Hunters and Malice axe.

[Basic_X]

Now. im not sure it has been discussed mutch. but as far as i can see. Hunters are the only stealther class that cant activate or use malice axe. and everytime i meet some stealther. i can be sure that he got malice to debuff me with.
now, im no expert in archering or at hunters (rr3 mkay) but i feel it a little "unfair" that hunters cant get malice axe (gif malice spear tbh!).
Am i totaly lost on the subjet? will it make hunters OP? or would it just be fair since hunters are the only stealthers without it?.
Is this a whine? Nope
Is this a suggestion to GMs? nope
Then what is this? a simple question what the comunity thinks about it? should Hunters get malice? or should they stay as they are?


Discuss.


(and no. i didnt learn grammar at school. i was sleeping )

 

[Himse]

Now. im not sure it has been discussed mutch. but as far as i can see. Hunters are the only stealther class that cant activate or use malice axe. and everytime i meet some stealther. i can be sure that he got malice to debuff me with.
now, im no expert in archering or at hunters (rr3 mkay) but i feel it a little "unfair" that hunters cant get malice axe (gif malice spear tbh!).
Am i totaly lost on the subjet? will it make hunters OP? or would it just be fair since hunters are the only stealthers without it?.
Is this a whine? Nope
Is this a suggestion to GMs? nope
Then what is this? a simple question what the comunity thinks about it? should Hunters get malice? or should they stay as they are?


Discuss.


(and no. i didnt learn grammar at school. i was sleeping )

i agree, Malice spear would be nice.

 

[censi]

yer give hunters malice. that way every single guy who plays a stealther can use malice.

that malice proc needs nerfing its like silly.

agree though its a bit unfair u cant get access to it as a hunter but like hunter has been getting boost after boost patch after patch, they gotta draw the line somewhere.

 

[Basic_X]

cant armsmenn use malice pole? or was it battler only?

 

[Ctuchik]

cant armsmenn use malice pole? or was it battler only?

yeah i think they can. atleast this thread implies it..

http://daoc.catacombs.com/forum.cfm?ThreadKey=10841&DefMessage=1332579&forum=5

 

[Aiteal]

I wish hunters did use Malice
PD3 and BoS incombat 10% resist buff and 29% elf slash resists with hib RF armour means they would hit me for feck all squared

Scariest hunters for me are they ones that use BoS spear and bow combo.

There's nothing wrong with hunters outside of being slaves to the rng at times
7 sec rear stun with a nice growth rate makes them the best archer partner for a scaredy cat assassin that runs imho

 

[Basic_X]

I wish hunters did use Malice
PD3 and BoS incombat 10% resist buff and 29% elf slash resists with hib RF armour means they would hit me for feck all squared

Scariest hunters for me are they ones that use BoS spear and bow combo.

There's nothing wrong with hunters outside of being slaves to the rng at times
7 sec rear stun with a nice growth rate makes them the best archer partner for a scaredy cat assassin that runs imho

Yea that might be. and BoS spears are ok. but look at what i have to counter? 3 dual wield classes and a sheildclass (well ok. we got mincers aswell. but they normaly never go alone).
Im solo (since no one feel like grouping little gimp me) and i aint that active on him. but lets say i meet a assasin (ok slash infil using DoT and desease envenoms - DoT,Desease, malice proc (tend to proc at least once pr fight) aswell as the odd poisonspike. what can i counter with? a 2h spear and a pet (well im not melee orientated. but most hunters dont got got that much fluff to counter with). and if i purge dot-desease. the malice proc will debuff me annyway. and i cant counter it.
just getting malice as a spear option would help alot. as we are the only stealth class that dont got some kinda "debuff" as far as i know at least.

