If it's broken...fix it!

Spades

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
33
I have been playing this game for about 2 years...ish. Over that time I have never actually got a character to level 50! Amazing I know, but as a result I have played alot of characters, and noticed the supposed balancing problems people complain of. I think they are quite minor but can understand why some people may think otherwise.

So, instead of making all these fancy expansions with new MLs and catacombs, why not fix the balancing and other problems the game already has? I can't speak for anyone else, but I would much rather have a solid, balanced game than one that is unbalanced with bells and whistles on it.

I do not actually think the game is bad and really enjoy it in its current state. I'm simply trying to present an argument as to maybe why many people left. I also feel that many of the issues with the game should have been sorted out along time ago (maybe just after SI came out or even before). I.E. Buff bots, balancing issues, server stability, gfx bugs, support.....etc. It's a bit late now but I think that is what really could of helped the game. Like i said tho, i am still loving the game as it is, just sick of all the whining threads and mythics ideas that are leading to no where.

Please don't flame, just trying to have an actual discussion for once :)
 

Cavex ElSaviour

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
212
unless every realm has exactly the same type of chars, ba;ancing is quiet impossible imho. No matter what you do, theres always somebody on the other side who feels left out.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
balance is entirely subjective and also very very finicky.. little changes to one thing can completely throw other things.
 

Spades

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
33
Yeah that's how I feel too. People are just comparing their chars with the other realms equivilent and seeing only the bad things. Then saying their chars need something extra or the other realm needs a nurf! However, there are some legitimate balancing issues I have seen. The majority of them have been fixed admitidly but there are still many other problems people are complaining about.

I feel sorry for Mythic and GOA tbh :)
 

Spades

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
33
True, which is why I am saying it may have been better to take time over these issues before steaming ahead and releaseing TOA and cat, maybe even SI.

In other words, admitting there are problems and taking time to fix them. Instead of releasing flashy new add ons, hoping people will forget about the problems.
 

Ballard

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
1,711
Nah, id rather have new stuff than time being taken over balance. As a whole things are very balanced considering. There are a few 'gimp' classes and a few OP ones sure but as a whole every class can compete. People that complain about casters are the ones with crap resists. I know as a caster most good tanks can wipe the floor with me and I can do the same to them on occasion. Its just situational. The balance issue is really between people that take the time to equip themselves properly and run in good setups versus those that dont.
 

Outlander

Part of the furniture
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
3,069
I say we only have 1 class for all 3 realms! and the only weapons we are allowed are wooden spoons!! total equality!! :clap:
 

Saggy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,237
Flimgoblin said:
balance is entirely subjective and also very very finicky.. little changes to one thing can completely throw other things.
True, but why is it like that? Could it be because Mythic have added tons of new stuff to "fix" the old problems but instead they have ended up with more and more problems that are impossible to undone (well, they are considering non-ToA/non-buffbot server :p)? Mythic's logic on "fixing" stuff has always been "by hitting your head with hammer you'll forget the pain in your leg" :S

"OK, this can't be right, it's way too easy to interupt casting, something has to be done here. Hmmm, OK, I slightly changed the code and things are a bit better now, lets change some more... OK, now this feels really good! Actually, coming to think about, roll back to where we started and lets see again. Hmmm, OK, instead of these changes we could add this little ability <Grapple>. OK, this is very gay but it does help a bit, add another ability <Bodyguard>. Haha, now this is stupid but it indeed does help casters with their casting. Ah well, see if boss is happy with this, I really can't be arsed to change the code again". :m00:
 

[HB]Jpeg

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
420
Spades said:
I have been playing this game for about 2 years...ish. Over that time I have never actually got a character to level 50! Amazing I know, but as a result I have played alot of characters, and noticed the supposed balancing problems people complain of. I think they are quite minor but can understand why some people may think otherwise.

So, instead of making all these fancy expansions with new MLs and catacombs, why not fix the balancing and other problems the game already has? I can't speak for anyone else, but I would much rather have a solid, balanced game than one that is unbalanced with bells and whistles on it.

I do not actually think the game is bad and really enjoy it in its current state. I'm simply trying to present an argument as to maybe why many people left. I also feel that many of the issues with the game should have been sorted out along time ago (maybe just after SI came out or even before). I.E. Buff bots, balancing issues, server stability, gfx bugs, support.....etc. It's a bit late now but I think that is what really could of helped the game. Like i said tho, i am still loving the game as it is, just sick of all the whining threads and mythics ideas that are leading to no where.

