How to dismantle a class

[Driwen]

I play on midgard and no ppl dont want hunters as pullers as skald and runnies do that just aswell and they have other uses. So a hunter wont get into a group just pulling. It will only happen, because either they think u do nice amount of damage or cause they like u.

But ok archer vs minstrel, if you are running round out of stealth alone that aint smart. I have no idea if an archer could kill u in that fight, i doubt it. But it might be possible, but i doubt it. I however have lil real experience yet on killing people wearing chain or hitting them. Hearing from what other people say I doubt it.

And btw i couldnt find the loss of mana regen to sorcerers, so you will still be the class to give that and ppl still want poms (that the mana regen version of midgard) even with mcl. Next to your reasonable amout of damage and infils have nothing to do in this talk as we are talking about archers and minstrels and i believe infils can deal good damage. But we werent talking about groups, we were talking about in RvR.

Anyway i wasnt trying to whine here, i just would like to see a reason why archers are useful in rvr (not for their own rp farming...). In RvR the minstrel has a place in a group as it got the best speed and speed is important and u can do some extra damage.
Archers might be ok solo killers if everything goes their way on a few classes. They have however no real place in the RvR groups other than they are ofc another lil extra damage, but if ppl could get a tank or caster instead of him they would have.

 

[Aussie-]

Archers had their time.

just remember me,eleasias and nolby
I enjoyed my solo time alot and i'm sure the other 2 did too

 

[sorusi]

I vote Sorcerer and all casters exept enchanter for most nerfed class

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by old.BJ|Bored
fact is archer wuth any sense will kill minstrel purely as both have similar hits, but archer will do 1k odd of dmg before the minstrel gets close

(i have 1100 hits) ...

Don't speak of things you have no idea of.

1k damage is only attainable if the target is standing still, even if they're stealthed but moving you can't crit someone. Also the 1k crits aren't something you get every single time you actually hit with the crit. In addition to that a 1k hit requires low resists and low absorb armour.And another addition, ANY shield(even unspecced) has a base chance of 30% to block any archery attack. With shieldspec that % goes up to more than 60%. Engage(7shieldspec) brings that up to 95%+.

And even another addition is that if you look at the DPS of the shot, it's not that high. Archery attacks are very slow to get that sort of damage.

Did you know that ALL archery attacks are counted as unstyled hits? An archery attack brings out the worst from Caster attacks and melee attacks. Minstrels with evade 2, warriors with evade 1 seem to evade arrows like there's no tomorrow because the attack is counted as unstyled. Both Critshot and a normalshot has no to-hit bonus.

The Scout TL just proved that in casual rvr the archerattacks are wasted(does not do damage) in up to 80% of the total attacks made.(block/bt/pbt/evade/miss/fumble) Miss and fumble rates are way higher than any other attack in the game btw. In PVE I can count on missing or fumbling atleast once everyother fight. In rvr the missed shots are higher because of the aforementioned reasons.

stop whining for a class thats just as nerfed/useless as others but at least your not getting smacked about with nerfbat every patch, i mean ppl want scouts for pulling in xp groups what will they want minstrels for when they get sorc mana crack and increased caster speed ? its already hard enough i imagine due to high lvl casters with mcl etc but no, im sure a rogue class with pathetic dmg output who can take even less agro than a inf is gonna be hounded for a group.

Not getting smacked with a nerfbat? I laugh at you.
www.daocscout.com

That site lists all 'tweaks' made to the archer class since retail shipment.

And NO, people do not want scouts in xp groups for pulling. There is absolutely no reason to put a scout in a group. All the abilities a scout has in a group can be done equally as good or better by other classes who also has more utility and/or has more hp/better armour.

- A cabalist can nearsight pull(longer range). Or you can use a theurgist to pull with pet. Or you can use the paladin or the friar pull.

- Any other shieldspec class can guard/slam(plus they have more hp= bring more to the group)

- Any caster outdamages an archer because of the cast time.

- A scout cannot tank.

We are not needed for damage. We are not needed to pull. We are not needed to guard. And people hate to have to heal us. But we are damn good lootpickers.

So don't act like you're the ones bad off, heh, scouts have had it like that the last year. But ofcourse, you didn't care then, cause you got groups anyway.

I challenge you to find a reason to put a Scout in a group

Welcome to the club. /shrug

By sorusiI vote Sorcerer and all casters exept enchanter for most nerfed class

Right. :wall:

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Olgark
And so I await Shadowbane, the game that will kill camelot. trust me on that one.

I an currently beta testing Shadowbane and have signed the NDA so I can't say much about it.

I am really looking forward to playing DAOC for the rest of this year at least. SI looks really good and I am sure DAOC will remain competitive and will have new content added as the months/years pass.

 

[old.0xygen]

I'm still waiting for them to put Bm's together for the first time.

 

[Flimgoblin]

hey you missed

1.53: new dungeons added to frontiers - they're enclosed so hard to snipe people from range.
1.54: Alchemy added, now black dye is cheaper so it's harder to see the people we want to shoot.

1.55: Level 51 cloth armor should now get the correct amount of bonus levels. = this means those casters are even harder to kill

sorry, couldn't resist - the first two "nerfs" on your list were too funny.
Any change to the game it's a nerf to archers!

Some of the other ones are valid (although some are bugs and statistical anomalies), e.g. the procs one is annoying.

