I challenge YOU! yes u Dear Mr or Ms ALbion

[Andrilyn]

still cant work out why peeps say shrooms are overpowered they hit for 80 to 120 damage ish and die to any nuke.

I found i spent more mana tonight moving my dd storm around and it did loads more damage than shrooms

Well Awarkle you know an animist can cast a max of 15 shrooms right who do an avarage of 100 damage per nuke, times 15 it's a 1500 nuke on any person who walks in range of the stacked turrets.
Now when facing Hibs they have around 3-5 (or more) animists per keep defense meaning around 7500 damage if your the first person to walk into the range of their turrets.. that's not low damage to me.

Also shrooms might die to 1 or 2 AE spells but inside a keep shrooms are 99% untargetable/unkillable, you might think shrooms that are in the keep yard are easy to get rid off but they are not (well most of the time they are not) as you get "Target is not in view!" all the time and of course at any keep fight versus hibs you see shrooms in windows which is the same situation as above.

Good thing Albs get zombie rez in Catacombs which makes shrooms rather useless in keep defense but for mids it will still be near to impossible to take a Hib keep with shrooms placed on spots where they are basically unkillable.

 

[Roadie]

1.Shrooms interupt! when people try and hurt you they cant cast their spells cos they are taking shroom dmg :< (recently we attacked a hib force attacking a tower and i was able to cast 3 spells the whole fight due to shroom interupts)

2.Alot of shrooms doing 120 dmg = insta death and even if there arnt that many when your in a siege enviroment healers have trouble healing and you dont have a healer then 120dmg will eventualy kill you.

3.You need ae nukes to deal with them effectivly, and only alb classes to have ae nukes are wizzis (in alb) who arnt all that common rly runecarvers (not that common either) and pb SM's landing pbae on shrooms isnt fun. Also there are lots of them and after the 1st nuke your interupted etc.... If you dont have a wiz then you need 2 single nuke them with hibs still there nuking you.

4.luris can hide in them


They arnt that astounding good but neither other realm has anything quite like them and they are a pretty big inconveniance for most classes + groups.

 

[Ilum]

We could get you artifacts however if we only use 3-4 people on each encounter it kinda limits what artis you can actually get. Don't worry we will get you belt of the moon/sun and dreamsphere for you easy.

The useful artifacts you cant do with 3-4 people is counted on 1 hand imo

 

[Fafnir]

Mythic can start with making all reaver into thanes and thanes into reavers. would be fun to see.

 

[Yma]

Hihihihi ... as if you convince albs to have a career in midgard without their beloved necros, mincer+sallie and theurgs in ToA, and high RR guilds to stick on in frontier. They may be good or bad players, I don't know - as good as mids for sure - but they aren't fools.

 

[bashir]

The useful artifacts you cant do with 3-4 people is counted on 1 hand imo

Soz we dont have mincer/petspamming/etc to easy do them encounters.

 

[willowywicca]

Soz we dont have mincer/petspamming/etc to easy do them encounters.

You can focus most encounter, same as everyone else tho.. as ilum said, there really aren't many encounters with useful artifacts that you can't do without 3-4 people.. (erinys you can't do for example) Can you actually name which ones you can't do? Oh and before you whine, atleast check the thread in mid/excal about how to focus encounters, it describes how nearly every encounter can be focused by mids.

 

[Brite]

Maybe if you stopped camping bled bridge...you could take some keeps? Taken today when mids did the whole 15vs3butitsonlyalbsthatzerg thing.

lets all go to alb instead and get zerged 4 to 1 on a keep YEYEYE!

 

[willowywicca]

[EDIT] and ohw... I didn't wanna get involved in the whines before this, but I agree 100% with cadelin. Wilowywicka... warriors, berserkers and savages aren't that usefull anymore here in new frontiers, except for defence at the lord. They just get nuked to death before they can approach the enemy (well most of the time anyway)

Erm, how are they any less useful than the equivalent hib/alb tanks tho? Cadelin and other hibs whine that mid classes have less zerg utility than alb/hib classes. You say warriors savages berserkers are bad in new frontiers except at the lord. Fine, I won't dispute that point. But tell me how they are any *worse* than the other realms tanks? Because, unless you can show how they perform worse than the other realms (roughly) equivalent classes, that is not a valid explanation for mids being worse off than any other realm in NF

 

[Funkybunny]

i took 3000 dmg within 1 second on bolg on excal the other night from shrooms who all suddenly noticed me.. instadeath :/

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

lets all go to alb instead and get zerged 4 to 1 on a keep YEYEYE!

Shit ur right - i mean the 2.5fg i found at brynja at 11am this morning is helping you get the relics back ofc.... "Its too difficult so i wont try" i think about sums up this thread.

