all be the same ya know. And its not like you loose a lot speccing 50 is it? or do you just wanna get ur infil uber tweaked in light of wyrds latest tests? your funneh tbh.

/Dracus

And there was a point in there somewhere?

 

[Zeratuhl]

And there was a point in there somewhere?

and u still havnt the guts to spit ur chars out

 

[Aussie]

where are those fucking logs & pictures of 500dmg mainhand swinging infils

 

[Robin the Brave]

Im not trying to discount your test but some things were just not mentioned in it.

The Infil has a 20% relic boost that the sb doesnt, you state this yes but ppl seem to ignore this. The infil has 10% melee resist's just stripped from his target straight away using slash weapons on the stealthers armor. It isnt stated if its battler + malice combo being used but if its heat lgw then why put 10% slash bonus in there and not the heat % bonus instead ?. If it is battler and malice then there is not only an abs debuff fucking up your figures but also a stat debuff, con debuff being a big problem, there as well.

That infil has 65 effective cs, meaning quite a high cap. Also no chance of suffering from the 51 effective weapon problem. For every +1 to your weapon spec you add to your cap on all the particular style's in the line.

What's the sb using ? swords or heat lgn's ? they are only base spec'd 34 in cs. I wouldnt expect them to hit near that kind of damage also when you factor in that the infil who is cs spec'd has 20% melee , abs debuff, stat debuff and a either a slash or heat resist% bonus on the target I'm really not so shocked. Very precise for the 2h pa test, bit weird no? did the test twice or something?

How many times did you try out the styles on a said target and this was without a str/con debuff applied or not? The variance on some of those styles is really strange also, you go from 230-300 on amy slash yet from 310-340 on diamond hum. Yet garrote which has an established higher grwth rate has a tighter variance yet lower damage output, while achilles and diamond dmg shows diamond coming out well on top. yet they both have the same in gap of grwth rate of .15 between each style in direct comparasion. Logs for those test's would be great and say 500 times for each style would probably be an accurate test.

While testing no debuffs were used, crits were not counted

I stated 4.1 spd mainhand, 2.6spd offhand.. (Battler / Crafted Jambiya)

SB was using Malice/Battler combo.

I just showed my Highest and Slowest hits with said style, for diamond slash most hits were 310 - 325, however i hit 340 once, was just showing capable damage

Strange though as without relics and pre NF i never seemed to hit under 300 for any style, but im sure with more testing my average would raise ;p, this test was not completely accurate as it was far too short, however this was just to give a rough example of an average fight.
As for PA pre NF without relics i almost always hit my PA cap of 876 or at the worst 800+.

But as everyone has said and knows, with the factors of Spec AF and to a lesser extent Debuffs SBs are at a great disadvantage, also due to the way LA works most SBs are forced into spec'ing 50 LA or atleast 44~, which would leave their CS skill too low as cause decent amounts of damage with their PA chain, If i PA an SB for 1000+ (aswell as CD + SS, 2x Backslash if they dont purge instantly) the fight is as good as mine without some l33t mofo strafing, while being pa'ed for 400~ its still very possible to win the fight, as thrust specc'ed its almost certain to win :/

 

[Robin the Brave]

where are those fucking logs & pictures of 500dmg mainhand swinging infils

Im sure they mean with crits, wittor posted a SS of 350+150 crit, doubt even with 50+21 weapon skill the cap is anywhere near 500.

 

[Calo]

Hahah, I stopped reading here, cause Smilewhatever just wtfpwned your ass.
Just like my pet wtfpwned most SB duo's out there.
Regards, Glottis

next whine thread of glottis:

cabby pets stun waay to low! i want more stuns and more damage! and i want passive lifetap to cause 1year ago, a savage could insta kill me so i should be overpowered now so its balanced! its just.. euh ... logical? mm no, euh, its just me !

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Im sure they mean with crits, wittor posted a SS of 350+150 crit, doubt even with 50+21 weapon skill the cap is anywhere near 500.

And you remeber how low the resists were on that shot right?

 

[Vodkafairy]

i've had Vodkafairy hitting me for 500 mainhand (not PA)

i used battler charge and got a perfect crit on sib separation, its not really surprising you get a massive hit then, it doesnt happen all the time tho..

smilewhenyousaythat =

[19:40] <TiwazBot> Name: Asp <UK Mercs> Race: Saracen Class: Infiltrator Level: 50 RP: 286,011 (RR4L3) Last Week: 25,254 Realm: Albion

 

[Trylle^nzi]

no proof, therefor this thread sux

Not a thread without the famous retard-aussie-reply.

uke:

 

[Appollo]

Not a thread without the famous retard-aussie-reply.

uke:

But its true, so..........

 

[Xajorkith]

still no proof, therefor this thread sux

You and ya bum chum, ISmileWhileITakeItUpTheAss have not disproved Ingrid's comments either, so instead of being the complete muther fecking retard you are, why not provide your own figures showing different? Or at least provide some argument against him. That way Ingrid gets pwned, Mid SB's get pwned, you look cool and look like you actually have a f3cking clue.

