Independance Day

Discussion in 'The Front Room' started by Kryten, Jul 5, 2007.

  1. Kryten

    Kryten Old Cow. Moderator

    No, not that film.
    I know it's a day late, but has anyone ever actually read the Decleration of Independance?

    I've only just done it and it strikes me ironic that they are still celebrating this day (the Yanks) when in fact very, very few of the conditions laid out in the decleration have been met - i.e. complete dissolvement of any relationship between the english and american political ways to name one.
    Also funny how they take every native american indian to be savages and held as such from then to evermore etc.

    Sort of hypocritical really - especially as it's a huge national holiday over there.

    Just a shame that my descendants were all "American" at that time :(
     
  2. bob269

    bob269 Fledgling Freddie

    Personally I found the Magna Carter a much more riviting read.
     
  3. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    Your descendents? Fuck, how old are you?
     
  4. old.Tohtori

    old.Tohtori FH is my second home

    Read any declaration of independence(dancing has little to do with it ;) ) and you'll find some weird and funny stuff.

    Like them calling native americans savages, probably from the UK declaration of..erm...well somewhat documents you can find similar stuff.
     
  5. TdC

    TdC Trem's hunky sex love muffin Staff member Moderator



    isn't that antecedents?
     
  6. Kryten

    Kryten Old Cow. Moderator

    Ancestors then, for want of a better word - was at work, couldnt think of much else apart from "fix laptop" "fix laptop" etc :|
     
  7. Tom

    Tom FH is my second home

    Traitors Day more like.

    Still, the American win was the French's loss, until Napolean came along that is and the frogs realised that the British were rulers of the world.
     
  8. Maljonic

    Maljonic Can't get enough of FH

    I don't think Americans actually celebrate the Declaration of Independence document, it's more one of the defining points in their history that they have the public holiday for - lots of countries do that.
     
  9. Raven

    Raven Brrrrr!

    Hypocrisy? what do you expect from a nation built on genocide :p
     
  10. Trem

    Trem That there, that's not me. Moderator

    American Indians ftw!

    Jesus, if ever a race was given a rough deal it was them.
     
  11. throdgrain

    throdgrain FH is my second home

    At work the American owners decided that we should celebrate 4th of July yesterday, with competitions and fancy dress and what have you. They seem oblivious of the fact that this is England, the other combatant in that war :confused:

    I dealt with it by taking the day off holiday.
     
  12. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    I think the Aborigines in Australia have probably had an equally hard time with things...

    Oh wait that was the English colonizers who exterminated them...

    I think there are 200,000 in Oz but in 1770 there were 300,000. I guess they have built up their population again slowly after being reduced to 40,000.


    But then again weren't the first settlers in America also english?
     
  13. Maljonic

    Maljonic Can't get enough of FH

    We also invented concentration camps in South Africa, but that hardly ever gets a mention... and it should also be remembered, I think, that the "they" who butchered the Indians in America was "us" who moved there from here.
     
  14. Thadius

    Thadius Part of the furniture

    Thats Britain then?
     
  15. throdgrain

    throdgrain FH is my second home

    Who gives a fuck though? Not me ;)
     
  16. Maljonic

    Maljonic Can't get enough of FH

    To be fair I think it's more of a Human thing than a nationality thing anyway, I don't think there are many places on Earth that don't have some kind of genocide atrocity in their past - and there's a fair few where it's still happening.
     
  17. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    :eek:

    no in fact if you the english had done that in Southern Africa perhaps Zim would be better off.

    ;)
     
  18. Whipped

    Whipped Part of the furniture

    Just have. To be honest, reading it just makes them seem like whiney little bitches ;).

    Plus the whole bit about the right of the people to rise up if a goverment is appresing them .... hmmm, seems Osama and his band could possibly use the state's own declaration against them ;)

    I also still think they should have kept the typo in the Bill of Rights. You know, the one that says that everyone should have the right to Arm Bears ;)
     
  19. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    "Superior" culture (as in better weapons), meets "inferior" culture; inferior culture gets royally fucked. Not exactly news. The English (and their various offshoots) were no different to any other culture in history in that respect; and not just other Europeans; people rarely know that the Zulus were ruthlessly colonising their southern neighbours before the Dutch and English arrived (actually, after they arrived as well), or just how genocidal the Aztecs were before the Spanish. I'm not going to lose any sleep about how terrible us Anglo-Saxons were.
     
  20. bob269

    bob269 Fledgling Freddie

    We used to rule the world and now we are a bunch of nancy folk getting shit on all over. We became too nice and people saw our weakness and took advantage.

    PC'ness fuckoff, lets take back the world.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Raven

    Raven Brrrrr!

    Oh right didnt know that, which group of people did the British kill off before we came to Britain? i was under the impression that we are a collection of Romans, Vikings, Gauls and Ze Germans that pretty much integrated with the few Celts that were here?
     
  22. Bullitt

    Bullitt One of Freddy's beloved

    We may have commited genocide in the past but at least we did it with a stiff upper lip and a spot of tea what what.

    Hair on a bobbin!
     
  23. throdgrain

    throdgrain FH is my second home

    Rarr!! :D
     
  24. Dukat

    Dukat Resident Freddy

    I always wonder at people in England - supposedly "English" people - who never seem to stop going on about how bad we were.

    Judging from what other cultures were/are like, its a damned good job we did what we did back then - if one of the other cultures took over as much land as we did I think we'd have seen something far worse happen.

    Imagine an Islamic nation doing what we did? I reckon we'd have seen genocide on a far worse scale and I really dont think that they would ever give up thier empire as graciously as we did. Imagine what happened to Khartoum in the 1800's or whenever it was that the Mahdists massacred the city, but happening worldwide instead.

    I know we did some despicable things, but tbh I dont think it was half as bad as some of the things others have done.
     
  25. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    Yes you may well be right there.

    But the point is you can't then waggle your finger at America and say you were naughty for killing all those native Indians...especially since those doing the killing had English heritage...

    You can't keep living in the past. You need to look at whats happening now and make judgements on that as every nation has done something awful in their histories I'm sure.

    And yes I think England is getting a bit soft these days. A Hard nosed approach is definitely required on many things
     
  26. throdgrain

    throdgrain FH is my second home

    Look up the Turkish extermination of Armenians around the end of the last century. The rivers were blocked with bodies for days.

    Unfortunately out media and government have taken it upon themselves to make us feel sorry for everything, regardless of whether we should or not, backed up by an all-powerfull Hollywood with a need for someone to blame who isnt American.

    Unfortunately most of the last generation, and some of the one before, have fallen for it hook line and sinker, so that now it's becoming accepted fact by default.

    Thank god for younger people like you mate tbh.
     
  27. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    Throd and pikey sitting in a tree
    k
    I
    S
    S
    I
    N
    G

    :p
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest


    words of wisdom my friend.
     
  29. Overdriven

    Overdriven Not a sandwich

    I just find it sad that they didn't actually play the movie :( Nothing would of brightened up my evening than seeing the Whitehouse destroyed by a mega laser.
     
  30. Kryten

    Kryten Old Cow. Moderator

    The most sensible thing said so far, Overdriven ;)
     

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