 

[Aiteal]

Yea that might be. and BoS spears are ok. but look at what i have to counter? 3 dual wield classes and a sheildclass (well ok. we got mincers aswell. but they normaly never go alone).
Im solo (since no one feel like grouping little gimp me) and i aint that active on him. but lets say i meet a assasin (ok slash infil using DoT and desease envenoms - DoT,Desease, malice proc (tend to proc at least once pr fight) aswell as the odd poisonspike. what can i counter with? a 2h spear and a pet (well im not melee orientated. but most hunters dont got got that much fluff to counter with). and if i purge dot-desease. the malice proc will debuff me annyway. and i cant counter it.
just getting malice as a spear option would help alot. as we are the only stealth class that dont got some kinda "debuff" as far as i know at least.

Dont get me wrong
I'm all for hunters getting Malice, I would love to face physical slash damage 24/7

I'm in agreement with Censi
Malice proc needs a fat nerf
It procs too much and debuffs for too much
There really isnt any other proc in the game that comes close to malice

 

[Kaun_IA]

well if they dont want to make spear malice.. make it sword weapon at least

 

[Agrigo]

If you give hunters access to malice as either Sword or Spear that would give valks access to Malice , imagine a sword malice using valk pounding Ragnorock (with new proc next patch) when your malice debuffed ...

Its kinda like giving reavers a malice whip, never gona happen

But aye, hunters should get access to malice somehow ... bit unfair giving every other stealth class out there it and not them.

 

[crispy]

and give vamps malice piercer ^_^

 

[Takhasis]

yer give hunters malice. that way every single guy who plays a stealther can use malice.

that malice proc needs nerfing its like silly.

agree though its a bit unfair u cant get access to it as a hunter but like hunter has been getting boost after boost patch after patch, they gotta draw the line somewhere.

OMG i just spent 10 mins laughing at this?!

hunters getting boost after boost patch after patch - lol what f&*ckin planet do u live on ?!

try reading www.critshot.com forums some time to get a real insight into the "boosts" (rofl) we've had.

 

[Puppet]

OMG i just spent 10 mins laughing at this?!

hunters getting boost after boost patch after patch - lol what f&*ckin planet do u live on ?!

try reading www.critshot.com forums some time to get a real insight into the "boosts" (rofl) we've had.

Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.

To mention a few. Anyhow, personally I do think hunters should be granted Malice as 1H or 2H sword, but not spear. Also think Vampires, Valewalkers, Reavers, Savages and the other classes should get it aswell. Then nerf the proc to a 10-15% stat-debuff, not 25%.

I wonder tho, if you wanna equalize the artifacts, are you also for removing the style-reduction on PHN for Mids EXCEPT for skalds?

 

[Xajorkith]

Now. im not sure it has been discussed mutch. but as far as i can see. Hunters are the only stealther class that cant activate or use malice axe. and everytime i meet some stealther. i can be sure that he got malice to debuff me with.
now, im no expert in archering or at hunters (rr3 mkay) but i feel it a little "unfair" that hunters cant get malice axe (gif malice spear tbh!).
Am i totaly lost on the subjet? will it make hunters OP? or would it just be fair since hunters are the only stealthers without it?.
Is this a whine? Nope
Is this a suggestion to GMs? nope
Then what is this? a simple question what the comunity thinks about it? should Hunters get malice? or should they stay as they are?


Discuss.


(and no. i didnt learn grammar at school. i was sleeping )

I raised this very issue with the Hunter TL (Qisa) via the VN boards a few months back.

He asked and Mythic said that they are not going to give any class any additional artefacts, they then gave the Armsman Malice!
Hunter TL went back to Mythic and said give us Malice and Mythic said they are not going to give any class any additional artefacts...

The Hunter which is "meant" to be the Melee archer (which is clearly the Ranger) has no good melee weapon, SoK is crap and not many use GS. This then forces Hunters to use LGWs, BoS or CW.

A BoS or LGW user attacking a player grouped with a Warden or Cleric faces up to 24% additional resists. The Alb BB gives 24% Energy resist for 12.5 mins etc and I regularly run into Albs when I use BoS who do this.