The only thing I've ever seen you prove in almost three years of posting is that you are number one on Excal for being the utter biggest pr1ck on this board. It's people like you and you bum chum why so much of this board is full of utter bollux, just full of flames and why noone posts anything other than “Gratz IdontHave a life R14” threads.

Why do you command the English language like a base ball bat, is it because you're not intelligent enough to use it constructively? Do you play DAoC from a young offenders institution?

I really wouldn't bother replying either, you're so unoriginal and we've all heard it all before, we should call you Aussie Ariston, cos your sh1te goes on and on and on and
on and on....

Ingrid asked for a debate not a fecking flame, give him that or stfu.

 

[Appollo]

You and ya bum chum, ISmileWhileITakeItUpTheAss have not disproved Ingrid's comments either, so instead of being the complete muther fecking retard you are, why not provide your own figures showing different? Or at least provide some argument against him. That way Ingrid gets pwned, Mid SB's get pwned, you look cool and look like you actually have a f3cking clue.

The only thing I've ever seen you prove in almost three years of posting is that you are number one on Excal for being the utter biggest pr1ck on this board. It's people like you and you bum chum why so much of this board is full of utter bollux, just full of flames and why noone posts anything other than “Gratz IdontHave a life R14” threads.

Why do you command the English language like a base ball bat, is it because you're not intelligent enough to use it constructively? Do you play DAoC from a young offenders institution?

I really wouldn't bother replying either, you're so unoriginal and we've all heard it all before, we should call you Aussie Ariston, cos your sh1te goes on and on and on and
on and on....

Ingrid asked for a debate not a fecking flame, give him that or stfu.

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to...............

 

[Tsukiko]

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to...............

Maybe, but Xajor's right, he's just stating the obvious what most of the daoc FH peeps already know

 

[Appollo]

I think you find in England we call it a wind up, Aussie seems to have refined the art of it. Your mans statements up there prove it.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

You and ya bum chum, ISmileWhileITakeItUpTheAss have not disproved Ingrid's comments either, so instead of being the complete muther fecking retard you are, why not provide your own figures showing different? Or at least provide some argument against him. That way Ingrid gets pwned, Mid SB's get pwned, you look cool and look like you actually have a f3cking clue.

The only thing I've ever seen you prove in almost three years of posting is that you are number one on Excal for being the utter biggest pr1ck on this board. It's people like you and you bum chum why so much of this board is full of utter bollux, just full of flames and why noone posts anything other than “Gratz IdontHave a life R14” threads.

Why do you command the English language like a base ball bat, is it because you're not intelligent enough to use it constructively? Do you play DAoC from a young offenders institution?

I really wouldn't bother replying either, you're so unoriginal and we've all heard it all before, we should call you Aussie Ariston, cos your sh1te goes on and on and on and
on and on....

Ingrid asked for a debate not a fecking flame, give him that or stfu.

Medication required here please nurse.

 

[Zeratuhl]

smilewhenyousaythat =

[19:40] <TiwazBot> Name: Asp <UK Mercs> Race: Saracen Class: Infiltrator Level: 50 RP: 286,011 (RR4L3) Last Week: 25,254 Realm: Albion

 

[Calo]

nah aussi & smile are amusing.

What would this forum be if its only with facts, grats threads and discussions and flames and ppl trying to kill eachother!

In the end this is still a gaming forum, nothing more, nothing to prove here.

 

[Vindicator]

While testing no debuffs were used, crits were not counted

I stated 4.1 spd mainhand, 2.6spd offhand.. (Battler / Crafted Jambiya)

SB was using Malice/Battler combo.

I just showed my Highest and Slowest hits with said style, for diamond slash most hits were 310 - 325, however i hit 340 once, was just showing capable damage

Strange though as without relics and pre NF i never seemed to hit under 300 for any style, but im sure with more testing my average would raise ;p, this test was not completely accurate as it was far too short, however this was just to give a rough example of an average fight.
As for PA pre NF without relics i almost always hit my PA cap of 876 or at the worst 800+.

But as everyone has said and knows, with the factors of Spec AF and to a lesser extent Debuffs SBs are at a great disadvantage, also due to the way LA works most SBs are forced into spec'ing 50 LA or atleast 44~, which would leave their CS skill too low as cause decent amounts of damage with their PA chain, If i PA an SB for 1000+ (aswell as CD + SS, 2x Backslash if they dont purge instantly) the fight is as good as mine without some l33t mofo strafing, while being pa'ed for 400~ its still very possible to win the fight, as thrust specc'ed its almost certain to win :/

Alright fair enough but some of the info I wasnt to know. For a really accurate test it would require each style to be done 500 times on the same target to get a real comparasion going. Sounds like alot of work thou :<

I think most people are in agreement that SB's need some love, has anybody thought of possible changes that they could get that would help the class without making them overpowered again?

My own suggestions would be as follow's:

In Envenom line add new debuff for all class's
-Dex/ Con debuff poison.

Allows all assasins to debuff each other's health and ws more fairly than before while not shifting the balance of power too much. Would mean infils shouldnt hit as hard or evade a little less at least! < if slash spec etc>

Let SB'S spec into Hammer but severly alter the hammer style line before hand.

