If you play an infil you must read this

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Well seeing as Jox has alerted the shadowhiners, infils should be aware of this too:

http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rog...2/78799461/?467

Basically:

1. Use CS styles. Spec CS high.

2. Do not spec main weapon or offhand above effective 51 unless you plan to use the styles in these lines as your main damage output. Above 51 effective your base damage does not change - only your style bonus.

3. Ignore the ws stat on your screen - its a red herring and has no impact on damage or hit rates.

I dropped mh and raised cs. My dmage has increased and my hit/miss rates have not changed.

 

[Urgluf]

2. Do not spec main weapon or offhand above effective 51 unless you plan to use the styles in these lines as your main damage output. Above 51 effective your base damage does not change - only your style bonus.


> Dragonfang?
> Atemyst/Diamond Slash?

 

[Kagato]

Link not working but i'd take anything on the vnboards with a pinch of salt till personally tested.

However I think many will be reluctant to give up dragonfang

 

[Aybabtu]

The testing was done by Wyrd i think, and he does have some credibility when it comes to testing But yes, a lot of people might wanna keep dragon fang.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Well, the growth rates on garrote/achilles are higher than amy/diamond.

You have a lot of spec points saved from leaving thrust/slash at mid thirties to spend elsewhere.

As for dragonfang - haven't missed it at all. Now if it were at lower spec, or a higher duration then I'd reconsider. But spending hundreds of extra spec points to get what a NS gets at 25 spec - spec points that are increasing my damage output elsewhere for a 5 sec stun at 50 spec. No - CS is where the damage is.

I dropped my weapon and increased my CS. My damage has gone up, and theres no difference in my hit/miss rates.

 

[Vodkafairy]

50 dw/cs for zee win

but if you want to keep dragonfang, at semi high rr you can still get 34 cs next to 50 dw/thrust, soo.. you're still overpowered!

 

[Aybabtu]

5sec stun at little end cost is still very good.... when i still played that was still how i won my fights....

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

50 dw/cs for zee win

but if you want to keep dragonfang, at semi high rr you can still get 34 cs next to 50 dw/thrust, soo.. you're still overpowered!

lol - says the ns.

At rr5 a NS can be 36Pierce, 35st 35 env, 44cs,25cd

An infil to get the same stun is 50th, 35st,35env,44cs,18dw.

Except all those spec points over 36 in thrust are wasted - they do nothing if you're using cs styles (which you should be - they're better than thrust/dw). So its the NS thats better if the infil specs for the stun - plus remedy=envenom immune plus the dd (as the infil has blown all their extra spec points on getting the stun).

Nope - NS were top of the tree in OF, and they are again.

 

[Vodkafairy]

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered when ns had to spend 10 points to stand a small chance vs infils with 9 sec off evade stun every 30 min

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered with a 50 dmg insta dd every 20 sec, taking as much end as a regular style

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered without working side stun

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered with infils having a .80 growth rate 'anytime' with bleed and medium end usage, where ns had either very high end anytime chain (g/ah) and fuck all offhand hits, or .60 growth rate anytime.

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered when there werent any legendary weapons yet and we had to either fight mid aswell as alb thrust resistant armor, or suffer the s/c debuff with bladespec we could purge once every 30 min

yeah, ns were definitely overpowered when we had to spend 29 points on ap3 to counter a rr1 infil with spec af and 36% thrust resists. yep yep.

...yeah!

you're kinda clueless, im not really surprised tho, since you're probably a powerleveled infil with a big mouth hiding behind a stupid fh name and too scared to give their ingame name (right?)

that said, im bladespec and i do fine, but thats mostly because i spent about 2 months on perfecting my template to give me a little edge over other assassins in general. but, i still have to swap 4 items every 12 mins to use AF charges, which uses up the arti timer aswell, to stand a chance against medium/high rr infils.

 

[fotm]

smilewhenyousaythat = [16:10] <TiwazBot> Name: Asp <UK Mercs> Server: Excalibur Race: Saracen Class: Infiltrator Level: 50 RP: 269,340 (RR4L2) Last Week: 22,138 Realm: Albion

Just another n00b that no one ever heard of

 

[Chilly]

I think youv all missed the point a bit really, I mean its all a load of bollocks really since smite > all

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

smilewhenyousaythat = [16:10] <TiwazBot> Name: Asp <UK Mercs> Server: Excalibur Race: Saracen Class: Infiltrator Level: 50 RP: 269,340 (RR4L2) Last Week: 22,138 Realm: Albion

Just another n00b that no one ever heard of

That would be just another n00b who got 4rrs solo and unbuffed pre toa - and is only back in the frontiers since 1.70 went live. And I'm usually solo, don't haunt bridges or drop offs and always get involved in keep takes. So no, I'm not some ubahl33t epeen stroking powergamer who measures my importance, enjoyment and success in rps and rrs - thank goodness.