 

[bigchief]

Soz we dont have mincer/petspamming/etc to easy do them encounters.

Had a chat with Werewulf on irc last night, he basically claimed mids *cannot* kill 6.10 7.10 err 8.10 9.10 and ml10 without a zerg as they dont have a pet spammed.

I dont know how many level 40's are on mid/pryd's ML raids these days but ive seen 1fg albs do 6.10, 3fg do 7.10, 2fg do 8.10, 2fg do 9.10 and 2fg do ml10 ... without using our clearly overpowered minstrels and theurgists and necros and anything else you think we *need* to do ml's that you dont have

If you cant do pve encounters I seriously suggest perhaps taking some useful classes instead of 20 hunters, 5sb's 10bd's and a couple of sm's which looking at the current active low rr bled campers suggests is the case.

 

[Yma]

I'm sure albs can do draco with 2fg without using petspam. Martians told me so ... they added something about Elvis, but I cba listening.

And yeah, Talos with 2fgs too, of course. That was when I soloed Gjalpinulva with my sb.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

And roadie is completely right - do the maths on the hps damage per full set of shrooms per animist.

On the inner of a keep shrooms can easily be placed so u come into LoS of almost all of them immediately...
Lets call it 90 damage per shroom for starts
1 animist = 90*15 = 1350
show me a cleric that can deal with anything above this amount for a sustained period and i'll marry them.
2 animists = 90*30 = 2700
3 animists = 90*45 = 4050
4 animists = 90*60 = 5400
5 animists = 90*75 = 6750

Ofc ur unlikely to get perfect placement of all but you get the idea.Main advantage they have over theurgists in inner keep warfare is ofc that theurgist pets have to be cast at a target.

 

[leviathane]

except 1 small problem is animsts can have 75 shrooms in an area they chnaged that a few patchs ago.

 

[bigchief]

I'm sure albs can do draco with 2fg without using petspam. Martians told me so ... they added something about Elvis, but I cba listening.

And yeah, Talos with 2fgs too, of course. That was when I soloed Gjalpinulva with my sb.

Just because you have never done it, dont assume others havnt. I didnt say it was either quick or with a bunch of random tards. Draco took 90mins alone etc, but it was still done. So whining it cannot be done with 40 people is total, complete and utter bollocks.

 

[Yma]

What's wrong ? Don't assume my SB can't solo Gjalpinulva just because you have never done it.

 

[leviathane]

actually have seen him solo quite a few times, get your facts right boy.

 

[leviathane]

and the fact that albs have pallys twisting means pve is quite easy with small groups who know what they're doing.

 

[Cadelin]

Not to be disingenuous or sarcastic, but I genuinely don't know why mids say this (not just you but others have too). I agree you have nothing to compare with an animist, and no single class that has zerg killing abilities like a reaver.. but to say most mid classes in general aren't zerg friendly.. I don't really get it, can you (or some other mid) please explain why alb/hib classes are more zerg friendly than mids' classes?

I didn't think I explained it terribly well the first time so I will try again.

1)The zerg is made up of alot of casual players.

I'll define a casual player as anyone who has a maximum of 1 fully ML and ToA'ed char. I fall into this category, my main is a warrior with decent artis like malice, SoM, CB and some nice rare drops, he also has ML. My second char a sm has a good but non arti SC suit and is ML2.

2) If you look at mid we have 5 vikings (melee not as useful) and 5 non-vikings (useful), excluding stealthers.
Hib has 4 not as useful tanks (that includes the VW!) and 7 useful casters/healer types. Not including stealthers.
Alb has 4 tanks and 7 non tanks. Not including stealthers.

Now couple this with the fact mids are seen as the melee realm means that our zerg would contain more melee guys. The problem comes when you notice that this isn't the case. I am almost forced to rvr with my weaker char. Alot of people can fall into this category and so our zerg is weaker.


I thought my second point about player utility was more obvious. We lack healers and alot of people will never roll a char where you can't do any damage! Maybe albs are forcing themselves to compete by all rolling those so boring to play sorcs etc
Also a hib caster can happy kill somebody on a battlements if they are a little stupid. Stun, then nuke nuke nuke. For mids to do this we need 2 chars. Not a complaint if we work together but this is a random zerg we are talking about!

Pet spammers are also much more powerful against less experienced players. Sure we shouldn't die to a pet spammer if we all concentrate but if somebody is slightly afk we can end up with a dead mid and more work for our healers.

 

[Tuorin]

I didn't think I explained it terribly well the first time so I will try again.

1)The zerg is made up of alot of casual players.

Might the other realms be made up of casual players and non ML people?