Even if they don't have 24% BB resists up every god damn stealther has 10% additional Energy resist due to CL resist buff.
BoS procs is abysmal, it rarely procs and goes unresisted.

Ofc BoS weapons were also nerfed by 5% in the armour table fix.

Malice
Arrogance halves damage taken, which on DW high DPS chars means I'm dead before it switches effect, the switched effect can be purged anyway. Arrogance is ideal for countering FZ, Rangers and Scouts FZ hunters a plenty and yet Hunter have no counter. He who pops arrogance wins, it doesn’t matter what weapon a hunter has he’s fooked.

When it procs it debuffs, even if purged you do not get the HPs back from the con debuff. Rangers/NS/Infils are all DW which makes hitting them with 2H very prone to luck, and if hunter is w/s debuffed and Malice debuffed he is seriously fooked. Those Hunters going PD just get beaten down with Malice and an LGW by the DWers.

Malice procs as regular as Fatloads adds I don't know any other proc that procs as much.

The Hunter is also the ONLY stealther who cannot use the Cyclops Eye Shield an arti that many stealthers use to work out your resists so that they know which LGW to compliment Malice.

The problem for Hunters was that when ToA was being developed the TL (Branin) went AFK and it left Hunters hurting ever since.

An icle story.

I (3,250,000 rps) a hunter was solo near Blend last night, I see Racine NS (60,000 rps) solo and unstealthed, I fill him with arrows and put pet on him, we meet, his Malice procs first fecking hit, coupled with poison I'm massivly debuffed. So I purge. As you know purging doesn't give ya hits back. He reapplies poisons. I'm now struggling, I decide to try my luck with BoS (I carry 4 LGWs, BoS, Slash and Thurst) he has no resists and I'm hitting for no minus or plus. I start to loose (a few evades) so I resort to FZ. He uses Arrogance... I now can't finish him off, he comes out of FZ and purges my 7 sec rear stun and the bad effect of Malice in one go... he evades and I'm going to loose... so I IP.... I kill him and I'm on 1%.... (I'd already popped SoM so couldn't use Battler.)
That's how OP Malice is.


Should Hunters have Malice and Cyclops? Most definitely, there is absolutely no reason for them not to have it.

 

[Xajorkith]

> Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
This is a fix, it's hardly fecking loving, I pet summoned in water still can't go on land.

>Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
Because they nerfed us by taking chain off us... they gave Mincers chain though.... it makes no difference v DW (Evade 1 v Evade 1.5).

>Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
That's not implemented yet.

>Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
I thought it was 2nd in chain.. a hunter evading AND getting two hits in, just doesn't happen.

>Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.
True but that was only to give hunters the same length of stun as other classes.

 

[Puppet]

> Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
This is a fix, it's hardly fecking loving, I pet summoned in water still can't go on land.

>Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
Because they nerfed us by taking chain off us... they gave Mincers chain though.... it makes no difference v DW (Evade 1 v Evade 1.5).

>Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
That's not implemented yet.

>Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
I thought it was 2nd in chain.. a hunter evading AND getting two hits in, just doesn't happen.

>Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.
True but that was only to give hunters the same length of stun as other classes.

If u reason like this nothing is love really. Most stealthers dont have a 7 sec stun, but now you compare to 'other classes' where u specifically see this thread is about stealther vs. stealther balance.

 

[censi]

OMG i just spent 10 mins laughing at this?!

hunters getting boost after boost patch after patch - lol what f&*ckin planet do u live on ?!

