If they all think like this!!!

[Furr]

As you know im in paris at the moment sampling the french way of life. Yesterday I was speaking to this French English teacher in front of her class, and we got on to the subject of Iraq. Now I had heard that the French nearly always oppose the UK and USA but i'd always taken it with a grain of salt.

Untill yesterday.....

Its starts with her talking about 9/11, then progressed to Iraq, I state that unless Iraq allows weapons inspectors in, then the most likely course of action that the UK and USA will take is some sort of military action since the EU member states seem to be very slow on the matter.

She then says 'yes but shouldn't countries be allowed to develop on there own'

Me - WTF!!!!!!!! So your saying that a Extremeist Radical Dictatorship should be allowed to build weapons of mass destruction!!!! A dictatorship that hates the west!!!

the frenchy replies - Well how do you know that they are even building such weapons?

Me - The US and British Intelligence agencies seem to think so, and the threat of Iraq even having one nuclear weapon is enough to provoke concern

Frenchy- Its alwaysl the same with the US and UK, they are bullies, bullying countries to get there way and achieve there objectives.

All the while the tension in the room is rising, and the class looks a bit concerned as they see both of us getting ready to explode.

Me - I do admit that there is a large concern about the Oil, yes! But without oil society as we know it would slowly grind to a halt. and a goverment such as Saddam Hussains should never be allowed to alter the balace of power in such a sensitve region.

frenchy - So. why do the British care, you have 'your' North Sea oil. Its just your country constantly defying the EU and running to the aide of your freinds the Americans.

Me - You dont seem to have a grasp on the situation, do you. They are a terrible dictatorship and it should have been resolved during the gulf war. But it wasn't.

Frenchy - The Chinese are a dictatorship but the americans and British are always supporting them. even though they violate human rights. Sell organs kill hundreds.

Me - For one thing they are not a dictatorship, they are communists and what the hell can we do about China,
1stly they are not worst in the world.
2ndly start a war against China, are you mad!!!!!!!

Frenchy - they are a dictatorship......

Me - NO THEY ARE NOT, GET A DICTONARY AND LOOK THE GOD DAMN WORD UP.

now i have missed out alot of the 'debate' as it was very long and consisted of both of us mainly attacking each others country.

But i now know why we hate the french..... Its because politically they are complete tossers

 

[Will]

Err, I think I fall on the teachers side on this arguement.

 

[kanonfodda]

tough one, without access to the files of either british or us agencies, I can't really offer a real answer. I do think saddam should be taken out, but not in a traditional war, all that will achieve is to kill off more soldiers, just doing their jobs.

I do hate the french though, they really piss me off

 

[Wij]

Well I'm not entirely convinced about a war on Iraq but it wouldn't matter if they were discussing giving food to the starving. The French disagree with the Americans and British on everything as a point of principle It's easier for them to stomach than being grateful for saving their arses in the war

 

[Furr]

I think it was that i was the only british person there and that she kept saying we were bullies that got my blood boiling

Bloody french

 

[Will]

I've always found from speaking to any French mates that they are more anti-American than anti-English (they get on fine with Scots). I guess it's the way that the UK government has jumped into America's arms like an obedient puppy on this issue.

 

[Furr]

The french like the scots, its all to do with that King james thing. or something like that.

Are the french still baning English beef?

 

[GDW]

But was she cute thats what I want to know

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Itcheh
Err, I think I fall on the teachers side on this arguement.

Agreed.

I fail to understand the French racism, I guess it comes from reading tabloids.

 

[Shocko]

King James was queer(seriously), however the French weere scheming with the Scotts way before him...


The French teacher is entirely correct. You can't enforce your views on other countrys. The Americans think that communism is wrong, hence they started invading countrys like Vietnam in the 50s. They also think Socialism is wrong, so they started assassinating socialist leaders of countrys in South America. Whether you think Saddam Hussein is too unstable to control such powerful weapons, the reason why the Americans want to attack Iraq, is the same reason why they were assassinating democratically elected leaders in the 50s - They think the whole world should bow down to them!

Bollocks to that, i say - I have no problems with the French, and i admire their ability to stand up against US bullying, whilst Blair's licking Bush's arse.

You are in the minority, Furry Knight, i think you should seek out this teacher, and inform her that the majority of Britons do not think like you, and would follow her reasoning. Don't believe me? Go take a look at the public oppinion polls from the past 6months

 

[Furr]

Well at least i provided the forum with a good topic!!!

