I-RvR and relics

[Chamie]

This rule obviously doesnt count for the retaded zerging roleplayers ;(

 

[Golena]

Relics are there to be taken - just a pity people have stopped trying to do it primetime when more people can join in the fun and seem to only go for pvp-style relic raids.

That's because relic raids in NF are dull boring affairs with no actual "fun".

You no longer need skill or tactics or speed, you simply need 20% more players than the enemy.

 

[Golena]

I think this particular quote deserves a two minute silence, while we try to regain our breath after a few minutes of hysteric laughter.

only 1 FG of albs + soloers ... hahahahahahahahahah...

So what time were you playing..

At about 12:30am when I stopped I hadn't seen more than 1fg of albs in the last 30 mins.. maybe I just kept missing them ofc.
There were plenty of people running about in duo's/trio's maybe but they were getting farmed easily whenever any of the numerous mid groups that rolled me turned up.

There certainly wasn't an alb force about that would of stopped the 4 fg's of mid casters had they actually tried to do something together.
Then the mids seemed to be farming quite a few rp's... so why should they bother right!

Face it.. rp's meant more to you than the relics.. the only reason your whining now if because with albs having the relics you can see your hourly RP's rates dropping. Back in OF when albs took a mid keep 100+ mids turned up fairly quickly to defend it.. yeah you won't get the same numbers these days, but if you had the same mentality nottmore would of been mids without too many problems. It's not numbers that's the issue. It's that you can't as a realm be bothered. I think that probably goes for all 3 realms atm tho.

 

[Bracken]

mean pve?

Yep

That's because relic raids in NF are dull boring affairs with no actual "fun".

You no longer need skill or tactics or speed, you simply need 20% more players than the enemy.

It's not that they aren't fun - it's more a case of taking far too long. Been on a number of individual keep takes that were fun, but you just can't drop 3 keeps and grab a relic in 1 evening. If they could find a way to make that happen (increasing siege damage or making it so you can have more than 3 on a wall so you can actually get inside quicker is one possibility) then it would make a difference.

 

[Fanguir]

You no longer need skill or tactics or speed, you simply need 20% more players than the enemy.[/QUOTE]


Alas this is the only post that has its bases in reality...the truth is in u

 

[Golena]

It's not that they aren't fun - it's more a case of taking far too long. Been on a number of individual keep takes that were fun, but you just can't drop 3 keeps and grab a relic in 1 evening.

I think it has to be faster than an entire evening. The old relic raids used to either be successful or fail within 2 hours. What that meant was the entire realm turned up for them, as it was a fairly short period of time. The main problem with the NF system is that once you've beaten back the relic force they just port straight back again, meaning defending against it is almost impossible.

As an example, in OF once you wiped the attacking force at the relic keep, you could normally get 2 or 3 keeps back before they reassembled the way the ports used to work. What that meant was nomally the raid fell apart. A good solid defence for 30 mins and you could remove the danger.

In NF once your 2 keeps down you tend to stay 2 keeps down for the duration of the evening, meaning if you kill the attackers on the 3rd keep, they are back attacking again 10 minutes later giving you no chance to clean up as it were. In fact the only way to defend is to have more numbers than them to zerg your own keeps back. Since people know that a defence is going to be an entire evenings work, after which you'll probably still not of driven them completely out, then people who wen't going to go rvr don't bother making the effort.
At the end of it what's left is a feeling that the nights rvr was just crap zerging, as opposed to any real fun being had. The old, get the PvE'ers out relic raids had something special about them.. nowdays it's just an excuse for people to log their caster alts and try and leech some rp's from the wall before the relic is lost.

 

[fettoken]

You no longer need skill or tactics or speed, you simply need 20% more players than the enemy.

Alas this is the only post that has its bases in reality...the truth is in u [/QUOTE]

Not true, you need a fire wiz with 25 % resist pierce, wild power 5, mom4 and dex4, aug acuity 3 ;D DD + bolt = WTFWIN!!