Please don't flame, just trying to have an actual discussion for once :)
simple answer to why people leave .... 2-3yrears of same game . and NEW games comming out. its obvious people are going to leave

as for buffbots . i agree it would be nice to see buffbots nerfed in some way (imo best way is to have range on buffs , so people at least have to run around with them on /stick to keep there buffs).... BUT with that said mythic/GOA make a LOT of extra money from bb's . hence they would be stupid to get rid of them... it is good business sense to not nerf them so people keep there bb accounts open. cos if bb got nerfed many whiners who cant wtf pwn anymore a unbuffed class or cant hit as hard as used to . will leave game and prolly more will leave game due to bb nerfs than leaving due to being unable to compete with bb' users.

as for balancing issues (i presume u mean class/population?) i think the underpopulated realm bonus's etc has done a LOT to help that . hib on pryd and excal have the underdog bonus' and they are DEFINATLY growing more as a realm (ignore dumbasses who say hib has better players. thats just a myth) . for class balances . yea sure 1 class will be stronger than another. and when totally wtf overpowered classes arrive that again is tto draw people either back to game (which it works from what i seen) or to bring new players to game with new classes/zones etc making the game a more enjoyable feature. but i presume by u saying u never had a lvl 50. means u play in bg's right? well in bg's its NOTHING like lvl50 rvr .. classes like BD/Vamp/Archers etc etc excel in bg's and do v well..... but in lvl50 rvr its a different matter. yes some will say bd's are uber solo in rvr . but some classes seem to have little problem killing them.. some classes on the other hand get there asses handed to them by a bd. take a shamen for example.... would you say they was overpowered ? i wouldnt... but. with that said me .. as a friar vs a shamen 1v1 if shamen played to a decent level i will get pwnd 95%+ of the time.... due to there pbae insta fart. shamen kiting and bolt/dot on me...in melee i will show him way home but due to desiease i am unable to get close to him . hence he pwns me (even lower lvl shamens can kill pure melee classes if played well) doesnt mean they are op'd :) (if u see my point).

server stability. i must admit sucks and for the money we pay goa IMO should make much more effort in making the servers stable. im playing pryd atm and the lag sucks big time. and tbh i think goa blaming open transit all the time is just bullshit.. been TO LONG of an exscuse now. maybe belieaved it 1st few times but not now (not my comp btw high spec with adsl)

gfx issues... i think this one is mostly down to your own personal computer ,, cos i v v rarely get any gfx glitches. and on a whole i am VERY impressed by the Cata combs gfx.

customer support? lol doesnt exist hardly. e&e do best they can . and i suposse to some extent gm's do also (nice to see gm's making a effort more lately compared to older ones who didnt do anything at all .but even then when i have looked for a gm i couldnt find one. and when i used rightnow last friday/sat i not heard back from them yet . more ingame support would be nice.....but i dont think it will get any better (i actually think will get worse when goa expand offices to do impertrator for mythic)


thats my tuppence anywyas :)
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,652
I would argue then Hib has better players, but only because they have overall been forced into better grouping tactics by their numerical disadvantage.

Give them zerg numbers and they soon revert to Alb dumbass tactics.


As for balance it is somewhat self levelling, uber chars like Boneys and Warlocks get ganked, it just pisses people off that a FG of them in BG for instance means everyone else just logs.

This may have been mentioned before but why Don't Mythic alllow a buffbot without having to run the game twice?
Just pay for another char and have a switch between the 2 on the same screen.
 