I spent 20 mins laughing at yours.

what pup said tbh.

full melee hunters (half decent ones) can quite easily cut me down before I cut them down in a straigth dick swinging contest. On top of this though you can play the class now in real annoying ways like go mos4 set pet and just run. The rr5 has no disarm timer like scouts or rangers so u can kite and shoot with it. You have a 7 second rear stun that you can combine with FZ with basically means if you have FZ up and you opponent doesnt have purge up (which is gonna happening a lot), your opponent gets 16 seconds or getting the shit kicked out of him and not many stealthers can survive a hunter hitting on them for that long (if any).

your can spec hybrid and still be like 80-90% as good in melee as a full melee hunter because you have 1 less skill line. I mean I hear lots of whine about CD from hunters but its a line we have to spec as rangers, melee rangers have like 0 bow, you dont have to make this sacrifice as a hunter to be effective.

The hunters downfull is its performance versus the assasin class where you can find yourself missing too many hits and sucking up damage. But thats about it. Hunters are a very strong archer class, its just a large preportion of the peeps that play them sux balls for some reason. The ones that are good are also the ones you dont see moaning about the class because they know its competative.

imo anyway.

 

[Xajorkith]

your opponent gets 16 seconds or getting the shit kicked out of him and not many stealthers can survive a hunter hitting on them for that long (if any).

All stealthers can because all stealthers have access to Malice, a Scout has 9 sec anytime stun... and even ranger can stun at the end of FZ....

The rr5 has no disarm timer like scouts or rangers so u can kite and shoot with it ).

The snare gets resisted more often than not, the dog breaks it, damage shield breaks it and armour procs break it.... it's shit, really really difficult to use it to kite. It's main use is to snare someone who just stays out of melee range whilst running away (when my speed burst is down)

DW, BB Haste, Self Damage Add, Malice, Envenom bots is better than 2h no haste, no DA no Malice and no envenom (can't poison a spear but could go sword I suppose.).

Mythic should stop saying the Hunter is the Melee archer and actually admit the Ranger is the melee archer, the scout is the best bow archer and the Hunter the best hybrid. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Funny how two (Censimilia & Spinesprout) R10 Rangers think Hunters are fixed......

 

[Aiteal]

Give them malice and take away phn
10 mins outta 15 with style reduction is a pain in the arse

 

[Puppet]

All stealthers can because all stealthers have access to Malice, a Scout has 9 sec anytime stun... and even ranger can stun at the end of FZ....

You cannot deny a 7 sec backstun is way easier and more reliably to pull off then a shorter duration side-positional. Scouts can slam after the FZ, but how much damage are they gonna do during it? Alot if they bow spec, but if they slam u where u get out of FZ, they didnt use archery during FZ, so the comment is mood.

The snare gets resisted more often than not, the dog breaks it, damage shield breaks it and armour procs break it.... it's shit, really really difficult to use it to kite. It's main use is to snare someone who just stays out of melee range whilst running away (when my speed burst is down)

The snare is a level 50 spell, surely it gets resisted, but 'more often than not' is ofcourse bullshit. That your pet breaks it only means ur not using ur pet correctly (eg. put it on passive when u gonna use RR5, HELLO!)

DW, BB Haste, Self Damage Add, Malice, Envenom bots is better than 2h no haste, no DA no Malice and no envenom (can't poison a spear but could go sword I suppose.).

I dont use an envenom-bot, and I know only a handful rangers who use one, most not even on a regular scale, because its too cumbersome to use (need an inventory full with pre-venomed weapons etc). Healers have haste-conc based, yes its another buffbot, old argument, doesnt have much to do with the subject. And ofcourse ur ignoring the fact u can spec for a better spec-AF if u choose to go pure melee. You ignoring the pet, and 2 mundane damage-types when u choose to go spear, aswell as intrinsic higher WS.

Mythic should stop saying the Hunter is the Melee archer and actually admit the Ranger is the melee archer, the scout is the best bow archer and the Hunter the best hybrid. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Funny how two (Censimilia & Spinesprout) R10 Rangers think Hunters are fixed......

I didnt actually say hunters where fixed. I said they got some fixes, but you simply dismiss 'em. They could give hunters a rocketlauncher-style as 2nd in chain and you would dismiss it as 'Landing 2 hits in a row is impossible as hunter'. If you actually read my first reply you would see I actually agreed giving hunters access to Malice sword.

