Infil vs SB

[Robin the Brave]

Oki ppl.. just did some tests.. rr 8 scout, rr 5 infils slash specced, and cs specced no style or melee damage.. and a rr 9 infil with + to melee and style damage.. will post screenies tomorrow!

RR5 Infil: 50+15 Slash, 50+15 CS, 1540 WS, 10% Melee Speed 4.1 Spd Main, 2.6 Spd Off, 707 AF, 20% Relic Bonus +10% Slash Bonus vs Mid Leather, Aug STR 2, MoP 2

Anytimes:-
(Amethyst): 230 - 300, (Diamond): 310 - 340, | (Garrote): 220 - 280, (Achilles) 250 - 300.

PA Chain:-
(Perf): 820 - 876 (1000+ with small crit), (Creeping): 320 - 360, (Stunning): 320 - 380.

Evade Chain:-
(Hamstring): 250 - 300, (Leaper): 280 - 340, (Rib): 300 - 360, (Ripper): 350 - 400


RR7 SB: 50+17 Left Axe, 34+17 Sword, 34+17 CS, 1493 WS, 10% Speed, 10% Damage, 9% Style, 4.1 Spd Main, 4.1 Spd Off, 583 AF, Aug STR 3, Aug CON 2, Toughness 2, MoP 3,

Anytimes:-
(DoubleFrost) 130 - 180

PA:-
(Perf) 4.1 Spd 1hand: 430, 5.7 Spd 2hand: 599 - 632

Evade Chain:-
(Comeback): 130 - 150, (Frosty): 150 - 180

 

[Indrid]

RR5 Infil: 50+15 Slash, 50+15 CS, 1540 WS, 10% Melee Speed 4.1 Spd Main, 2.6 Spd Off, 707 AF, 20% Relic Bonus +10% Slash Bonus vs Mid Leather, Aug STR 2, MoP 2

Anytimes:-
(Amethyst): 230 - 300, (Diamond): 310 - 340, | (Garrote): 220 - 280, (Achilles) 250 - 300.

PA Chain:-
(Perf): 820 - 876 (1000+ with small crit), (Creeping): 320 - 360, (Stunning): 320 - 380.

Evade Chain:-
(Hamstring): 250 - 300, (Leaper): 280 - 340, (Rib): 300 - 360, (Ripper): 350 - 400


RR7 SB: 50+17 Left Axe, 34+17 Sword, 34+17 CS, 1493 WS, 10% Speed, 10% Damage, 9% Style, 4.1 Spd Main, 4.1 Spd Off, 583 AF, Aug STR 3, Aug CON 2, Toughness 2, MoP 3,

Anytimes:-
(DoubleFrost) 130 - 180

PA:-
(Perf) 4.1 Spd 1hand: 430, 5.7 Spd 2hand: 599 - 632

Evade Chain:-
(Comeback): 130 - 150, (Frosty): 150 - 180

correct but i dont have +17 to cs aswell.. and i can add that a rr 9 infil with +10 melee and 9style using battler malice.. did random damage for 340-500, specced 50slash 39cs 30 dw +19 to all. and PA for 1200 main hand.. did unstyled damage from 180-250.. will shos some screenies or stats tomororw

 

[Ketinna]

Erm? I asked simply for some evidence. Are you sure you meant to reply to me?

isnt it a proof?

if a druid got 1.3x speccs and a cleric got 1.0x wouldnt that be evidence enough?

 

[Ketinna]

another noob question, why can mids have 4 seers in grp and still have the best dmg output then the other realms optimal setups?

because they cant get 10+ pets nuking the whole support

 

[Vodkafairy]

No, SB's have something like 4% more hits than infils which equates to ~55 hits or so (its only base hits remember). Wouldnt exactly call that shitloads since Infs will reduce that advantage on their first hit on an SB.

amazing how you managed to miss the sarcasm in his post

 

[tookha]

amazing how you managed to miss the sarcasm in his post

:wub:

 

[Fana]

amazing how you managed to miss the sarcasm in his post

Hard to spot sarcasm from honest belief on FH since people seem to have some rather strange ideas most of the time. But yes i did suspect he wasnt serious, since Evull had been posting from the sb's side before - just wanted to point out the reality before anyone gets something like "OmG sB hav3 43763 h1ts meights!11" in their heads, etc.

 

[[GoL]Nervion]

id say that is one gimped merc

id say it also could be a infil

 

[Leel]

For Smiley:
Wyrrd's tests are about weapon spec above 50 not affecting evade/block/parry.
This has NOTHING to do with 2.5 spec points or damage. It simply means that sb's don't have to spec more than 35 sword if they are rr6+ and don't use sword styles. And this is in no way a benefit to sb's over infils. Infils also get this benefit. So why you bring this up as a point is really beyond me. Don't think you understood anything.

And about infils having 2.5 spec points, it comes from the time when they decided that assassins were a bit gimped, so hey, let's add something to them, but make them more UNIQUE. Yeah, give infils 2.5 spec points, sb's 5% more hp, and give ns a single insta dd and a single castable dd. Of course mythic didn't realize the implications of this, and they have never done anything to correct it either. 2.5 spec points is a huge advantage.