 

[Azathrim]

So what time were you playing..

At about 12:30am when I stopped I hadn't seen more than 1fg of albs in the last 30 mins.. maybe I just kept missing them ofc.
There were plenty of people running about in duo's/trio's maybe but they were getting farmed easily whenever any of the numerous mid groups that rolled me turned up.

That sunday I played from 19cet to 23cet... the alb zerg were immense. The usual caster zerg really, wizards, sorcs, cabalists and theurgists dropping anything that got in range of them (notice the incredible long range these toons have).

There were a mid zerg out too, which I estimate to be about 2/3 the size of the Alb zerg.

There certainly wasn't an alb force about that would of stopped the 4 fg's of mid casters had they actually tried to do something together.
Then the mids seemed to be farming quite a few rp's... so why should they bother right!

Yeah, the mids farmed some RP. From what I saw on doing /stats the albs farmed even more.

Face it.. rp's meant more to you than the relics.. the only reason your whining now if because with albs having the relics you can see your hourly RP's rates dropping.

No, having fun while playing means more than RP's and Relics.

I rarely run my mid toons in a group like yesterday, and to be perfectly frank it wasn't much fun.

Back in OF when albs took a mid keep 100+ mids turned up fairly quickly to defend it.. yeah you won't get the same numbers these days, but if you had the same mentality nottmore would of been mids without too many problems. It's not numbers that's the issue. It's that you can't as a realm be bothered. I think that probably goes for all 3 realms atm tho.

Suchs arrogance and ignorance you display here. As far as I have been able to gather from my Mid friends, Nottmore have been sieged constantly the last week or so, and repelled each and every time. Yet you come here in blissfull ignorance claiming that people couldn't be bothered? How dare you ...

 

[anioal]

Suchs arrogance and ignorance you display here. As far as I have been able to gather from my Mid friends, Nottmore have been sieged constantly the last week or so, and repelled each and every time. Yet you come here in blissfull ignorance claiming that people couldn't be bothered? How dare you ...

The truth is: mids cba

They rather farm the drop point (actually this seems to be the only purpose of mids that break nott port ), the slope and the woods at nottmoor than take and defend towers.

 

[eggy]

This rule obviously doesnt count for the retaded zerging roleplayers ;(

The irony is, you can't spell retard.

 

[MesS°]

This rule obviously doesnt count for the retaded zerging roleplayers ;(

Blame the retaded!

 

[Alexandrinus]

Mids didnt make any real attemp to supress Albs,they took 2 towers yesterday and that was only one FG.
If they would have at least 3 FG , with good coordination, they would have the ability to set Albs under pressure.
There are also no Hibs attacking Albland atm,they rather go farm the zerg...or get farmed from it.(but we didnt lost the relic's)

 

[Aran Thule]

I think it has to be faster than an entire evening. The old relic raids used to either be successful or fail within 2 hours.ect

Spot on, i did the first successful relic raid in new frontiers prydwen, it took about 14 hours, think we started about 1pm and finally managed to capture it around 3am.
Everyone was knackered, but it was an experiance and one i will always remember.
Since cluster its even harder due to the overwealming number of albions, might take 1 or 2 keeps but then you get bogged down and the momentium dies and raid fails.
I will only do primetime raids but it isnt easy and its a lot of work also given the time they take and clashing events i can understand why a lot of people dont bother any more.

 

[Dave J.]

I'm curious about one thing:

The players that dont like iRvR, such as Golena for an example, where do you go and rvr normally when the keepstatus is at Status Quo? And how much time to you spend doing just that?

Because as far as i've seen, a good evening theres perhaps 1200-1400~ people combined on cluster, and without iRvR theres tops 60 people (excluding the opted FG's) involved in rvr - 10 players are at or near their porting keep's bridge (brynja/dc/occassus), while about the same number are brave enough to take a boat into enemy lands.