Public opinion mood shifts

 

[lojik]

Love them Frenchies

http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/5_13/francesucks.html

Oh and I think the French were in Vietnam a long time before the Yanks?

 

[Will]

Originally posted by furofknight
Well at least i provided the forum with a good topic!!!

Public opinion mood shifts

Ahh, people are sheep. Nothing has changed, except America threatened Iraq more, and they allowed weapons inspectors in. Now George Bush is saying he wants to attack anyway, but he's not really got an excuse any more.

 

[Furr]

I do admit that if Iraq allow in weapons inspectors free of strings then there should be no military action. qnd that if the Us is still determined to attack then they are being arrogant.

 

[Shocko]

Originally posted by The Guardian
There are also clear divides by age and class, with the middle classes generally opposed to the idea of war with Iraq, while the working class and poorest are mostly in favour.

It's the bloody uninformed lot that are being swumng over by Bush's speach

Oh, and that Bob link is an example why Americans are gh3y. And that's a fact

 

[Furr]

UK is teh bestish, everybody else is poo

 

[GDW]

Dammit Fur was she cute or not.....this might affect my opinion of the subject

 

[granny]

Er... the French teacher was right and you were talking shite.

 

[Furr]

No crusty oldish french women

Im sorry i was working off 2 week old data and TV wise over here all i have is CNN and the french channels. But i have my laptop on the internet, so off to the BBC web site I go.

Reading my post i do suppose i was being a bit arrogant, But hey i love a good heated debate, who doesn't especially with a french person.

 

[xane]

The problem is people draw different lines in the sand, every country in the world has some sort of oppressive nature, but where you draw your line it a matter of opinion. Iraq is in no uncertain terms one of the most opressive regiemes going in the world today, however, there are worse, and there are plenty of people who still consider Iraq "within the bounderies".

France have always had an isolationist nature, just like the Americans had prior to World War II. The French have always gone it alone, very bravely in most cases, I actually applaude them often for taking a stand, not like the bunch of wobblers in the UK.

Take the issue of NATO Council, for years France refused to take its seat because they opposed the American dominance, and they were basically right. The UK often took the Americans side and get walked right over before it was realised. Another issue is "green politics", the French don't stand for any shit from tree-hugging hippies from unrepresentative NGOs. They have a nuclear power industry to be proud of and don't have "protestors" clogging up the streets (they have students and farmers instead).

France also bemone the empire that never was, envious of the UK for having a domain that was truely worldwide, dispair over the loss of the French language and its replacement by English, even the birth of England was by a rebellious Frenchman who later returned to claim most of their country, no wonder they treat us the way they do !

Saying all that, I don't the issue is actually a French-English thing, people have different views and that's that

 

[GDW]

Funnily enough I was chatting to my Grandfather recently who is a Dunkirk and Burma veteran. Although his short term memory is shot (hes 90 yrs old) he has a perfect memory for things which happened in his youth.

Anyway he said that despite the fact he fought against Germans and Japanese he still claims to this day that he would trust either one of them before he would trust a frenchman.

Must hark back to the Norman Conquest days which I think the English people have yet to come to terms with (just think of all that French blood flowing through English veins)

 

[Lester]

Originally posted by Grandadwrinkle
Funnily enough I was chatting to my Grandfather recently who is a Dunkirk and Burma veteran. Although his short term memory is shot (hes 90 yrs old) he has a perfect memory for things which happened in his youth.

Anyway he said that despite the fact he fought against Germans and Japanese he still claims to this day that he would trust either one of them before he would trust a frenchman.

Must hark back to the Norman Conquest days which I think the English people have yet to come to terms with (just think of all that French blood flowing through English veins)

More likely down to collaborators.

Anyway , my two cents....

Most foreigners as people are ok, I've known many French people and about 10% are great, 60% are ok and the rest a bunch of wankers, basically pretty much what you find everywhere.

But all countries have a national character and stereotype which quite often are true(ish) and the French national character, quite frankly sucks balls big time.

As for our country following on the coattails of the U.S. - it's our government that does that - not the people. I think that most fair minded Brits would like to see Saddam in a jail or grave ASAP. He should have been toppled long before the Gulf War - for instance when he gassed 5,000 of his own people. Yes, it's true that us western countries seem more interested when we have financial interests in a country (France, is one of the worlds largest arms dealers BTW) but that doesnt make it any less right to want Saddam out of the picture.