 

[Arnor]

For Smiley:
Wyrrd's tests are about weapon spec above 50 not affecting evade/block/parry.
This has NOTHING to do with 2.5 spec points or damage. It simply means that sb's don't have to spec more than 35 sword if they are rr6+ and don't use sword styles. And this is in no way a benefit to sb's over infils. Infils also get this benefit. So why you bring this up as a point is really beyond me. Don't think you understood anything.

And about infils having 2.5 spec points, it comes from the time when they decided that assassins were a bit gimped, so hey, let's add something to them, but make them more UNIQUE. Yeah, give infils 2.5 spec points, sb's 5% more hp, and give ns a single insta dd and a single castable dd. Of course mythic didn't realize the implications of this, and they have never done anything to correct it either. 2.5 spec points is a huge advantage.

pah, logic and correct information will get you nowwhere here missus!

 

[rvn]

id say it also could be a infil

lets compare fishing boats with aircraftcarriers

 

[Appollo]

Im not overpowered, theres no CRIT!

http://www.pollyworld.co.uk/Stuff/Watchh.JPG

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

doublepost

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Never is any proof - they just like whining.

Read the latest material on how to spec. Spec like an assassin using your assassin unique lines, play like an assassin using your assassin unique lines and stop trying to be a minizerk, stealthtank or anything else.

I get hit as hard as i hit by some SBs - some though hit like wet noodles because they're specc'd wrong.

So stop whining, spec right and play like an assassin.

you mean like i do?

im currantly specced: 32 sword/la, 50 cs, 31 stealth and 28 venom at rr9l2.

i consider myself doing rather good dmg compared to other specs ive tried.

this dmg on infs and shades i get is around 170 - 190. good compared to perfzerk ect.

i use garrote/ah and full hamstering chain and ofc pa + cd + ss and backstabb 2 ect.

i have a question to you: how come infs, shades and rangers hits me for 250+ with anytimes wich is almost and over 50% more dmg then i do to them, while they are enverated and im not?

pre OF, i used to get hit for 400+ with anytimes about once every 4 months, now it happens on daily basis.

and you got relics right? if you get hit by a SB for as much as you hit i got 4 words for you: RESPEC For F*ck Sake because the other infs outdmg you.

an sb and an inf has never been on the same level, before LA nerf SB was way out of line and usually beat infs, after LA nerf SB dosnt have a singel advantage over the infs.

infs got:
DW mecanics for offhand, beeing able to hit for 150+ with offhand.
2.5 spec points.
thrust weapons and slash weapons to spec in, meaning they can chose to spec for high dmg towards SBs and netural against NSes (while SB can only spec for neutral against both others not to mention the only ones who are vuln vs slash in the whole bloody game that isnt a mid is hib heavy tanks, healers and wardens.. gl killing any of those while they are grouped).

sb's got:
hp advantage: what hp advantage? 75 - 150 hp? thats like half a hit now days.
LA swings every time.. yeah, might be good getting on 2nd venom in first hit, but so what? with SC its not like every other inf/shade get a high swing speed and when they swing, they land the offhand hit most of the time. As soon as yesterday i fought a NS. i hit for about 150 - 180, the luri bladeshade hit me for 250 - 400 with anytimes, i landed my offhand 3 times, the shade swung and landed his offhand twice and did almost 50% more dmg then i did.
high str classes (norse): what does that matter when a low str class like lurikeen does 2 almost 3 times your dmg?

so to sum it up: inf and SB is no where near equal and when infs are having str relics its just f*cking silly.

 

[Dracus]

If you ask me..the problem isnt with infils, its with SBs...ive seen SSs of NS doin almost the same dmg as infils...and attackin noticebly faster. My own NS, gimped'ish gear hits for 150-230 main hand and 80-120 off and thats at cap spd on both scouts and infils..a tad higher on SB/hunter(might have changed a little after albs took relics, not sure).

I think the reason why albs seem to be hittin harder consistently is because most spec 50 base weap(infils only ofc). 1 thing that does seem to speak against what I'm saying is that slash infils with battler malice still seem to outdmg me(pre-NF) even tho i have 36% slash resist and they have max 11% heat resist...cant wrap my head around that

/Dracus

 

[arizr]

nerf infil´s today.

 

[wittor]

nerf infil´s today.

they already nerfed DF xD

 

[Jimmi]

Infs overpowered? Not really.

Leads to :

 

[wittor]

Infs overpowered? nope !

 

[Jimmi]

http://onfinite.com/libraries/219290/ab1.jpg

 

[UriZeN]

If you ask me..the problem isnt with infils, its with SBs...ive seen SSs of NS doin almost the same dmg as infils...and attackin noticebly faster. My own NS, gimped'ish gear hits for 150-230 main hand and 80-120 off and thats at cap spd on both scouts and infils..a tad higher on SB/hunter(might have changed a little after albs took relics, not sure).

