How to balance Mentalist in RvR

[ttillub]

Here is part of a post from Mentalist TL.

Basicly: AoE Dot gets falloff and can crit only 50%.

:eek2:

Is Mentalist really a class that needs even more nerfing?
Comparing AoE DD and AoE Dot resulted to this. If mage class has bad spells Mythic balances things by making other spells suck too.

http://pub108.ezboard.com/fmypetmagefrm16.showMessage?topicID=207.topic
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Here is what we ended up with:
- Mythic is unaware that the DoT does not critical the way it should (Crits modified by variance).
- DoTs need to be reduced from 100% crit to 50% crit in RvR. For this change to warrant, another damage modifying RA is necessary, such as Mastery of the Arcane affecting DoT damage or some other modifier (tick rate, duration, etc).

I want you all to know the following:
DDs and DoTs are meant to be very similar. This means that many of their properties are supposed to be similar or the same, which we all know they are not. DoTs having one modifying RA and DDs having two modifying RAs is one example. The two major differences are that DoTs currently crit for 100% max in RvR (DDs only crit for 50% max in RvR) and DoTs do not have damage falloff, whereas DDs do. It is Mythic’s intention that both DDs and DoTs should only crit for up to 50% in RvR, this I agree with. It is also Mythic’s intention that both DDs and DoTs should suffer equally from falloff. You guys know I strongly disagree with this, especially in the current state of the game. However, I think if Mythic brought both the AE DD and the AE DoT to a falloff of 50%, like AE Mezz, etc, the AE DD would finally be made useful and the AE DoT will maintain its usefulness.
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[Amadon]

yes, nerf casters more.. I mean heaven forbid we can actually deal some damage for all that we sacrifice

 

[Spamb0t]

uhm ae dot is only good when u got time to wait for ppl to die.. like when defending or attacking a keep.. rather worthless in fast rvr action :x

 

[old.Laryssa]

respec to light

 

[Qte Eth]

omfg

 

[Danya]

I'm glad mythic ignores TL reports sometimes.

 

[Qte Eth]

wierd that ench tl and ment tl want to nerf class?
while other tls want their class to become uber

ae dd sux ,but is it a reason to make ae dot suck same?O-O

 

[i-scream]

Very strange

Very strange: Kwea Kimone is Mentalist TL ?
Then why is he a Blademaster lvl 17 in Death is Eminent ?

 

[Brennik]

You don't apply fixes to "uber", because that would cause cries for making something "even more uber". Thus, you get something nerfed so you can get people to fix the real issues.

"uber" here being DoTs and the real issues being obscene interrupt rates and "too high" magic resists on tanks and crappy spell lines.

Just think, what do you get if they nerf chanters by moving the debuffs to the pet line (like cabalist has them)? The only good spell in Mana is going to be PBAOE, meaning they MIGHT actually do something about that and all the useless attack speed debuffs.

 

[ttillub]

Obscene interrupt rates and magic resists are something that effect all mages. And need to be fixed.
I do not see connection with mentalist dots here.
It is not like if they fix interrupts etc. that they can not fix anything else same time.

Mana mentalist's only decent damage spell is about to be nerfed.
'Mana mentalist is good in keep defence/attack.'
Well how about after this?

DoT gets weaker and AoE DD gets stronger. Mana mentalist has useless AoE DD even after this.
I see 3 options if this takes place:
1. retire
2. craft
3. kill dragon and respec to light

 

[Brennik]

Valid points, but that's like saying mentalist are the only DoT chars around... Nerf them all and then they will have to compensate somewhere.

 

[ttillub]

Originally posted by Brennik
Valid points, but that's like saying mentalist are the only DoT chars around... Nerf them all and then they will have to compensate somewhere.

First of all DoTs do NOT need nerfing at all.
Second, what makes You think Mythic will compensate?
I do not understand why developing = nerfing and then compensating?

No offence mate

 

[Qte Eth]

if i am not mistaken in some shamen tl report ive read that tl spoke to mythic and they said that dot is supposed to interupt mages at every tick ^^
dunno if that idea found any luck coz it was a quite old report ,but not only dots dont get any boost ,they are nerfed now

that all big part about ae dd and ae do misses 1 thing -u can cast 10 ae dds while 1 ae dot is ticking and dealing Much more damage with it ,while he speaks about 1 spell...dunno quite strange
only thing i think dots need to do half damage while being res sick and having same damage falloff as dds on high level mobs

 

[Danya]

Why nerf dots? Just boost the AE DD.

 

[old.Derszu]

....

well...

i am happy u did not repeat the whole post from kwea here...

first... this is no TL-report...
it ia a part of a personel email from kwea to the Mystic spell designer... so it does not represent any kind of official report...

ive read through it all and yeah it took me the same 4 hrs. to understand everything in kweas post...

fact is, the crit on DoT is not calculated properly and needs correction...

why should a TL always be up to make his class uber?