Perhaps its time to learn to play your class instead of 'go with the flow' and leeching with the Mid-waves rushing a keep/tower/bridge covered by Warlocks. You might actually learn how to play your class <gasp>

 

[Raven]

well played hunters are tough, badly played hunters are RP cows...just like any other class.

 

[Xajorkith]

You cannot deny a 7 sec backstun is way easier and more reliably to pull off then a shorter duration side-positional. Scouts can slam after the FZ, but how much damage are they gonna do during it? Alot if they bow spec, but if they slam u where u get out of FZ, they didnt use archery during FZ, so the comment is mood.

I'm sure yu mean moot but nm.
Forgeting FZ, in a front on 1 v 1 a side style is much easier to pull off than rear style.

The snare is a level 50 spell, surely it gets resisted, but 'more often than not' is ofcourse bullshit.

:
Issue Description:
I have several reports that Entwining Snakes is being resisted excessively. Request check to make sure it is acting as a level 50 spell for purposes of resists.

Trust me it gets resisted excessively.

That your pet breaks it only means ur not using ur pet correctly (eg. put it on passive when u gonna use RR5, HELLO!) .

Why patronise me, can't we keep this at an adult level? Of course every Hunter knows this..

I dont use an envenom-bot, and I know only a handful rangers who use one, most not even on a regular scale, because its too cumbersome to use (need an inventory full with pre-venomed weapons etc). Healers have haste-conc based, yes its another buffbot, old argument, doesnt have much to do with the subject. And ofcourse ur ignoring the fact u can spec for a better spec-AF if u choose to go pure melee. You ignoring the pet, and 2 mundane damage-types when u choose to go spear, aswell as intrinsic higher WS.
.

Most melee spec drop BC, you can easily see this by the grey pets that run around, so they often have less AF.

Having 2 mundane melee types is worthless and only applies to Spear, as Hunter have no good artefacts they tend to go BoS or LGW. I rarely use my slash spear.

Higher WS means fuck all.... it's a meaningless number. A hunter with 39+11 spear has exactly the same chance of hitting a level 7 evade Infil as someone with 50 +18 spear.... OK damage may vary but if you can't hit your target it's irrelevant.

I didnt actually say hunters where fixed. I said they got some fixes, but you simply dismiss 'em. They could give hunters a rocketlauncher-style as 2nd in chain and you would dismiss it as 'Landing 2 hits in a row is impossible as hunter'. If you actually read my first reply you would see I actually agreed giving hunters access to Malice sword..

It annoys me that FoTM OP rangers such as your self become self proclaimed experts on Hunters, and veto many changes to the hunter. At one time ES wasn't breakable; at that point it was useful now thanks to the OP Rangers whining it is not.

The fixes are often meaningless, take the fight with with the NS and Censi’s fix list..
> Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
I fought on land. No effect.

>Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
I still did not evade (really Evade 1.5 as 2h v DW). No effect.

>Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
That's not implemented yet. No effect.

>Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
I'm spear spec. No effect.

>Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.
Was purged. No effect.

So all those fixes contributed ZERO to my fight. Malice would actually contribute to the fight.

Perhaps its time to learn to play your class instead of 'go with the flow' and leeching with the Mid-waves rushing a keep/tower/bridge covered by Warlocks. You might actually learn how to play your class <gasp>

You are not in a position to patronise me (again). In four years I’ve met you about twice, you have no clue how I play. Over the last month how have I played?
I know how the Hunter works, I know how to play it, and unlike you I didn't achieve my rank through rolling an OP char and pretending I'm skilled, anyone can roll a ranger and do well with it, the Ranger is the equivalent of the pre nerf warlock in the stealth world.

As for Warlocks there's hardly any left, it would be correct to say Runemaster.

This is a discussion about Hunters and Malice and not about you slagging off me as a hunter.

