If there was an election tomorrow...

[Tom]

The point I was attempting to make was that you are a self confessed Tory, and therefore an arse.

Oh right. So the majority of the population in England are arses then.

Ok.

I'd rather vote for a party that actually understands the role of the state, and not one that seeks to enlarge it.

And yes, I think students should pay for their education.

 

[Mofo8]

If the majority of England were Tories, we'd still have a Conservative government, instead of a pseudo-Conservative one.

There are something like around 50 Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster. If you subtract them from the total number of Labour MPs, you're still left with around 300 to the Tories 200.

People can argue all day about the current first past the post electoral system used in Westminster elections but in the last general election the Tories share of the vote was 32.3% to Labour's 35.3%.

Hardly what I'd describe as a majority.

 

[Dukat]

The point I was attempting to make was that you are a self confessed Tory, and therefore an arse.

Sorry to jump into this convosation half way through, but exactly how does supporting the conservatives make someone an arse?

I've disagreed with Tom on other points in the past but I'd never call someone an arse because of thier political preference, unless of course that preference was extremist.

 

[Tom]

If the majority of England were Tories, we'd still have a Conservative government, instead of a pseudo-Conservative one.

But we don't do we? And funnily enough more people voted Conservative than Labour in England in the last general election. Which does actually mean that the majority of England is Tory.

 

[mank!]

Oh I seem to have hit a nerve. Tell me, why are universities left right and centre closing their physics, chemistry and biology departments?

Possibly because it isn't sexy to be working at Siemens, earning £50,000 a year making magnets for MRI scanners? Instead, they'd rather be sat in a smelly one-bedroom flat working in a call centre?

BOLLOCKS. I've been to college and university, I got within weeks of my final exams and ditched it in favour of work experience - because at the end of the day, practical experience is worth far more in life than a qualification. Ask any employer.

Because science is dull.

I detest the view of education as nothing more than a means to an end, it detracts entirely from the value of what is being taught. It shouldn't be about learning x, y and z to pass an exam which gives you a piece of paper. Education in my eyes is about learning, broadening your mind and expanding your knowledge - reducing ignorance.

Of course it's worthless having a psychology degree if you're working at B&Q but if that is what you want to learn, then I say go for it. You don't need to have a successful career to be happy.

Going back to the original point, I would actually consider voting Tory in the future primarily because Labour don't deserve yet another term. I'd feel dirty though.

 

[Furr]

Not totaly true tom, alot of companies, abroad especially won't let you progress above a certain level unless the "degree" box, is ticked. And say you wanted to get a Job in Dubai, Singapore or Hong Kong etc then without that box ticked they won't hire you full stop, but then it depends on the field your going into I'd imagine.

Science isn't crap mank! Your teachers were probably crap, problem is that the only places Science, Maths, Literary subjects do well now are public schools. reason? They have the money to hire teachers who probably have a good degree minimum in the subject they teach. MY school for instance most teacher would have had a Doctorate, and surprise surprise the tope subjects taken for A-levels are Physics, Maths and Chemistry....

 

[nath]

Oh right. So the majority of the population in England are arses then.

Regardless of what they vote, the above statement is totally true.

 

[Bullitt]

Nothing like the UK then?

That wasn't the point, it was more of the notion that 'a civilised and wealthy country' doesn't necessarily make it a good one.

 

[throdgrain]

Regardless of what they vote, the above statement is totally true.

Yeah dont worry about the avarage working man in the street ay Nath, you're the elite arnt you

 

[throdgrain]

That wasn't the point, it was more of the notion that 'a civilised and wealthy country' doesn't necessarily make it a good one.

By whose standards? It fucking does make it a good country you silly twat.

 

[nath]

Yes of course, and you're the down to earth hardworking chap with a heart of gold.

That's not actually anywhere near what I was saying. I was saying, most people are *****. It's not a political comment, voting conservative doesn't make them so. It's just a fact - most people are self-serving (to quote Dr Cox from Scrubs) bastard coated bastards with bastard fillings.

 

[throdgrain]

Well of course they are self-serving, what do you expect them to do, vote for things they dont want?
That doesnt make them *****, that makes them normal really.

 

[nath]

Are you intentionally COMPLETELY missing what I'm saying? I've said twice, I'm not talking about how people vote/politics.

 

[throdgrain]

No, you're just saying most people are *****, I cant understand how you can qualify such a statement unless you have a hugely self-satisfied and over-high opinion of yourself ?