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Erm, how are they any less useful than the equivalent hib/alb tanks tho? Cadelin and other hibs whine that mid classes have less zerg utility than alb/hib classes. You say warriors savages berserkers are bad in new frontiers except at the lord. Fine, I won't dispute that point. But tell me how they are any *worse* than the other realms tanks? Because, unless you can show how they perform worse than the other realms (roughly) equivalent classes, that is not a valid explanation for mids being worse off than any other realm in NF

Couldn't say it any better myself, so here goes

2) If you look at mid we have 5 vikings (melee not as useful) and 5 non-vikings (useful), excluding stealthers.
Hib has 4 not as useful tanks (that includes the VW!) and 7 useful casters/healer types. Not including stealthers.
Alb has 4 tanks and 7 non tanks. Not including stealthers.

Now couple this with the fact mids are seen as the melee realm means that our zerg would contain more melee guys. The problem comes when you notice that this isn't the case. I am almost forced to rvr with my weaker char. Alot of people can fall into this category and so our zerg is weaker.

 

[TiwiS]

yea alb zerg usually consists of 50 rr8 sorcs + reavers, all ml10 ofc


no seriously now, what tools do you need to kill a zerg: crowd control and dmg.

1) I think midgard has by far the best close combat crowd control, insta stun and insta mez. we're not talking open field here where the sorc rules supreme,we're talking about close combat keep warefare.
i've seen this trick used so many times on us in OF in keep warefare and everytime it made us cry like hell. (insta stun + pbaoe = wtfpwned albs)

2) dmg, you have 3 casters in your realm Bonedancer, Runemaster, Spiritmaster. who have pretty much the same utility and dmg delves as alb and hib but spread over less classes.
you have some strong tanks in your realm, most of which beat the living shit out of my cloth armor.


if you don't have the above there is one thing that will ALWAYS kill a zerg: "The gank group add"

unless you're severly outnumbered a high rr group will turn a zerg fight around almost instantly. midgard has a couple of good high rr groups.
now i can imagine they like to roam more then they like to zerg, but maybe it's a good idea to keep in touch with them during the evening so that whenever you need a hand they can come give you the extra punch to beat that zerg.
They want rps too you now, and nothing beats the rps of a good zergfarm.

if there is one disadvantage i'd certainly give you though it's the lack of relics.
relics are overpowered, i'll be glad to admit this. midgard was almost unstoppable at the end of OF when they had the power relics. same goes for albion now.
if you want any chance of competing: grab str or power relics.
i think the last few weeks albs have tried to take keeps from hib almost every day to get those str relics, and we won't stop untill we have all 6 at home.
i guess you could use some strong leaders that can unite your realm.

 

[Straef]

lets all go to alb instead and get zerged 4 to 1 on a keep YEYEYE!

How are you gonna get killed 4 to 1 if you don't solo? x<

 

[TiwiS]

How are you gonna get killed 4 to 1 if you don't solo? x<

well brite solos now you see, cause bd pretty much kills all 1vs1 solo





well all accept a firewiz at bolt range

 

[remi]

everytime an albzerg is on a liddul tower they camp out of range and ice petting down door.

takes 15mins, but it gets the job done, mids equal? take down oil, hit door, die to reaver xD

 

[TiwiS]

everytime an albzerg is on a liddul tower they camp out of range and ice petting down door.

takes 15mins, but it gets the job done, mids equal? take down oil, hit door, die to reaver xD

yea takes 15 minst to get a greencon tower down

plus i think the ice pets are in range of aoe nukes, so you might be able to try that.




reavers is op though... now FZ more into the keep like lcea mentionned in the other thread, saves us both some time so we can go pve again!

 

[remi]

yea takes 15 minst to get a greencon tower down

plus i think the ice pets are in range of aoe nukes, so you might be able to try that.




reavers is op though... now FZ more into the keep like lcea mentionned in the other thread, saves us both some time so we can go pve again!

while ae nukeing the pets you die to random wizzy or wtever.

ice pets shouldnt do dmg to door in first place.

 

[TiwiS]

while ae nukeing the pets you die to random wizzy or wtever.

ice pets shouldnt do dmg to door in first place.

and random wizzy dies to random hunter \o/

do you have any idea how hard it is to pick off a caster on bm's when there are more then 4 hunters on the bms?

 

[raid]

everytime an albzerg is on a liddul tower they camp out of range and ice petting down door.

takes 15mins, but it gets the job done, mids equal? take down oil, hit door, die to reaver xD

while ae nukeing the pets you die to random wizzy or wtever.

ice pets shouldnt do dmg to door in first place.

aye, first albzerg camps far out of range but if you try to do a single ae nuke suddenly all the wizs teleport inside the range

ice pets need 1 interrupt on em and they go melee the door..hello oil