 

[Aiteal]

the Ranger is the equivalent of the pre nerf warlock in the
stealth world.

You see thats where you lost it
The only thing that rangers have that hunters do not is DW.
I guess rangers are so frightening thats why when you and Eul(?) jumped me in a 2 vs 1 you used posionspike AND battler?

Some mids have such a victim mentality its laughable.

 

[Puppet]

I'm sure yu mean moot but nm.
Forgeting FZ, in a front on 1 v 1 a side style is much easier to pull off than rear style.

Yes, in 1vs1. However, in FZ it is not :O Also its not all thát hard to land a backpositional in 1vs1.

Why patronise me, can't we keep this at an adult level? Of course every Hunter knows this..

If every hunter knows this, then why do you make it to a point? So your point gets invalidated by yourselves :O Also, for the record, check the Hunter RR5 used once in my fight, and the pet breaks it immediatly. So either way oO

Most melee spec drop BC, you can easily see this by the grey pets that run around, so they often have less AF.

Do you actually even know smth about ur fellow hunters? Literally *ALL* melee-orientated hunters spec ATLEAST 32BC, some even go as high as low 40's. All I see is bluecon pets, I happen to see more low con pets on the hybrids.

Having 2 mundane melee types is worthless and only applies to Spear, as Hunter have no good artefacts they tend to go BoS or LGW. I rarely use my slash spear.

Your loss. Fight a minstrel ---> thrust-spear. Fight an infiltrator near Beno ---> slash-spear, etc etc. Legendaries arent always the best choice, more choices (for free) is always good. See Bludgeon on SB's :O

Higher WS means fuck all.... it's a meaningless number. A hunter with 39+11 spear has exactly the same chance of hitting a level 7 evade Infil as someone with 50 +18 spear.... OK damage may vary but if you can't hit your target it's irrelevant.

Once again your misinformed. You're talking about Wyrd-spec, and inherent higher WS. Ask a Thane and a Warrior about penetrating defenses, and damage. That comes from 1 thing: Weaponskill-difference.

It annoys me that FoTM OP rangers such as your self become self proclaimed experts on Hunters, and veto many changes to the hunter. At one time ES wasn't breakable; at that point it was useful now thanks to the OP Rangers whining it is not.

I see, I guess Im FOTM since my ranger actually was far into RR7 in Old Frontiers.

The fixes are often meaningless, take the fight with with the NS and Censi’s fix list..
> Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
I fought on land. No effect.

>Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
I still did not evade (really Evade 1.5 as 2h v DW). No effect.

>Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
That's not implemented yet. No effect.

>Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
I'm spear spec. No effect.

>Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.
Was purged. No effect.

So all those fixes contributed ZERO to my fight. Malice would actually contribute to the fight.

LOL. Just LOL.... Seriously, what kind of reasoning is this. Let me change it abit.

Malice didnt proc. It contributed ZERO to your fight.

You are not in a position to patronise me (again). In four years I’ve met you about twice, you have no clue how I play. Over the last month how have I played?

Ive seen you in action far more then twice. Just because you dont see me, doesnt mean Im not there.

I know how the Hunter works, I know how to play it, and unlike you I didn't achieve my rank through rolling an OP char and pretending I'm skilled, anyone can roll a ranger and do well with it, the Ranger is the equivalent of the pre nerf warlock in the stealth world.

Haha. Aye all those Rangers running up to a Mercenary and killing em in flat-out 2 seconds, before the Merc even realised what happened. Getting RR10 in a matter of 3-4 months.. aye happens all the time. Correct me if Im wrong, but there's 3 RR10+ Rangers on the cluster, since the beginning of DAOC, right ? Comparing Warlock and Ranger just shows how clueless you are..