So yeah - I'm a casual player who plays a number of different chars, but one who does his research. Wyrrds test looks sound and has been corroborated by a number of others - anecdotally its improved my infil.

As for ns - well take the performance stats. Pre NF and post 1.62 it was NS>infil>SB. Post NF its NS>infil>SB. What wyrrds tests show is that not only can the ns match the infil for damage, but if the infil specs for the stun the ns will exceed them.

 

[Daws]

lol chilly

 

[Vodkafairy]

As for ns - well take the performance stats. Pre NF and post 1.62 it was NS>infil>SB. Post NF its NS>infil>SB. What wyrrds tests show is that not only can the ns match the infil for damage, but if the infil specs for the stun the ns will exceed them.

for nightshades cs is about equal to cd, the offhand hits make up for lower style damage, but the thing with dw is that you have an 'anytime' style that is high growth rate next to more offhand hits

combined with spec AF, an infil will outdamage a nightshade normally.

now there is another advantage for infils, which is that you have so many specpoints you can get the utility from cs (pa for bubblepop / garrote for anytime snare) aswell as your high damage dual shadows, aswell as your high offhand hit rate

sure having stun at lower level is nice, but you can't really use that as an excuse to say nightshades are better in any way, you just cant, since stun isnt needed to win fights at all. people get purge mostly for melee stuns, so it wont even stick that often. infact, people will purge stun aswell as debuff putting you in a worse position than before

infils > nightshades at low rr, while you gain rr's they come closer and closer to each other. sb's on the other hand, they just suck balls in their current form :/

 

[Vasconcelos]

AP3 was crap

 

[Vodkafairy]

AP3 was crap

it was nice, but it only equals out advantages albs already had... for shitloads of points

was abit overpowered when legendaries were introduced tho

 

[Meduza]

NS > Infil, no doubt.

 

[Worfen]

http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/78799461/?210

There's a working link for those of u who had probs with the original posted one..

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

for nightshades cs is about equal to cd, the offhand hits make up for lower style damage, but the thing with dw is that you have an 'anytime' style that is high growth rate next to more offhand hits

combined with spec AF, an infil will outdamage a nightshade normally.

now there is another advantage for infils, which is that you have so many specpoints you can get the utility from cs (pa for bubblepop / garrote for anytime snare) aswell as your high damage dual shadows, aswell as your high offhand hit rate

sure having stun at lower level is nice, but you can't really use that as an excuse to say nightshades are better in any way, you just cant, since stun isnt needed to win fights at all. people get purge mostly for melee stuns, so it wont even stick that often. infact, people will purge stun aswell as debuff putting you in a worse position than before

infils > nightshades at low rr, while you gain rr's they come closer and closer to each other. sb's on the other hand, they just suck balls in their current form :/

What anytime style is that/ certainly not Dual Shadows as this is a positional style - one that can be avoided. The anytime styles between alb and hib bldes/pierce/slash/thrust differ by 0.02 due to the historical setup where hib only used to have end regen.

The CS garrotte/achilles chain produces more damage than DS.

AF charge replicates exactly what AF buff does (and yes +buff% gear works on charges), as does a haste charge for Alb compared to a haste buff in hib.

My example above was, if an infil was speccing for the stun then the NS would outdamage them. Though you've touched on my rationale for not going that high - purge. I expect SBs to have purge - they seem to fixate on it (but then they have had a long term habit of fixating on things - unfortunately its usually been the wrong thing).

NS are king of the hill - the long standing complaint used to be that infils could spec higher in mainhand without losing anything. Well now it seems quite the reverse is true - the NS gains by not having to spec high in mainhand, plus remedy, plus insta dd.

 

[Vodkafairy]

What anytime style is that/ certainly not Dual Shadows as this is a positional style - one that can be avoided. The anytime styles between alb and hib bldes/pierce/slash/thrust differ by 0.02 due to the historical setup where hib only used to have end regen.

dual shadows can be used pretty much all the time when fighting pretty much all the time if you know how. that makes it 'anytime'

The CS garrotte/achilles chain produces more damage than DS.

if you spec 50 CS, yes, with 39-44 it will be about the same. and either way its still >>> taunt that hibs are stuck with.

