http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26080747

[Aoami]

Oil Pipelines, pretty much.

???

It's got nothing to do with Oil.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Speaking of oil..!


According to NBC there is alot of oil in Abkhazia. Thats one more reason for this little dispute.


For the jokers here: you have to be really fucking stupid if you dont understand how important this is. This is a clear sign that the cold war is back and thats a very VERY bad thing if we consider the fact that we're running out oil.

Big trouble ahead. Enjoy while you can.

 

[Marc]

???

It's got nothing to do with Oil.

America and the west want Georgia on their side as it gives them access to pipelines that bypass Russia and Iran.

The Russians want to control the region again to ensure they have total control over Europes energy supplies.

The poor Georgians/Ossetians are pawns being sacrificed for a greater purpose.

And true to form, the americans get involved today.

 

[Aoami]

Edit - ignore that.

Maybe i was being naive to think it wasn't aboutt Oil, but i'm not sure it's the main reason anythign kicked off.

Remember that it was Georgia who made the first move.

 

[Marc]

Edit - ignore that.

Maybe i was being naive to think it wasn't aboutt Oil, but i'm not sure it's the main reason anythign kicked off.

Remember that it was Georgia who made the first move.

Indeed. Maybe I am going a bit OTT. However, I agree that the route causes of the fighting are based on history rather than the pipeline.
However the pipeline gives the west a strategic reason to be interested, and seek influence in what happens there. Hence the moves to get Georgia within NATO.

If there was no pipeline to Europe, as in Chechnya, then the west wouldnt give a damn what the Russians were upto.

Interestingly the Chechens have been seeking to work closely with the Georgians to set up such a pipeline
why should chechnya need a new oil pipeline

Now you can see therefore why the Russians are interested in taking back control of Georgia.

An independant Georgia supplying the west with Chechen and Azerbaijani oil and gas that bypasses Russia, reduces Moscows control over Europe.
At the same time Russia also loses further influence in Chechnya.

You can see therefore why they would want to get directly involved.

At the same time Europe must be concerned at the way Russia is trying to monopolise energy supplies to Europe. Remember most European countries are landlocked so oil and gas must be supplied by pipeline, not ship.
If Russia has the power to turn off the energy supply then most EU countries will become Russian puppet states. This will therefore influence EU decision making and it wont matter what Britain thinks as we will find ourselves constantly outvoted by puppets of the Russians

 

[Aoami]

I agree that the west has to be wary of Russia. They have a lot of power and perhaps need to be reigned in a bit, but NATO seem to be continualy pissing them off. It's interesting however that we're staying clear despite the pipeline apparently being British owned.

On another note, it also doesn't take a genius to work out where China would probably stand if anything bigger kicked off - we're all fucked.

 

[Uara]

I read an interesting article in the times on Saturday about saying that although Georgia made the first move, they were essentially lured into a trap by the russian.

How Georgia fell into its enemies' trap | Edward Lucas - Times Online

Essentially the Russian pushed the Georgians into aggressive action against the South Ossetians and therefore giving the Russians the window of opportunity to strike back hard against them and continue their sphere of influence policy.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Al Jazeera English - Europe - Russia 'ends Georgia conflict'

Russia ends combat in Georgia.


It'll be interesting to see how the ex-soviet countries who want(ed) to join NATO react to all of this.

 

[Ezteq]

You know Lamp, for a middle aged person you're not that mature...!

omg rofl, ah man lol.

do you know many "middle aged" people? none of em are mature, we kind of regress and get mentally younger as our bodies get old and wither and decay...its quite sad really.

anyhoo, i dont know whats going on out there but i dont like it. I mean i really cant imagine it, sat down watching telly one minute the next theres a sodding air to surface missile (these may or may not exist its possible i heard about them or i could have just made them up) walloping everything in sight and ASDA is on fire, the post box is upside down, the trees are all vapourised and my neighbours are all walking about with blood on their faces and that blank gormless "wtf" look on their faces.... its mind boggling (well for me anyway because i live in dorset and we dont have wars down here....we have hedgehogs and scones).

anyway like i said i dont understand it so i shall just remain blissfully ignorant and hope it all gets sorted out soon.

 

[Laddey]

Would britain beat russia in a fight?

 

[Marc]

Would britain beat russia in a fight?

We'ed beat anyone in a fight, we are cock of the world.

 

[Laddey]

We'ed beat anyone in a fight, we are cock of the world.

I thought so.