 

[Mavericky]

I think malice is overpowered and could do with toning down, but as a hunter i dont mind not having it. I am happy to use LW, CW, and BoS weapons. Plus procs seem rarer on the hunter due to the slow swing speed therefore making malice less of an advantage in my mind

The trouble with melee hunters are they are a good class, but to timer dependant, timers up i can take out a rr11 inf, timers down and a rr3 could wipe the floor with me. If I get adds on the fight when they are up and blow everything then it's a long wait til I can do that much again. Malice only heightens this and make purge being down even harder.

Oh, and i have to agree with puppet, most melee hunters i speak to are 32 BC, 50 weapon, rest bow. (I have 42BC for the best AF buff, i also swap items for best buff bonus)


A ranger is an even fight V a hunter, just down to who has what up usually. Puppet's ranger is as tough as nails, but then again, it should be at that RR. Lower ones are usually just easy rp.

If I were wanting hunter help, then let the pet reduce assasin evade in the same way as duel wield does, but maybe make FZ purgeable to keep things fair

 

[bigchief]

The fixes are often meaningless, take the fight with with the NS and Censi’s fix list..
> Pets able to dive and submerge and go on land aswell
I fought on land. No effect.

>Evade 2 ---> Evade 3
I still did not evade (really Evade 1.5 as 2h v DW). No effect.

>Pets no longer generating any procs on the enemy
That's not implemented yet. No effect.

>Access to an off-evade stun with Sword-spec
I'm spear spec. No effect.

>Razor's Edge improved to a 7 sec stun instead of 5 seconds.
Was purged. No effect.

So all those fixes contributed ZERO to my fight. Malice would actually contribute to the fight.

Sorry. What?

From the top ...

the change to the pet is a boost, whether it was relevant in that one example or not. Why the fuck are you whining about it?

Whether you evade or not its still been a boost to your evade rate, again, just because it didn't happen in that one fight doesnt mean its worthless.

Sword stun -> its your choice not to spec for it. Thats like sb's with sub 39LA whining about no eade stun. If you want that stun, spec for it instead of whining.

The rear style stun still made him use purge, he nearly won because he used an artifact timer (something you said you could not do because you had used SoM ...) and used an active RA. you used some too, which meant you won. Seriously, whats the issue? You're an archer going up in melee vs a pure melee class that used an artifact and an ra, which you counter with a couple of your own. You won, he lost, why the hell do you whine?

End of the day, if you had malice in that fight your dmg would have been a lot less as he is a ns in slash resistant armour, you might not have proc'd at all thus gaining nothing there and you still couldn't use the charge as your timer was still down ...

 

[Xajorkith]

I couldn't be bothered to read whole thread, I don't know what context means but I’ll jump in with two feet.

Umm over the thread the context of what I wrote is shifting.

To recap what I’m trying to get at:

Hunters deserve Malice, it would not OP them ,it would make them equal to the other stealthers. I don't mind loosing PHN, afterall I have WH and SoM and getting PHN into template is a pig.

The point of the NS story was to highlight that Malice is OP, it almost allowed a R3 NS caught in the open at range and FZ'd to win a fight against an R8 Hunter. Malice is clearly a match winner.

The point I made about the boosts was just to play them down, Censi was implying that the boosts were significant and they are not, the boosts no where near come close to what Malice provides. I don't dispute they are boosts they are just not significant.

Once again your misinformed. You're talking about Wyrd-spec, and inherent higher WS. Ask a Thane and a Warrior about penetrating defenses, and damage. That comes from 1 thing: Weaponskill-difference..

Nope it's you that is wrong, Wyrd spec does not apply to 2h. Tests published on VN highlighted that once 51 composite spec for a 2h was achieved then WS did not affect defence penetration. One of the Grab bag said that WS was a meaningless number. Going above 51 decreases damage variance as does more dex/str depending on your weapon.

 

[Tuppe]

Sorry. What?

From the top ...

the change to the pet is a boost, whether it was relevant in that one example or not. Why the fuck are you whining about it?

Whether you evade or not its still been a boost to your evade rate, again, just because it didn't happen in that one fight doesnt mean its worthless.