AF charge replicates exactly what AF buff does (and yes +buff% gear works on charges), as does a haste charge for Alb compared to a haste buff in hib.

oh really, why do you think i mentioned i had to swap four items to get a decent AF charge. also, af charges are more expensive, require recharging every so often, reset re-use timer for artis (where you can use haste pots). and still spec AF has a bigger effect

My example above was, if an infil was speccing for the stun then the NS would outdamage them. Though you've touched on my rationale for not going that high - purge. I expect SBs to have purge - they seem to fixate on it (but then they have had a long term habit of fixating on things - unfortunately its usually been the wrong thing).

you don't know what its like having str weapons only and being hit by str/con debuff i think, you really have no idea how it cripples your damage. sb's have no remedy, they need purge against every decent assassin to be able to win. luckily most are noobs you dont need purge against, so purge2 will suffice

NS are king of the hill - the long standing complaint used to be that infils could spec higher in mainhand without losing anything. Well now it seems quite the reverse is true - the NS gains by not having to spec high in mainhand, plus remedy, plus insta dd.

insta DD hits for 70 damage, thats a third of a swing if not less, please stop using that as an argument... you do gain style damage from speccing in a weaponline, which is nice if you use ds/df, or thrust sidestyle backed up with ds (heavy haste debuff afaik, very underrated )

while still having option to get PA and top debuffs.

edit-

you still seem to be convinced you need the stun to be overpowered like i said, 50 dw + 50 cs is fucking mad damage output no other assassin will be able to come near to. so please, cut the crap about being ns being the strongest.

remedy is in some situations overpowered, i can admit that, but still superiour spec points and 15 min (or 5) is > all. but as said before, the higher rr, the closer the gap

 

[Konah]

Well, the growth rates on garrote/achilles are higher than amy/diamond.

at the cost of alot more endo.

wont effect grp mercs much since we got nowhere to dump any saved points anyway... and backslash dmg would suffer ;(

for infils i spose it lets u dump some extra into dw, handy now DR is gawn.

 

[Appollo]

Im 50 thrust 50 dw 34 cs, best spec i ever been, PA capping @ 790 (was 870 when i was 50cs). Why would i give up DF? hitting for 360 isnt good enuf???

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

I don't disagree on the latter point that high rr bring classes closer - and its at high rr that 50cs/50dw is viable IF you sacrifice the stun.

SBs - hopefully - will now stop whining with the realisation that their damage appeared low because they were speccing wrongly and trying to be minizerkers.

However my point remains - if the infil wants the stun the NS will be better. Simple as that.

 

[Appollo]

However my point remains - if the infil wants the stun the NS will be better. Simple as that.

how so?

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

how so?

Well based on RR5:

At rr5 a NS can be 36Pierce, 35st 35 env, 44cs,25cd

An infil to get the same stun is 50th, 35st,35env,44cs,18dw.

All points >36 in thrust are wasted - they add nothing to base damage or hit chances. So the NS has more dw, plus remedy, plus a dd.

 

[Vodkafairy]

your logic is really flawed, you keep picking a shit spec and complain about it not being equal to ns. boo fucking hoo, you get more dmg on dragonfang itself, you get more defence with spec af, you get 2% less dual wield chance.

pick a decent spec and you get stronger styles, more offhand hits next to PA.

 

[Jergiot]

your logic is really flawed, you keep picking a shit spec and complain about it not being equal to ns. boo fucking hoo, you get more dmg on dragonfang itself, you get more defence with spec af, you get 2% less dual wield chance.

pick a decent spec and you get stronger styles, more offhand hits next to PA.

why do u keep bringing up spec af like u dont have anything in return?

 

[Minau]

hitting for 360 isnt good enuf???

sick dmg >.<

 

[Vodkafairy]

why do u keep bringing up spec af like u dont have anything in return?

spec af makes more impact than haste

 

[Appollo]

Well based on RR5:

At rr5 a NS can be 36Pierce, 35st 35 env, 44cs,25cd

An infil to get the same stun is 50th, 35st,35env,44cs,18dw.

All points >36 in thrust are wasted - they add nothing to base damage or hit chances. So the NS has more dw, plus remedy, plus a dd.

Cant say i agree, i use DF for the damage not the stun can be anything upto 360 after debuff, DS is pretty much a anytime if u use it right, and PA/CD (PA capping for 790) means most shit dies.

Disclaimer: since NF iv had very bad lag and have tried many different RA specs, anyone claiming to have pwned me can go forth and multiply.

PS and can those NS's who camp bridges with that buff stripping cloak plz do the same.

Ty, have a nice day.