Basicly: AoE Dot gets falloff and can crit only 50%.

Basicaly ur right, but it seems u haven't read it all...

Kwea wants crit 50% only if we get new RA (like Mastery of Arcana) to raise DoT dmg...

and (imo) DoTs must get a base crit chance then...

 

[Qte Eth]

why should a TL always be up to make his class uber?

eh he shouldnt be always up,but ments really need a boost,not a nerf atm,i know he is asking for boost for like 6 months now ,all we got was that fa is unable to be used in combat and since ments for somer reasons cant get fa it was a small "boost", i just think mythic would likely nerf instead of checking balance and boosting smth=)

and others tls are up -check zerk report for example=)
lmao

 

[Amadon]

those poor nerfed zerkers

 

[ttillub]

Re: ....

Originally posted by old.Derszu
well...

i am happy u did not repeat the whole post from kwea here...

first... this is no TL-report...
it ia a part of a personel email from kwea to the Mystic spell designer... so it does not represent any kind of official report...

ive read through it all and yeah it took me the same 4 hrs. to understand everything in kweas post...

fact is, the crit on DoT is not calculated properly and needs correction...

why should a TL always be up to make his class uber?


Basicaly ur right, but it seems u haven't read it all...

Kwea wants crit 50% only if we get new RA (like Mastery of Arcana) to raise DoT dmg...

and (imo) DoTs must get a base crit chance then...

I never claimed it to be TL report.
I read it all.
TL should not make his/her class uber but balanced. At least so that it is enjoyable to play.
I don't know about You but I allready know where I want to put my RPs. I do not want to buy even more RAs to have a possibility gain something we now have.
Base crit chance would be something You are right.
No use argueing here. Lets just hope something good comes out of this

 

[old.chipper]

well im already light spec so not much problems from my side

but yet again another nerf that could possibly come about. mentalist really is a piss poor class in certain situations light m8 might as well just sit down when defending a keep,
mentalist ment well um er :/
mana ment well dunno how u fair in normal rvr but im sure light spec must be a lot easier to get kills

thing is mythic have been told time and again hib mages need looking at and yet again we get fobbed off while they go fine tweak zerkers etc so they can 1 shot casters.

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by old.chipper
light m8 might as well just sit down when defending a keep,
.

hmm no... I remember Oom killing about 20 mids in one burst of aoe... it's about picking your spot and time to aoe

 

[Qte Eth]

heh that ae kill was most ridiculous thing i EVER saw ,so far=)

 

[old.chipper]

yeah i know nova bit its a bit hard to do that when 15 necros get pet to nuke you through a wall

 

[Amadon]

which will be fixed way before we see any changes to mentalists

 

[Danya]

I do well enough in open field RvR chipper, main problem is the baseline nuke sucks a lot of power so if the fight lasts any length of time I go oom.

 

[old.Ramas]

The problem they seem to miss is overwrites and stacking.

Currently overwrite on DoTs is spell level based.

Currently two dot casters cannot both cast on one target unless they are using different spell lines.

The first item is not currently a problem because dot damage is currently in line with the level of the spell. But falloff means spells of higher level could be doing less damage than that of lower level spells, depending on locations and targetting.

Fall-off is fair enough if the same dot from different casters would stack and if overwrites are handled purely on the basis of damage done. You'd need to do this before you could start comparing DoTs with DDs.

Difficult to see how you could fairly have fall off without these changes.

 

[Danya]

Overwrites are based on damage done, you can't overwrite a crit dot with a non-crit dot, or a lower crit dot, only a higher crit dot...

 

[Cloak_]

Just remember,

Dont AE Dot on a AE Mezz

 

[old.Verata]

On the positive side, maybe something like this will get Mythic to address the Mentalism line without worrying about overpowering the class. Mentalism is in more dire need to fixing than any other spec line in the game, with the possible exception of Void. I'd like to see us get something like the following in the Mentalism:

- AoE heals with the same kind of falloff as AoE DD's
- HoT becoming AoE after lvl 3 (Similar to Shaman)
- End-over-time (30 second endurance regen buff)
- Warden/Chanter speed buff

Ah well. One can dream...

 

[Qte Eth]

heh actually ae hots should be in mana line ,and i dont see any reasons why shaman got ae hots and ment doesnt

and that end regen for 30 sec or speed cant do much to get ppl spec mentalism

ae heals sound interesting but even they wont have much use imo coz ppla are rarely standing so close in fight .. smth like ae stun could do it ,tho

 

[Danya]

Group cast POT would make my life a damn lot easier tbh.