-Change Revenge's opening to "You evade" instead of Block for SB's only. Giving them a 2nd in chain 7s stun if needed if they choose Crit spec over ShadowZerk spec.

-Change Lambast opening to "You Evade" instead of you parry for SB's only. Giving them reason to spec higher in Hammer if they do go with ShadowZerk spec. The lvl 50 movie chains off this.

Also a free respec of battler and malice would have to be given, auto lvl 10 heh ye right. The combat moves in Hammer spec have some great growth rates and moves such as Provoke and Conquer chain. The fact that they would have access to a weapon type that means all assasins + ranger is vunerable to them is totally negated by the fact that heat lgw's are about and everybody has that advantage now anyway. Also it would be nice for scouts to actually have a resistant armor type against the enemy which prob kills them the most heh, maybe not without relics atm thou :x!

Possibly some people have better idea's or have tweaks to suggestions I put. Now all you have to do is get Mythic to listen, read and change something about a class instead of releasing fluff patch 1.7more-years-till-anything-changes0. :>

 

[ztyx]

here we go again.
what is there to discuss that hasnt been "discussed" over and over and over again for a year?

same crap, diff day.

Maybe that it shows even more now with the relics in your hands

 

[Aussie]

still no proof therefor this thread still sux

 

[Marc]

You and ya bum chum, ISmileWhileITakeItUpTheAss

rofl

 

[Zeratuhl]

Alright fair enough but some of the info I wasnt to know. For a really accurate test it would require each style to be done 500 times on the same target to get a real comparasion going. Sounds like alot of work thou :<

I think most people are in agreement that SB's need some love, has anybody thought of possible changes that they could get that would help the class without making them overpowered again?

My own suggestions would be as follow's:

In Envenom line add new debuff for all class's
-Dex/ Con debuff poison.

Allows all assasins to debuff each other's health and ws more fairly than before while not shifting the balance of power too much. Would mean infils shouldnt hit as hard or evade a little less at least! < if slash spec etc>

Let SB'S spec into Hammer but severly alter the hammer style line before hand.

-Change Revenge's opening to "You evade" instead of Block for SB's only. Giving them a 2nd in chain 7s stun if needed if they choose Crit spec over ShadowZerk spec.

-Change Lambast opening to "You Evade" instead of you parry for SB's only. Giving them reason to spec higher in Hammer if they do go with ShadowZerk spec. The lvl 50 movie chains off this.

Also a free respec of battler and malice would have to be given, auto lvl 10 heh ye right. The combat moves in Hammer spec have some great growth rates and moves such as Provoke and Conquer chain. The fact that they would have access to a weapon type that means all assasins + ranger is vunerable to them is totally negated by the fact that heat lgw's are about and everybody has that advantage now anyway. Also it would be nice for scouts to actually have a resistant armor type against the enemy which prob kills them the most heh, maybe not without relics atm thou :x!

Possibly some people have better idea's or have tweaks to suggestions I put. Now all you have to do is get Mythic to listen, read and change something about a class instead of releasing fluff patch 1.7more-years-till-anything-changes0. :>

uhm, let me just point out a few things that kinda struck me when u said this.
why implement a dex/con poison?

that would mean for SBs to have to use 2 debuff poisons to debuff for the same amount of debuffing that infils and NS do with 1 poison. in that way, they lose dot/snare poison when dual wielding thus would not make any diffrence. also to be able to use 2 poisons that debuffs str/con AND "dex/con" mythic would never allow both amounts of con debuffing from the poisons to stack thus making it very ineffective and useless. correct me if im wrong plz


also, to give SBs HAMMER specc?!?! uhm. in all the legends and stories where assasins have been a part of the story ive never ever ever heard about an assasin with hammer also. the name Shadowblade indicates that its someone wielding sharp objects, not crushing ones. sry pal, that aint gonna happen

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

uhm, let me just point out a few things that kinda struck me when u said this.
why implement a dex/con poison?

that would mean for SBs to have to use 2 debuff poisons to debuff for the same amount of debuffing that infils and NS do with 1 poison. in that way, they lose dot/snare poison when dual wielding thus would not make any diffrence. also to be able to use 2 poisons that debuffs str/con AND "dex/con" mythic would never allow both amounts of con debuffing from the poisons to stack thus making it very ineffective and useless. correct me if im wrong plz


also, to give SBs HAMMER specc?!?! uhm. in all the legends and stories where assasins have been a part of the story ive never ever ever heard about an assasin with hammer also. the name Shadowblade indicates that its someone wielding sharp objects, not crushing ones. sry pal, that aint gonna happen

And a dex debuff poison would affect caster speed and tank shield/parry effectiveness - and theres no way mythic is going to let shodwblades do that.

lol - hammer spec. 1 it doesn't fit with the design of an assassin, and 2 they only want it to gain a vuln on both ns and infil armour at the same time (something neither of the other assassins can do) - plus of course its str based and haven't they all been whining like biatches abut str based weapons?

SBs are fine - just attracts too many whiners. go roll SMs or hunters like the rest of mids fotms did.

 

[Whisperess]

They could try to make our über-benefit of 2h weapons somewhat useful for a stealther, for starters.