We are fucked if we have pansies fighting for us like tris- and Aoami though

 

[Aoami]

fuck off if i'm fighting. i'll make helicopters or something

 

[Laddey]

fuck off if i'm fighting. i'll make helicopters or something

In the rear with the gear ;<

 

[Uara]

gimme a sniper-rifle so as to avoid any close shooty shooty and i'd be happy

 

[Aoami]

In the rear with the gear ;<

better than taking it in the rear for gear like your mum :|

 

[Laddey]

better than taking it in the rear for gear like your mum :|

hahahahahhah


How long did it take you to think that up? Fucking funny fucker

 

[Gorbachioo]

Hmm maybe i called this off too soon.


The russians are saying that they will not negotiate with Saakashvili. Im thinking that means they'll try to blackmail the georgians to elect a pro-Russia president which would effectively be the same thing as invading the country. And if they resist then this whole thing could start all over again.


This isnt over yet.

 

[Ctuchik]

We'ed beat anyone in a fight, we are cock of the world.

no that would be sweden and norway with finland as the nutsack....


/edit: but anyway, the reason i think Russia is doing this is to try to deter any of the other ex USSR nations from joining NATO.

 

[Gorbachioo]

New push on Georgia despite Russia vow - Russia - MSNBC.com

Georgians claim new Russian attacks.


I hate being right all the time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fuck Georgia, what's it's population? 8?

Thanks for keeping my "anti-" chair, i can take it back now


Honestly, this is nothing, it's the missile defence system the US has said they will build in mhmhmhm and the russians who said they WILL retaliate with military force, that will f*ck things up.

 

[Chronictank]

ffs i leave for a week and you guys let bahm00 do this much damage?!?

on topic; this isn't going to end well regardless how it pans out
Hopefully most of us will stay out of it and let the yanks and russians sort it between themselves

 

[Gorbachioo]

Thanks for keeping my "anti-" chair, i can take it back now


Honestly, this is nothing, it's the missile defence system the US has said they will build in mhmhmhm and the russians who said they WILL retaliate with military force, that will f*ck things up.

This is coming from the guy who said that everything would be okay if oil ran out tomorrow. Should i even bother to try to debate this?

I'll try!

As ive said many times before: The cold war is back. Thats an incredibly bad thing considering that peak oil is here too. It would be in any case.

If Russia controls all of Georgia that'll put 1 million barrels of western oil in Russian hands. Whether its through regime change or invasion.

This is a serious threat to NATO expansion to the east. Whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is up to you to decide.

And then theres the fact that people are suffering and dying. But that has never been a factor on this forum so forget that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This is coming from the guy who said that everything would be okay if oil ran out tomorrow. Should i even bother to try to debate this?

First, i didn't say everything would be alright, i said we'd be fine. It would cause problems, but we'd survive no problem.

Second, i'm not disbuting your doomsday theory, just saying that the US-Russia conflict over the missile defence base is a bigger issue.

 

[Gorbachioo]

And im telling you that this crisis is very closely linked to that dispute.


Al Jazeera English - Europe - Russian military on 'Tbilisi road'

Russian military heading for Tbilisi.


Not cool.

 

[Ctuchik]

First, i didn't say everything would be alright, i said we'd be fine. It would cause problems, but we'd survive no problem.

no i dont think we would. WHEN the oil starts to run out i dont think theres anything that would stop WW3 over whats left of that oil.

and i VERY much doubt we as a race would survive that. because nukes WILL get involved. i just hope i'm fucking dead and buried by then. because i sure as hell dont wanna take my chances trying to survive it.

 

[aika]

21/12/2012 mates

 

[old.Tohtori]

Don't quite see the link Gorb, care to explain a bit?

Major point, i'm not disbuting your theories, nor confirming, just feel the missile thing is a bit more "dangerous".

no i dont think we would. WHEN the oil starts to run out i dont think theres anything that would stop WW3 over whats left of that oil.

and i VERY much doubt we as a race would survive that. because nukes WILL get involved. i just hope i'm fucking dead and buried by then. because i sure as hell dont wanna take my chances trying to survive it.

Check history and see what huanity has survived. We and roaches, can't get rid of. My opinion ofcourse and noone knows

 

[Ctuchik]

And im telling you that this crisis is very closely linked to that dispute.

i'm bound to agree tbh. this is Russias way of trying to prevent former USSR nations letting USA have a missile shield that close to russia.

when/if russia manage to win georgia i'm almost certain they will use that as a threat to any of the other nations that plan to join NATO and/or have part of that missile shield in their country.

and USA is stupid enough to take the bait.

 

[Drucken]

Let US and Russia play it out? You do realise US resources are stretched very thin right now and if they would start a big war with Russia Iran would attack them aswell. I don't think the other western countries has the luxury to sit and let the US defend our superiority, the world war between the west and the rest of the world isn't too far away.

Edit: Seriously? 5 posts while i was typing?