 

[Mellow-]

The French hate the US and the UK

The Scots hate the English

The US hate the middle east

The English hate the french, the Germans, and the Americans

Blaire loves it up the anal passage from Bush

 

[Daffeh]

everyone hates each other, there sorted

 

[Ch3tan]

The Us are bullies, every Uk government kisses up to them. They are not wrong to want weapon inspectors in Iraq, but that is clearly not bush's aim. He is simply a bit angry and wants a war under his belt. Just like daddy.

 

[prime1]

The French government is only interested in averting a war with Iraq because it wants to win the lucrative contracts for rebuilding infrastructure that will become available when sanctions are no longer available. Same with Russia, who only began to be swayed teh other way when the US offered the energy cooperation deal and to sort out the $8 billlion that Iraq owes them.

China dosnt care, although its concerned about US dominance.

People keep harping on about this being an economic war, its all about oil blah blah blah, well most money is there to be gained from NOT having a war, and funnily enough its the countries that stand to gain the most from no war that are giving the most opposition to it.

Read this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2263993.stm

There is no need for the US or UK to get Iraqi oil, although it would be nice for maintaining a steady price, as currently there is a large surplus in the market.

The French as a nation always occupy the moral high ground very vocally, but only when it actually suits them, otherwise they either shutup or secretly and quietly support it.

Im sure the French were concerned when they went on with their nuclear tests not too long ago, against massive international condemnation.

It has often been said that France is a great country, it is just a shame about the French. With regards to the French on the EU policies, well they flout them as much as the next country, i suspect the UKs records on abiding by EU law is a lot better than theirs.

France is probably also miffed because our econmy has now overtaken theirs as well.

France also seems determined ot ignore the fact that we saved their arses in two world wars (and it was France that got us in the first one - they came to us wanting to be "friends" simply because they were scared of Germany). At least other european states still acknowlesge the service we did them - for example every year Norway sends us the "tallest pine in the forests" for (i think) the Trafalgar Christmas tree, simply as an ongoing way of saying thanks, its a token, but its an important one none the less.

And as for this crap about blair being bush's poodle, have u actually stopped to consider why the positions are so similar?

It couldnt be because the two countries are very similar, share similar cultures, similar tastes, similar goals, similar hopes, similar methods, more cooperation etc It stands to reason that our outlook will be very similar on most occasions.

We do oppose them on a number of key issues also, environment (kyoto protocol - i think Bush's refusal to go along with this is very very wrong) and trade - we are about to inflict sanctions on US trade imports over the tax breaks given to US steel makers to prop up the US steel industry. Its not all love and kisses.

If the counter arguments from the French teacher had actually been posed in another Euro country, say Norway/Denmar/Sweden etc then I may have taken the comments more serisously, but not from the French.

 

[Gumbo]

Did I read something recently about the Israelis bombing a French built nuclear reactor in Iraq in the 80's sometime?

Maybe there's a few outstanding orders on the books that the French might like to cash in on?

I would research this some more, but I can't be arsed.

 

[wolfeeh]

hmmm

skipping back to a much earlier point - why do we feel we have the right to get involved in iraq;

is it not the moral obligation of all decent human beings to oppose wrongdoing and evil?

this comes in many many forms, and there are many different levels of "evil" from opposing the school playground bully... to an international scale where you kick evil dictator ass... no one complained about skoolin' adolf hitler for killing bazillions of jews did they???

so do we or do we not have every right to be opposed to him on the grounds that he commits genocide against his own citizens (is that the word?)...

i'm sure people would be pretty up in fucking arms if we started gassing all our illegal immigrants (hmm now there'sp/i] an idea... )

are we perfect? no we fucking aren't there's loadsa things we could do better - but we don't generally hinder the freedom of our citizens unless it's for a greater good (taxes ) and at the end of the day, if we don't like the way our country is run, we change it. i don't think it's that simple for say iraq.

 

[Wij]

Damn - I change my vote to prime1

Oh, and lojik is correct. The French were in vietnam before the yanks. At least that's what I gathered from Apocalypse Now Redux

 

[wolfeeh]

hmmm *off topic*

what exactly is the fucking deal with the blah tags not working anymore?

//edit: MOTHERFUCKER they bloody worked in this post. i refer to the italic tags. which show up as post content in the post before this one, but not in this one....