ArrrImmaPir8!
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- May 13, 2004
- Messages
- 133
I'm very confused about why so many people are so optimistic about hydrogen being the new hot shit of the energy indsutry. Yes, there are some very cheap and efficient fuel cells out there which convert hydrogen (NOT WATER) into electricity, but from what I hear, actual hydrogen just isn't that plentiful a material on earth.
Oh yes, there are astronomic amounts of it in water, but like I said, you don't put water in a fuel cell, you need to feed it hydrogen. In order to extract hydrogen from water, you need to spend power. The concept of "hydrogen powerplants" (as seen in Sim City 4
) seems utterly ridiculouys to me since another powerplant somewhere else would have to make the hydrogen to begin with. It would probably be much cheaper to just send the power over wires to its destination.
Now, having said that this doesn't mean fuel cells are completely uselss since its still a way of storing electricity from a powerplant into something portable which can be used to fuel cars, buses airplanes or cellphones. My problem with this is that batteries already to this job. Why is it that all these firms investing in hydrogen aren't facing the fact that hydrogen fuel is essentially a glorified battery?
So what I would really like to know is just how hydrogen stacks up next to some modern batteries (i find my latop's lithium ion battery very impressive for instance) . Batteries may be much more expensive to produce then hydrogen, but they are infinitley rechargable (the new ones anyway) and far more portable then hydrogen which needs to be stored in heavy and expensive tanks (since hydrogen is relatively volatile). Further, we already have an electricity infrastructure, we still need to build one for hydrogen. Not to mention that with stuff like "surface charges" which only need to be in the general vincinity of the device you are trying to charge up, batteries provide yet more flexibility and utility.
So as I see it:
- The setup cost to enable a device to work with hydrogen is cheaper (fuel cells are cheaper then batteries)
- Hydrogen is inexhaustable (it might be that some of the wierd elements in batteries will become scarce should demand increase drastically)
However:
- Hydrogen and batteries BOTH rely on other power sources to work
- Both hydrogen and batteries do not emit pollutants during use (though I admit that disposing of batteries can be a problem)
And more importantly:
- Batteries are more portable then hydrogen
- Batteries are less volatile then hydrogen in a "normal" enviornment
- Batteries are far cheaper to charge (they just need a wallsocket which you already have in your home)
- Hydrogen distribution will take a long time and a fair amount of money to be practical
But here are a few specific points I'm not familiar with:
- How much energy can be extracted from a tank of hydrogen the same volume as the best modern battery ?
- How efficient is charging a bettery vs. extracting hydrogen out of water?
Something I left out of the above are alternate ways of producing hydrogen (ie. other then electrolysis of water). The most promising I know of is that lady who got bacteria to create hydrogen from just water and sunlight. Given that bacteria will mutiply more or less by themselves this sounds pretty cool. I still don't think its actually viable however, since the hydrogen thes bacterias produce still needs to be collected somehow. So while setting up a giant smelly pond which makes enough electricity to power a small city sounds viable, putting a giant hydrogen collecting roof over it doesn't.
So - what do you think? Perhaps you can explain to me, why hydrogen is the way of the future and not batteries.
Oh yes, there are astronomic amounts of it in water, but like I said, you don't put water in a fuel cell, you need to feed it hydrogen. In order to extract hydrogen from water, you need to spend power. The concept of "hydrogen powerplants" (as seen in Sim City 4
) seems utterly ridiculouys to me since another powerplant somewhere else would have to make the hydrogen to begin with. It would probably be much cheaper to just send the power over wires to its destination.Now, having said that this doesn't mean fuel cells are completely uselss since its still a way of storing electricity from a powerplant into something portable which can be used to fuel cars, buses airplanes or cellphones. My problem with this is that batteries already to this job. Why is it that all these firms investing in hydrogen aren't facing the fact that hydrogen fuel is essentially a glorified battery?
So what I would really like to know is just how hydrogen stacks up next to some modern batteries (i find my latop's lithium ion battery very impressive for instance) . Batteries may be much more expensive to produce then hydrogen, but they are infinitley rechargable (the new ones anyway) and far more portable then hydrogen which needs to be stored in heavy and expensive tanks (since hydrogen is relatively volatile). Further, we already have an electricity infrastructure, we still need to build one for hydrogen. Not to mention that with stuff like "surface charges" which only need to be in the general vincinity of the device you are trying to charge up, batteries provide yet more flexibility and utility.
So as I see it:
- The setup cost to enable a device to work with hydrogen is cheaper (fuel cells are cheaper then batteries)
- Hydrogen is inexhaustable (it might be that some of the wierd elements in batteries will become scarce should demand increase drastically)
However:
- Hydrogen and batteries BOTH rely on other power sources to work
- Both hydrogen and batteries do not emit pollutants during use (though I admit that disposing of batteries can be a problem)
And more importantly:
- Batteries are more portable then hydrogen
- Batteries are less volatile then hydrogen in a "normal" enviornment
- Batteries are far cheaper to charge (they just need a wallsocket which you already have in your home)
- Hydrogen distribution will take a long time and a fair amount of money to be practical
But here are a few specific points I'm not familiar with:
- How much energy can be extracted from a tank of hydrogen the same volume as the best modern battery ?
- How efficient is charging a bettery vs. extracting hydrogen out of water?
Something I left out of the above are alternate ways of producing hydrogen (ie. other then electrolysis of water). The most promising I know of is that lady who got bacteria to create hydrogen from just water and sunlight. Given that bacteria will mutiply more or less by themselves this sounds pretty cool. I still don't think its actually viable however, since the hydrogen thes bacterias produce still needs to be collected somehow. So while setting up a giant smelly pond which makes enough electricity to power a small city sounds viable, putting a giant hydrogen collecting roof over it doesn't.
So - what do you think? Perhaps you can explain to me, why hydrogen is the way of the future and not batteries.