 

[nath]

Not at all, I include myself in the majority.

 

[dysfunction]

I was saying, most people are *****. It's not a political comment, voting conservative doesn't make them so. It's just a fact - most people are self-serving (to quote Dr Cox from Scrubs) bastard coated bastards with bastard fillings.

I disagree.

Yes people do look after themselves and why not?? Its called self preservation!
I would say the majority of people are not bastards.

Its always the small number that are that create the most noise and make it appear that your statement is true.

Most people would just like to get on with their lives with very little conflict with the others they interact with.

 

[Bullitt]

By whose standards? It fucking does make it a good country you silly twat.

Here i'm sat thinking you were an 'old twat'.

Turns out your merely a child...or demented.

Or maybe, just maybe you can rise to the idea of entertaining a thought...don't worry you don't have to accept it.

 

[throdgrain]

Here i'm sat thinking you were an 'old twat'.

Turns out your merely a child...or demented.

Or maybe, just maybe you can rise to the idea of entertaining a thought...don't worry you don't have to accept it.

Yeah genius mate you're a master philospher. Or just wrong. You work it out.

 

[Bullitt]

Yeah genius mate you're a master philospher. Or just wrong. You work it out.

I claimed to be neither one nor the other, and i'm never the last one

 

[throdgrain]

I am a bit demented mind ...

 

[DaGaffer]

The more time I spend away from the UK the more depressing this whole debate looks. The tories, while not as intrusive in one´s day to day life as labour, probably won´t take away all the shit labour have brought in if they do get in, but at least they probably won´t make it worse.

I loathe them all tbh and would rather not come back - oh for a nice lottery win right now...

 

[tris-]

BOLLOCKS. I've been to college and university, I got within weeks of my final exams and ditched it in favour of work experience - because at the end of the day, practical experience is worth far more in life than a qualification. Ask any employer.

surely that depends entirely on what job you do. some jobs dont require previous education and can be learnt purely by being there.

some jobs its impossible to do without the appropriate education, otherwise we could all go shadow doctors and make everyone a GP.

 

[Tom]

I'm no expert but I would imagine a very large part of a doctor's education is probably walking around hospitals with other qualified doctors, and watching what they do.

 

[tris-]

I'm no expert but I would imagine a very large part of a doctor's education is probably walking around hospitals with other qualified doctors, and watching what they do.

you are correct if scrubs is to be taken as being accurate. but they also need some kind of sit down and read books type of shit. i dont think you can be a doctor ONLY by following someone around. otherwise why isnt everyone becoming a doctor?
its like you couldnt be a lawyer without having studied it.
and to use an example thats personal to me, i cant be a trading standards officer without achieving the diploma in trading standards, which involves study (my degree) and then 2 years in the field with final exams after a bit more studying.
and yes before you mention it, you can do many years work WITH study (note: you CANNOT become one without some kind of sit down study and being taught). with that route you dont need a degree but that doesnt make the degree any less worth it.

 

[Furr]

Well all I know is that people I know who have "proper" degrees, good 2.1s and above from reputable Uni's are already doing really well for themselves, a degree is definitely worth it gives you a lot more options and in many companies means you don't have a glass ceiling for your promotions and more importantly income! I've still got 2 years left before I graduate... sigh*

 

[leggy]

I'm no expert but I would imagine a very large part of a doctor's education is probably walking around hospitals with other qualified doctors, and watching what they do.

Same with all professions. I agree with you Tom that practical experience is worth the most. However, some professions really do need some evidence of decent academic ability. This doesn't always have to come in the form of a degree though but it's probably the most easily accepted evidence.

(This comment does not include media studies or psychology degrees. These should be kept to kinder eggs only.)

 

[nath]

I actually find psychology quite interesting, however I do agree with the general sentiments here - added to that EVERY psychology student I've ever met (not an astronomical amount but a few) have believed that after 2 months of the course they can successfully analyse every facet of your personality. Which is lame.

 

[leggy]

I actually find psychology quite interesting

Don't get me wrong, I find anything psychology related very interesting. I'm just stereotyping every psychology student I have ever met .

I shouldn't but hey... I probably shouldn't drink eight metric tonnes of wine every weekend either.

 

[nath]

Actually - I think that's one of the few areas it's ok to stereotype. I mean come on, they are all fuckwits.

 

[mank!]

I'm a psychology student you fuckrags.