Oboy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Messages
860
better to fix the lag that is atm, abit frustrating playing with huge lag spikes every min now and then.
 

knighthood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
1,812
Cavex ElSaviour said:
unless every realm has exactly the same type of chars, ba;ancing is quiet impossible imho. No matter what you do, theres always somebody on the other side who feels left out.
Well kind of, there SHULD be a counter class for every class out there, they wouldnt all have to be the same ofc, but at least have some sort of way to make other anti-classes work harder. Basicly it shuld have been as was originally intended to be a Scisscors-Rock-Paper system. Tanks -> Stealther/Support. Casters -> Tanks. Stealthers -> Casters. But ofc as we all know these days its basicly Casters -> ALL. I know it sounds like adding in another whine at warlocks but. Classes like that even if they r getting nerfed soon, dont really have a counter class. A stealther can prolly kill a warlock but if hes buffed, and has insta dot/spell up kiss your ass goodbye. Same as the stupid range they have. That is NOT balance, its plain stupid. Vamps on the other hand are killable. Heavy tanks or Light Tanks can kill a vamp ive seen it done many a time. What it really needs is a wee nerf to caster dmg and a BIG nerf to caster spd to get t back on track imo. But i dont see it happening.
 

Thadius

FH is my second home
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
8,824
Just bring out a daoc 2

Set when Arthur was still alive sort of thing

Scrap bonedancers, animists, necros, bonedancers and all the other thigns that epople qq about

Use a format like OF for rvr
 

Thadius

FH is my second home
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
8,824
Oh yea and make Epic armour and the Barfog/Dragon/ Sidi drops the best stuff in game
 

Darksword

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
2,678
imo they need to rethink the whole hp scale, caster damage, caster speed, and abs etc. then they should rethink all teh classes and make it so that its more based on skill and luck really...

i.e. make it so its impossible to have EVERYTHING in a group, so you pick what you want, that group could be amazing and kill loads of other groups but then a group from another realm comes that has 1-2 chars that can counter your tanks so then u die, or counter you casters so you die or whatever so that theres more to think about and its impossible to have the perfect group.

like in alb its hard to get the perfect group? make each realm like that, there is no perfect group etc :D
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
Cavex ElSaviour said:
unless every realm has exactly the same type of chars, ba;ancing is quiet impossible imho. No matter what you do, theres always somebody on the other side who feels left out.
EXACTLY. cavex everything u type makes me orgasm. ive been saying this since daoc started. it CANNOT BE BALANCED, unles there is only 1 type of char, 1 level, 1 spell, and damage that does 0 dmg so no one dies. everyone is exactly the same. must all move at the same time etc.
 

Shafu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
224
It's true that you will never achieve complete balance, but on the other hand you should never stop trying either. I would love to see Mythic focus (more) on class balance. There are some classes/abilities that clearly needs a nerf, but more importantly there are also classes/spec-lines/abilities that could use a boost. It seems to me that Mythic are afraid of making changes, but imo they should see it as an opportunity to bring new life to the game. For example, the insta lifedrain on a four second re-use timer along with healing pets (in same spec line) is what makes the Bonedancer overpowered in 1on1. At the same time the Bonedancer has another spec line that is slightly below average, and a third spec-line that is pretty much useless. Why not nerf the overpowered one, and boost the other two. Add some new cool graphics just to spice things up and voila, you have yourself a more interesting and balanced class (rather than just a nerf).

This is where I would put in a lot of effort if I had any influence. And if it turned out I made a wrong decision, I would try again.
 

Bahumat

FH is my second home
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
16,788
why not wipe all the classes except warlocks....then we can all stand in a HUGE circle spamming our chambers on anyone who loses their timers.
 

Belomar

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
In its current incarnation and in my opinion, DAoC is as close to balanced as it ever was, perhaps with the exception of the patch just before ToA. This is from my perspective, however, which is that of FG versus FG combat, where all realms are equally capable of building powerful groups that can compete against the best opted groups of the enemy realms. In addition, when I say "balanced", I mean on a global scale, and not on a class basis; yes, there are classes who are overpowered and there are classes who are underpowered, but this does not affect the big picture (very much).

Furthermore, the introduction of ToA and NF has also led to a considerable diversification of the game, which can only be a good thing. Before, in pre-ToA OF, there was practically only one or two group setups that were viable for RvR, and toons were mostly cookie-cutter with similar equipment, RAs and specs. Now, in post-ToA NF, there is a wide array of viable group setups, specs, RAs, and templates, and they all interact in a rock-paper-scissors kind of way; casters > tanks, but light tanks > casters, and grapple + casters > light tanks, etc.
Darksword said:
like in alb its hard to get the perfect group? make each realm like that, there is no perfect group etc :D
There is no perfect group in post-ToA NF; there are a number of good group setups, but they will fare differently against different enemy group setups.
 

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