Sword stun -> its your choice not to spec for it. Thats like sb's with sub 39LA whining about no eade stun. If you want that stun, spec for it instead of whining.

The rear style stun still made him use purge, he nearly won because he used an artifact timer (something you said you could not do because you had used SoM ...) and used an active RA. you used some too, which meant you won. Seriously, whats the issue? You're an archer going up in melee vs a pure melee class that used an artifact and an ra, which you counter with a couple of your own. You won, he lost, why the hell do you whine?

End of the day, if you had malice in that fight your dmg would have been a lot less as he is a ns in slash resistant armour, you might not have proc'd at all thus gaining nothing there and you still couldn't use the charge as your timer was still down ...

pet change was fix, hmm think they change same time druids pet same way, when these 2 classes was only whiutout pets who moved around surface.

hunter started this game whit evade 1, rised to 2 and now 3, smells alott love here

stuns i say only one thing, when theres other lines 5 sec stuns in ~25 spec, and spear have 5 sec stun in 39, its needing fix.
and its fixed.

ranger can have high weapon/dw and same time ~20 bow.
there have been tests you dont loosing nearly at all dmg speccing low at bow
thou hitting target is littlebit weaker.

ranger have allso dmg add, higher self buffs in pathfinding line, mainly wonder why self buffs are higher?
theres alott difference between ranger and hunter, hunter can be good class but in reality you need all possible ML junk + arties + RL7 to survive, even after this sitting alott on butt and waite timers recycle, can be fun.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

hunter started this game whit evade 1, rised to 2 and now 3, smells alott love here

No. Hunters started the game with Evade 1 and Chain armor. They removed chain armor and never gave us anything in return. It took them FOUR years to give us Evade 3.

They locked Scout and Ranger on 25 weapon skill maximum, with hunter being the only ones who would spec to 50 melee skill. That limit was removed because scouts and rangers had problems XPing. (Fair enough.). Again, hunters got nothing in exchange for that indirect nerf.

They added insta-dog because our pet is part of the total damage output picture for hunters. Hunters who can't get their pet into combat are basically missing damage. I'm suspecting the dog is even considered buffed when in the 'damage picture', so we're still running under-damaging. The dog SHOULD be there. That's why it's made insta. Unfortunately, even insta is a band-aid fix, because it only helps when it's actually near enough to attack. To add insult to injury, the dog caused procs resulting in negative damage. THAT is why the proc was nerfed for hunter pets only.

True, most of it is ancient history, but hunters have a long way to go before we can speak of 'hunter love'. It's pretty much compensation in most cases. I'll admit that I'm not exactly objective, but then again, neither are the people here who scream that we're getting luuuuv by the dropping bucketload.

 

[Xajorkith]

Now. im not sure it has been discussed mutch. but as far as i can see. Hunters are the only stealther class that cant activate or use malice axe. and everytime i meet some stealther. i can be sure that he got malice to debuff me with.
now, im no expert in archering or at hunters (rr3 mkay) but i feel it a little "unfair" that hunters cant get malice axe (gif malice spear tbh!).
Am i totaly lost on the subjet? will it make hunters OP? or would it just be fair since hunters are the only stealthers without it?.
Is this a whine? Nope
Is this a suggestion to GMs? nope
Then what is this? a simple question what the comunity thinks about it? should Hunters get malice? or should they stay as they are?


Discuss.


(and no. i didnt learn grammar at school. i was sleeping )

Here we go...

Issue Description:
Artifacts are severely limited for Hunters, example is Malice - available to Scouts/Rangers, not Hunters. Some 1H weapons are available, however, a Hunter to fight/use 1H weapons severely lowers damage output when Hunters use 2H weapons. 1H artifacts can only be used for artifact abilities.
Mythic Response:
There are no plans at this time to add more artifacts, or to open up availability of existing artifacts to any more classes.