I think the reason why albs seem to be hittin harder consistently is because most spec 50 base weap(infils only ofc). 1 thing that does seem to speak against what I'm saying is that slash infils with battler malice still seem to outdmg me(pre-NF) even tho i have 36% slash resist and they have max 11% heat resist...cant wrap my head around that

/Dracus

i have tried every spec on sb and have experienced infi and ns gameplay aswell the problem is not only in dw mechanics it is at the af buff which most infis not consider as an advantage and they prefer to whine about haste!! well the dmg difference with and without af charge is almost 50% at least at the current infi dmg output state ive did some tests with rr7 infi with backslash
and the result is this: without af charge up he hit me for 330-410 non crit
and with af charge up he did the same style for 220-270! af is given to albs supposingly to match the lower hp bonus but 200hp<<<<75more af so my conclusion is that sb is not playable in emain without constant af charge up, thing that is very difficult to do(i waste 70charges in a day) while not owning an alchemist! sbs damage is nerfed abit too much but its not that much the problem lies in af charge and the fact that most infis run with haste charge since the engage time is very short in nf!
nses would find themselves in the same position if not for the "u cant touch me" button since the damage sbs do on them or atleast the damage i do to them is high enough!

ps:infis cancel ur af buff due to fairplay :touch:

 

[Veg]

isnt it a proof?

if a druid got 1.3x speccs and a cleric got 1.0x wouldnt that be evidence enough?

Are you purposely being retarded ? :/

I wanted evidence of infils constantly doing 350+ Mainhand & 160+ Offhand, ie, pictures of fights. Not just one round of a fight, but the entire fight with every attack made (by both players).
Saying that infils get 2.5x spec points isn't evidence of this.

 

[Cracked]

Infs overpowered? Not really.

Leads to :

OMG! Celeb pics!

Nice picture of the TDD gang out ganking hehe. From left to right:

Cale Flammen Herra kobbie doing style, Zandor Isen Vakten "the red guy", Cracked Isen Herra (me in my undyed über suit), Homing Isen Herra liddul kobbie hunter #1, Aicon Isen Herra liddul kobbie hunter #2, Attle Flammen Herra big guy to the right.

What are we doing there all on the same place? Are we all soloing? Are we all leaching? No we are all zerging! hehe

Fact is u will never see Cracked solo again until they balanced the classes out.

 

[Veg]

Are people also saying that since infils have always hit 350+ & 160+ that we are now hitting for 420+ & 192+? Since we have spent over a year without str relics, and now we have 3 (+20%).

 

[Cracked]

Are people also saying that since infils have always hit 350+ & 160+ that we are now hitting for 420+ & 192+? Since we have spent over a year without str relics, and now we have 3 (+20%).

Fact is that SB's and Infils was fairly equal when mid had all 3 relics, still Infil's had the upper hand but it was more balanced. Without them the balance is so out of whack it's silly. I doubt i can even beat an unbuffed infil right now, wouldn't suprise me if it was a close call at least.

And yes, im FOTM specced, my damage went up a little but not by much.

 

[Dorin]

Are people also saying that since infils have always hit 350+ & 160+ that we are now hitting for 420+ & 192+? Since we have spent over a year without str relics, and now we have 3 (+20%).

ppl saying infils are op enough without relics and with them they are ridiculous rather i think.

ps.: was somewhat ok when no bbs were used, but now with buffs... sooks.

 

[Veg]

I haven't disagreed with what anyone has said, I just simply want evidence of constant 350(420) & 160(192) damage output throughout fights between a 50 infil and 50 NS/SB's.

 

[Runolas]

After reading wyrd's testing I belive that LA and DW/CD are balanced when you compare infinite swings.

However to "Smilewhenyouhidebehindwhoyoureallyareingame" Wyrd is NOT saying that SB/NS/INF are balanced, he is only compareing the CORE mechanizm of LA vs DW/CD and how weaponspec affect dmg/evade etc. If you did not get that, then you just read the heading and jumped the bandwagond.

There are relatively few higher RR INF's commenting on dmgoutput and you got to ask yourself why?

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

The 3 assassin classes are more balanced than any other classes in the game - and SBs still whine constantly.

New tests and info comes out on how to spec to be effective (and the cynic in me suspects mythic knew this all along which is why they've ignored the whines completely) - and still SBs whine constantly.

One person gets hit hard once and all of a sudden all infils are Op and hit this hard on everyone every time. Which frankly is garbage. Keep on whining guys - its got you completely ignored (and laughed at) for 10 patches now in the US.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

After reading wyrd's testing I belive that LA and DW/CD are balanced when you compare infinite swings.

However to "Smilewhenyouhidebehindwhoyoureallyareingame" Wyrd is NOT saying that SB/NS/INF are balanced, he is only compareing the CORE mechanizm of LA vs DW/CD and how weaponspec affect dmg/evade etc. If you did not get that, then you just read the heading and jumped the bandwagond.

There are relatively few higher RR INF's commenting on dmgoutput and you got to ask yourself why?

However if you read his other posts on the same boards he strongly refutes any assertion of LA being inferior and actually goes on to explain how it is superior (taking an 8 round fight, which now in NF is very common). He also refutes that 2.5 is any issue and states its balanced. He also states that charges should be used to match af.

And when you look at wittors hits above (which are evil!) check out the resists on those hits - all have very low resists or have been debuffed.