And people, 60 players, or even if im that wrong, so lets say 120, that is TEN PERCENT of the total playerbase involved in the 'Endgame' of daoc. Me myself is just curious of what people actually do when they are logged in?

So basically, most players does not want to RvR when there's downtime (boats) to the battlefield, OR, because they know for sure they will not enjoy it (based on several things as templates, RR, specs..). Which brings us to the idea of iRvR.

iRvR often gets compared to fps-style of gaming, fast-paced with a bit of "nocare" attitude towards dying. While this might be true, is it wrong? Is it hurting the game? The NF frontier layout is not bad imo, but it is definately designed for a much larger playerbase then the 120 active players. I think you can view iRvR as a compressed mini-frontier: Think back to when NF came. I remember albs taking a keep in brefine the first day if im not mistaken, and the amount of albs and hibs involved in rvr was just.. wow. Deathspam was constant and did hardly stop during the first week. Then slowly it calmed a bit and you could find alot of diversity in the pvp-style in hib frontier. I think the same applies to the iRvR areas (not the late Mid situation tho, as that frontier is really really bad designed), you must endure the first few days of caster-waves, but when people are getting confortable i think theres a place for everyone.

This would be fine and all. if it werent for one thing, The Relics. I can understand that many people playing daoc feel that Relics is still an important ingredient of daoc, and should be given an effort to keep safe. So there's really only one dilemma to choose side in - safe relics, or more action.

More action? But it's fine the way it is? Don't fool yourselves. Daoc might be very much alive at this point, but the will to actually play, the thrill, the excitement, is diminishing among all the players at this very moment. Daoc wont survive in a state that satisfy all playstyles for very much longer unless the community helps to support them all.

I remember excalibur during the most active era had 2500 players online during the evenings, but still, its not only the actual population that counts. As an example, after the cluster, there were (EVERY DAY) about 6-7-8 FGs from each realm! roaming agramon for about a month. Now theres 2-3 on a _good_ day. 6-7 weeks after Glastonbury was opened, at times, there were more then _250_ enemies in Agramon alone.

This is how cluster could look like. But it doesnt. So is it because of op classes? Partly. Much higher RR opponents? Partly. But the main reason is this and only this: We are getting older. The playerbase today, is consisting of almost the same people as 3 years ago, except that half the people have quit. They have gotten jobs, familys, other things in their life. So for us that are still here; we really DO need to respect our enemies, in order to keep this server alive for as long as possible. As of now, the most of the actual fighting is taking place on Freddyshouse, or on irc

My thoughts at least.

 

[anioal]

Mids didnt make any real attemp to supress Albs,they took 2 towers yesterday and that was only one FG.
If they would have at least 3 FG , with good coordination, they would have the ability to set Albs under pressure.

heh, mids had 3 fg... camping the drop off at nottmoor soon after the nott t3 and t4 were taken

 

[Wild]

lets let mid have notts back and go get the hibs relics ? plzzzzz :touch:

 

[Soulja_IA_]

lets let mid have notts back and go get the hibs relics ? plzzzzz :touch:

Best bet is to set you Alarm Clock only way you ever get to take Hib Relics you couldn't manage it any other way.

Soulja

 

[Wild]

Best bet is to set you Alarm Clock only way you ever get to take Hib Relics you couldn't manage it any other way.

Soulja

roger that 5am ok with ya ?

 

[charmangle]

Damn good post well worth keeping in mind...

:worthy:

My thoughts at least.

Well, my hats off to ya mate. A damn good post with alot of nice points.

The shortsightedness of: I pay, I play as I want! Only helps the game disappear faster. No set of rules are complete, there will always be holes to exploit and make life miserable for others. But in the end both in a game and in society you, yourself will be one of those that suffer from the effects of overexplotation of kind rules. Make no mistake about it. Ofc no one but goa can enforce rules on you, but atleast try to consider that your sheap 1 time laugh might cost the game a longtime player, and eventually you might be standing there alone laughing or atleast ruin the game for people you consider your friends (even your own realm wount like it when they are left as the only ones still playing), if you yourself dont care about it.