Now, they need some help, but they're far from the worst (in RvR at any rate.. pve is a different matter) class in the game. Most nerfed possibly... but still not the worst.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
hey you missed



sorry, couldn't resist - the first two "nerfs" on your list were too funny.
Any change to the game it's a nerf to archers!

Some of the other ones are valid (although some are bugs and statistical anomalies), e.g. the procs one is annoying.

Now, they need some help, but they're far from the worst (in RvR at any rate.. pve is a different matter) class in the game. Most nerfed possibly... but still not the worst.

The url listed isn't 'my list', it's a compilation of nerfs made by someone else. Mock and laugh as much as you want. As far as I know you couldn't care less.

I am simply responding to a guy who shouts out comments that are straigth out wrong or twisted.

As long as you read the stuff in the url you can draw your own conclusions.

Now, they need some help, but they're far from the worst (in RvR at any rate.. pve is a different matter) class in the game. Most nerfed possibly... but still not the worst.

Most/worst... /shrug. Why compete of the two bottom spots? Heh..

 

[Cowled]

And you wonder why i deleted?

 

[Cowled]

Originally posted by driwen
minstrells still got their mezzes and speed songs though and infils do ALOT more damage than an archer and mythic doesnt want solo players, but when u do less damage than everyone else does. Whats the use of the archers then? Archers arent solo'ers anymore, so we should find a new task for them. They got longest range and stealth so mb send them ahead of ur group scout the place out and when ur group comes in to kill the other group interrupt the caster with their mezz(of the other group)?

Go go, interupt the insta mez/stun

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

Originally posted by Tranquil-


Don't speak of things you have no idea of.

1k damage is only attainable if the target is standing still, even if they're stealthed but moving you can't crit someone. Also the 1k crits aren't something you get every single time you actually hit with the crit. In addition to that a 1k hit requires low resists and low absorb armour.And another addition, ANY shield(even unspecced) has a base chance of 30% to block any archery attack. With shieldspec that % goes up to more than 60%. Engage(7shieldspec) brings that up to 95%+.
[/B]

I have no idea? yes ill pull out my shield skill line spec to get engage.. oh WAIT i dont have a shield spec i have a stealth spec that has NO partial fix.

u cant hit for 1k in 1 shot ? oh i feel for you i really do as i waltz around doing my awesome dmg.. FIRE MORE THAN ONCE.
shield 30% block ? oh look if im moving i have a drum out as i need instruments to give spells like speed ...

and even IF IF i say i manage to live through ALL your attacks and get close to you with 100% health look what will happen Mr scout ... shield stun! and then shoot me some more ...

yea minst will lose to archer obviously



and in future patch sorc get mana crack and theurg get incresed speed ;p

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by old.BJ|Bored


I have no idea? yes ill pull out my shield skill line spec to get engage.. oh WAIT i dont have a shield spec i have a stealth spec that has NO partial fix.

u cant hit for 1k in 1 shot ? oh i feel for you i really do as i waltz around doing my awesome dmg.. FIRE MORE THAN ONCE.
shield 30% block ? oh look if im moving i have a drum out as i need instruments to give spells like speed ...

and even IF IF i say i manage to live through ALL your attacks and get close to you with 100% health look what will happen Mr scout ... shield stun! and then shoot me some more ...

yea minst will lose to archer obviously



and in future patch sorc get mana crack and theurg get incresed speed ;p

If I got in a shot while you were moving it wouldn't have been a 1k damage shot. If I hit you at all speed would have broken and with speed down a smart minstrel wips out his shield and /face combat mode. Blockrate modified by dex makes it very hard to get arrows in. Then as you get into 700 range you DD/stun mez me and I can't get more shots in, it doesn't take long to move 1500 loc units with shield out(If the scout was at maz range, heh).

And about ALL my attacks as you so nicely put it. ALL my attacks are on 4/5 sec drawtimes. Do you mean you will be standing still and receive damage for the 10 secs it takes to load out the arrows(not considering miss/fumble)?

Though what has a minstrel vs scout, head to head comparison have to do with anything? It's not like we'll fight each other is it, mr.minstrel? :wall:

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Cowled


Go go, interupt the insta mez/stun

stun isnt that long and albs dont got insta mezzes

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by censi
Team leads confirm that archers hit less than 20% OF THE TIME IN RVR. This means 80% of the time in RVR archers hit for ZERO!!

..er yeh except that data was gathered by the SCOUT teamlead in RvR against HIBS & MIDS running stacked 6s pbt, while you have to fight against that overpowered NON EXISTANT ALB 6s stacked pbt.

Not to mention the abundance of mezz in hib allowing hib archers to shoot fish in a barrel...

I remember the days when archers WERE uber and it wasn't pleasant for the rest of us i can assure u. Rangers are fine i think, Hunters since thier recent luv prolly also, but Scout melee truly sux.

 

[old.Odysseus]

I just wonder what place archers really have in ths world.
- Its not damage dealing
- Its not casterkilling
- Its certainly not tanking
- Not scouting

- Interrupting casters maybe?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Tranquil-

Most/worst... /shrug. Why compete of the two bottom spots? Heh..

There is a difference

If you start with char A having 100 points of power and char B having 1.

Even if you tenth the power of A - B is still worse.

(of course if everyone else is still on 50 then A needs some lovin' too...)