Independance Day

[Kryten]

No, not that film.
I know it's a day late, but has anyone ever actually read the Decleration of Independance?

I've only just done it and it strikes me ironic that they are still celebrating this day (the Yanks) when in fact very, very few of the conditions laid out in the decleration have been met - i.e. complete dissolvement of any relationship between the english and american political ways to name one.
Also funny how they take every native american indian to be savages and held as such from then to evermore etc.

Sort of hypocritical really - especially as it's a huge national holiday over there.

Just a shame that my descendants were all "American" at that time

 

[bob269]

Personally I found the Magna Carter a much more riviting read.

 

[DaGaffer]

Just a shame that my descendants were all "American" at that time

Your descendents? Fuck, how old are you?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Read any declaration of independence(dancing has little to do with it ) and you'll find some weird and funny stuff.

Like them calling native americans savages, probably from the UK declaration of..erm...well somewhat documents you can find similar stuff.

 

[TdC]

Your descendents? Fuck, how old are you?

isn't that antecedents?

 

[Kryten]

Ancestors then, for want of a better word - was at work, couldnt think of much else apart from "fix laptop" "fix laptop" etc :|

 

[Tom]

Traitors Day more like.

Still, the American win was the French's loss, until Napolean came along that is and the frogs realised that the British were rulers of the world.

 

[Maljonic]

I don't think Americans actually celebrate the Declaration of Independence document, it's more one of the defining points in their history that they have the public holiday for - lots of countries do that.

 

[Raven]

Hypocrisy? what do you expect from a nation built on genocide

 

[Trem]

American Indians ftw!

Jesus, if ever a race was given a rough deal it was them.

 

[throdgrain]

At work the American owners decided that we should celebrate 4th of July yesterday, with competitions and fancy dress and what have you. They seem oblivious of the fact that this is England, the other combatant in that war

I dealt with it by taking the day off holiday.

 

[dysfunction]

American Indians ftw!

Jesus, if ever a race was given a rough deal it was them.

I think the Aborigines in Australia have probably had an equally hard time with things...

Oh wait that was the English colonizers who exterminated them...

I think there are 200,000 in Oz but in 1770 there were 300,000. I guess they have built up their population again slowly after being reduced to 40,000.


But then again weren't the first settlers in America also english?

 

[Maljonic]

We also invented concentration camps in South Africa, but that hardly ever gets a mention... and it should also be remembered, I think, that the "they" who butchered the Indians in America was "us" who moved there from here.

 

[Thadius]

Hypocrisy? what do you expect from a nation built on genocide

Thats Britain then?

 

[throdgrain]

I think the Aborigines in Australia have probably had an equally hard time with things...

Oh wait that was the English colonizers who exterminated them...

I think there are 200,000 in Oz but in 1770 there were 300,000. I guess they have built up their population again slowly after being reduced to 40,000.


But then again weren't the first settlers in America also english?

Who gives a fuck though? Not me

 

[Maljonic]

To be fair I think it's more of a Human thing than a nationality thing anyway, I don't think there are many places on Earth that don't have some kind of genocide atrocity in their past - and there's a fair few where it's still happening.

 

[dysfunction]

Who gives a fuck though? Not me

no in fact if you the english had done that in Southern Africa perhaps Zim would be better off.

 

[Whipped]

No, not that film.
I know it's a day late, but has anyone ever actually read the Decleration of Independance?(

Just have. To be honest, reading it just makes them seem like whiney little bitches .

Plus the whole bit about the right of the people to rise up if a goverment is appresing them .... hmmm, seems Osama and his band could possibly use the state's own declaration against them

I also still think they should have kept the typo in the Bill of Rights. You know, the one that says that everyone should have the right to Arm Bears

 

[DaGaffer]

"Superior" culture (as in better weapons), meets "inferior" culture; inferior culture gets royally fucked. Not exactly news. The English (and their various offshoots) were no different to any other culture in history in that respect; and not just other Europeans; people rarely know that the Zulus were ruthlessly colonising their southern neighbours before the Dutch and English arrived (actually, after they arrived as well), or just how genocidal the Aztecs were before the Spanish. I'm not going to lose any sleep about how terrible us Anglo-Saxons were.

 

[bob269]

We used to rule the world and now we are a bunch of nancy folk getting shit on all over. We became too nice and people saw our weakness and took advantage.

PC'ness fuckoff, lets take back the world.

 

[Raven]

Thats Britain then?

Oh right didnt know that, which group of people did the British kill off before we came to Britain? i was under the impression that we are a collection of Romans, Vikings, Gauls and Ze Germans that pretty much integrated with the few Celts that were here?

 

[Bullitt]

We may have commited genocide in the past but at least we did it with a stiff upper lip and a spot of tea what what.

Hair on a bobbin!

 

[throdgrain]

We used to rule the world and now we are a bunch of nancy folk getting shit on all over. We became too nice and people saw our weakness and took advantage.

PC'ness fuckoff, lets take back the world.

Rarr!!

 

[Dukat]

I always wonder at people in England - supposedly "English" people - who never seem to stop going on about how bad we were.

Judging from what other cultures were/are like, its a damned good job we did what we did back then - if one of the other cultures took over as much land as we did I think we'd have seen something far worse happen.

Imagine an Islamic nation doing what we did? I reckon we'd have seen genocide on a far worse scale and I really dont think that they would ever give up thier empire as graciously as we did. Imagine what happened to Khartoum in the 1800's or whenever it was that the Mahdists massacred the city, but happening worldwide instead.

I know we did some despicable things, but tbh I dont think it was half as bad as some of the things others have done.

 

[dysfunction]

Yes you may well be right there.

But the point is you can't then waggle your finger at America and say you were naughty for killing all those native Indians...especially since those doing the killing had English heritage...

You can't keep living in the past. You need to look at whats happening now and make judgements on that as every nation has done something awful in their histories I'm sure.

And yes I think England is getting a bit soft these days. A Hard nosed approach is definitely required on many things

 

[throdgrain]

I always wonder at people in England - supposedly "English" people - who never seem to stop going on about how bad we were.

Judging from what other cultures were/are like, its a damned good job we did what we did back then - if one of the other cultures took over as much land as we did I think we'd have seen something far worse happen.

Imagine an Islamic nation doing what we did? I reckon we'd have seen genocide on a far worse scale and I really dont think that they would ever give up thier empire as graciously as we did. Imagine what happened to Khartoum in the 1800's or whenever it was that the Mahdists massacred the city, but happening worldwide instead.

I know we did some despicable things, but tbh I dont think it was half as bad as some of the things others have done.

Look up the Turkish extermination of Armenians around the end of the last century. The rivers were blocked with bodies for days.

Unfortunately out media and government have taken it upon themselves to make us feel sorry for everything, regardless of whether we should or not, backed up by an all-powerfull Hollywood with a need for someone to blame who isnt American.

Unfortunately most of the last generation, and some of the one before, have fallen for it hook line and sinker, so that now it's becoming accepted fact by default.

Thank god for younger people like you mate tbh.

 

[dysfunction]

Throd and pikey sitting in a tree
k
I
S
S
I
N
G

 

[Guest]

Who gives a fuck though? Not me

words of wisdom my friend.

 

[Overdriven]

I just find it sad that they didn't actually play the movie Nothing would of brightened up my evening than seeing the Whitehouse destroyed by a mega laser.

 

[Kryten]

The most sensible thing said so far, Overdriven