Basically, when playing, try to have fun, but atleast stop for 1 second to consider if you could have fun without intentionally ruin the game for others.

Well my 5 cents worth anyway!
/Charmangle

 

[Flimgoblin]

a lot of people find repetitive running back and forth from the same keep in the same area dull and uninteresting.

So why exactly should those people stop playing the game (e.g. stop taking relics, stop taking towers/keeps) just for _your_ enjoyment of IRvR?

The shortsightedness of: I pay, I play as I want!

 

[Corran]

:worthy:

Well, my hats off to ya mate. A damn good post with alot of nice points.

The shortsightedness of: I pay, I play as I want! Only helps the game disappear faster. No set of rules are complete, there will always be holes to exploit and make life miserable for others. But in the end both in a game and in society you, yourself will be one of those that suffer from the effects of overexplotation of kind rules. Make no mistake about it. Ofc no one but goa can enforce rules on you, but atleast try to consider that your sheap 1 time laugh might cost the game a longtime player, and eventually you might be standing there alone laughing or atleast ruin the game for people you consider your friends (even your own realm wount like it when they are left as the only ones still playing), if you yourself dont care about it.

Basically, when playing, try to have fun, but atleast stop for 1 second to consider if you could have fun without intentionally ruin the game for others.

Well my 5 cents worth anyway!
/Charmangle

Warlocks ruin the game just by logging in, wish they would consider to stop intentionally ruining my fun by doing so!

What fun for you aint for others. What fun for others aint fun for you. There will always be sections that get pissed of by someone elses actions and you cant accomodate all and aint worth the time worrying about it mostly.

 

[Dave J.]

a lot of people find repetitive running back and forth from the same keep in the same area dull and uninteresting.

So why exactly should those people stop playing the game (e.g. stop taking relics, stop taking towers/keeps) just for _your_ enjoyment of IRvR?

Noone forces you to run back and forth, there are other options with iRvR. But if i find taking boats to the same bridges over and over dull, theres no alternative. Sure i can go visit some other place in the frontiers, but there will not be anything there for me to fight.

I'm just wondering, without any hostility, the people that opposes iRvR, where do you rvr normally, and how often?

 

[Corran]

Noone forces you to run back and forth, there are other options with iRvR. But if i find taking boats to the same bridges over and over dull, theres no alternative. Sure i can go visit some other place in the frontiers, but there will not be anything there for me to fight.

I'm just wondering, without any hostility, the people that opposes iRvR, where do you rvr normally, and how often?

I rvr in hw,odins andsometimes in emain also, I 8vs8 and solo, and mini group etc. Not strictly against Irvr as it is piss easy rp's both solo and grouped, just it is dull that unless you in an opted fg you have to keep to the zerg area most the time if you go to that zone. If you dont you 1) get zerged or 2) get slaughtered by opted fg

 

[Golena]

Suchs arrogance and ignorance you display here. As far as I have been able to gather from my Mid friends, Nottmore have been sieged constantly the last week or so, and repelled each and every time. Yet you come here in blissfull ignorance claiming that people couldn't be bothered? How dare you ...

No again your missing my point completely.
Yes mids have tried seiging nottmore, but only a fairly small percentage of them! Do /who all next time your logged on. Then go look at the percentage of them heading out to the keep with trebs.
In the old OF days you'd probably find that number to be about 40% maybe more, now I think you'd be lucky if it was 5%. If 80% of the mids online came and tried to take nott back, it would be in mid hands in minutes. It's not a lack of numbers at all, it's that 95% of the realm don't want to be bothered.

Stop taking everything i'm saying as a personal attack against your personal efforts. Saying the realm can't be bothered is different to saying you and your 5 mates didn't give it a good shot. People in general can't be bothered, in the same way the world can't be bothered to end world hunger because we are too busy doing other stuff in our lives.. that doesn't mean there's not several thousand people out in africa at the moment putting 110% into it.

 

[Golena]

I'm curious about one thing:

The players that dont like iRvR, such as Golena for an example, where do you go and rvr normally when the keepstatus is at Status Quo? And how much time to you spend doing just that?

In not opposed directly to irvr as such.

The problem with Mid irvr is there's one and only one route between the 2 keeps, which means all that happens is people zerg up and down that small stretch. Mid casters normally camp the tower there bolting stuff getting near until albs get up a big enough zerg to wipe them out, then the whole process starts off again.

Last night the best fights we got were in alb.. eventually we moved to mid and sure our RP per hour probably went up abit but we spent it just blindly zerging with another truckload of albs, no where near as much fun.

I'd much rather have a few good fights per night and earn a few rp's than lots of bad ones and earn lots. Just fix the really crappy design of NF tho, whoever designed it clearly had no idea what he was doing

 

[charmangle]

Eh talk about missing the point all together...

Warlocks ruin the game just by logging in, wish they would consider to stop intentionally ruining my fun by doing so!

What fun for you aint for others. What fun for others aint fun for you. There will always be sections that get pissed of by someone elses actions and you cant accomodate all and aint worth the time worrying about it mostly.

You really dont see the difference between playing chars that is in the game rather than playing in a for others destructive way ?

Please tell me you can see the differance ? Please, please, please! If not there just isnt any hope for Daoc or any other game where that view rains, I think!:/ (and I do not say that to be rude to you, just an observation on how different views can be)

/Charmangle

ps. Well you cant accomodate all but atleast you can try to play with some sort of feeling for how the other side feels...well atleast thats my view...and I hope there are others that share that view...ds

 

[Corran]

You really dont see the difference between playing chars that is in the game rather than playing in a for others destructive way ?

Please tell me you can see the differance ? Please, please, please! If not there just isnt any hope for Daoc or any other game where that view rains, I think!:/ (and I do not say that to be rude to you, just an observation on how different views can be)

/Charmangle

ps. Well you cant accomodate all but atleast you can try to play with some sort of feeling for how the other side feels...well atleast thats my view...and I hope there are others that share that view...ds

I know what you mean, but that simply was a sarcastic reply to get across the point that no matter what you do, even if it is just simply playing a lame class you could be pissing of a portion of the population.

Zergs ruining it for opted groups, Opted groups ruin it for the low RR pugs, pugs ruining it for the mini groups, most groups wuin it for solo's, most solo's ruin it for opted.

Could basically just go through every play style and show that they ruin it for at least 2 different sections of the RvR population playstyles. And there lies the problem. No one is right and no one is wrong, they are merely different views of the same arguement.That arguement being "How should RvR be played"

There will never be an answer to this until the servers are switched off and the answer is "There should be no RvR as that the only way that all population will get on."

 

[Raven]

irvr give everyone something to do, the zergers can zerg their hearts out against each other, the full groups can try and farm the zergs or have fg fights. the soloers can find a quite place to fight, atm its shit, full groups camping every bridge and drop off point, adding on everything, its pretty boring for all.

 

[Golena]

irvr give everyone something to do, the zergers can zerg their hearts out against each other, the full groups can try and farm the zergs or have fg fights. the soloers can find a quite place to fight, atm its shit, full groups camping every bridge and drop off point, adding on everything, its pretty boring for all.

When I want to duo with my mate where do I go?

For me this is where the biggest problem lies, I don't want to zerg around in a group of 50 albs, but the only people anywhere else are soloers which I feel guilty fighting against with 2 of us.
At least before all the pre-arranged (not out of game ofc) dueling crap came in you had a change to run into 2 or 3 of the enemy in the same area and you could have a decent fight..

Without irvr you also get smaller groups out to fight, as the zerg tends to split up a little bit.

 

[Sarumann]

lets let mid have notts back and go get the hibs relics ? plzzzzz :touch:

Pffft never would do it with my amazing chanter defending them ill kill u all solo