How much dex is enough

[Bladze]

Ive played almost purely mellee toons in Albion so whilst dex has had its uses it hasnt been the be all and end all that it is for a caster, My question is on a luri chanter how much dex is needed to really cap out my cast spd. with a full temp at lvl 50 and 101 dex do i need to be looking at Aug dex as an RA.
Many thanks

 

[Dracus]

You will prolly get a LOT of posts saying different things as there has been SO many tests but most conclude somewhere between 386-403dex and 10%spd is the cap...then its just a matter of what you believe tbh...Im in the 403dex believer catagory, but 385+ will be more than enough to make you happy and the points are often spent better elsewhere than on getting 403.

/Dracus

 

[Raimo]

Well on my elf i need 398 dex to cap mys cast speed ,but i think it should be around 390-400

 

[Boni]

Im under the impression that 387-389 with 9% toa speed makes you cast 99% as fast as anyone. I tested higher aug dex to bring me well past 400 with 10% toa speed but even after many many chain casts the log showed no discernable improvement.

 

[Gibs]

380 is soft cap, anything above that will be very very minimal return

 

[Bladze]

Thanks to all who replied 380+ it is

 

[Stallion]

403 dex brings me to 40,17% of delve speed on the spell.

386 on my runemaster gives me roughly 45% of delve. Difference is notiable.

At low rr as an luri caster, dex3 will be enough, push it to dex4 when raising in rrs.

 

[Bladze]

Cheers Stal

 

[Solari]

Mosts people plays dex3 for luries dex4 for elfs.

Maybe raise the luri dex to 4 endgame but I wouldn't do it.

Personally I find 386 the minimum and 398 tops for what's worth investing in.

As mentioned earlier diffrence is very noticeable.

 

[eSo]

believe it or not, the so called "cap" atleast used to vary depending of the patch - not sure if it's "stable now". for example in one patch it was 386, the next 403 etc. iirc elwizardo did a lot of tests with them. and he's teh man.

 

[Maeloch]

believe it or not, the so called "cap" atleast used to vary depending of the patch - not sure if it's "stable now". for example in one patch it was 386, the next 403 etc.

Well I don't know if it ever really was 386, just that figure got thrown about so much on various forums it stuck in peeps minds. Seems like someone made some assumptions on the dex/cast speed forumula based on some shoddy testing and extrapolated 386 as the dex cap.

From the tests I've seen and done myself, think what's been said is close to the truth - that it caps somewhere just over 400. Now whether it's worth getting aug dex 4 or 5 to get there (assuming you're a high dex race anyhow) is another argument.

 

[Calmin]

No amount of dex is gonna help you Bladze when what you really need is skill!

Try capping that one first buddy

 

[Stallion]

believe it or not, the so called "cap" atleast used to vary depending of the patch - not sure if it's "stable now". for example in one patch it was 386, the next 403 etc. iirc elwizardo did a lot of tests with them. and he's teh man.

cap have never been anything then 40% of delve. What has differed is how you reach it, and yes this has changed once, the dex factor has always been constant, this has never changed. What u had back in the days was the RA called Mastery of the Art, you as an oldie should know this. Mota 3 gave aprox 9% cast boost, mota 4 gave around 11%. You 'capped' at that time with no 10% ToA bonus and roughly same dex as today 40x, but you had no 10% toa bonus. Noone really had 40x dex back then due to beeeing lower rr and no 26 extra dex. So dex was around 386 and less pre ToA. With additional Mota, did they reach cap? No they did not. Today we have no Mota but we have 10% toa bonus and additional higher RR average and 101 from items + capping dex buffs (which we didnt back then).

Alot has changed all except the casting speed cap of 40%. And dex has always had the same formulation as before..

 

[deez]

403 dex brings me to 40,17% of delve speed on the spell.

386 on my runemaster gives me roughly 45% of delve. Difference is notiable.

At low rr as an luri caster, dex3 will be enough, push it to dex4 when raising in rrs.

what rr should that be? :>

 

[Nix]

what rr should that be? :>

RR8L9.

 

[Boni]

Well I don't know if it ever really was 386, just that figure got thrown about so much on various forums it stuck in peeps minds. Seems like someone made some assumptions on the dex/cast speed forumula based on some shoddy testing and extrapolated 386 as the dex cap.

Well I dont know if its changed or not, but 386 is not far from the figure I came up with after extensive testing that I posted. I havent ever seen any decent testing that showed a higher figure ever, anywhere. All ive seen is a lot of people who have a gut feeling or look at other peoples gut feeling posts or calcuators that dont give the correct answer.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate using a repeated cast log to show the improvement in actualy cast speed over 390. Or post a link to such a test.

 

[crispy]

I look at it this way:

dex4 10 pts more than dex 3, so you can you 22 int wich raised dmg alot more than the extra dex would do.

Also did some testing. Seemed like extra dmg pr int was a function of int itself :>

Someone done testing that shows the same?

Was on my animist spec arb nuke btw

 

[Tuthmes]

Think there's a simple calculation for it somewhere. Somewhere around ~386dex you reached the point that in getting more dex, the casting spd would only increase 0.01s (also depending on the spd of the spell itself). About testing, i dunno. Testing has always bin done by the players themself, never have i seen some actual statement by Mythic about swing spd, casting spd, dmg, etc. Then there's the actual lag of the server/fps...
Anyways the disscusion never ends, because Mythic never explains exactly how it works.

 

[Maeloch]

I challenge anyone to demonstrate using a repeated cast log to show the improvement in actualy cast speed over 390. Or post a link to such a test.

Test I remember is at:

http://yaba.ath.cx/daoc/castspeed/castspeed.html

Yeah I know they ain't perfect as test.

Applogies, looking back I didn't show exactly where cast speed cap point was, just that it was between 368 and 417 (kinda obvious anyhow if you played with those extremes of dex; I lost interest in whole subject around that point anyhow, which was taking lot of time pissing about with excel at work).

Turning things on it's head, what evidence have you 386 is cast speed cap? Where this number come from?

 

[Boni]

Just to convice myself im not gimping my dex. Here are the results of a test I have just completed. Anyone can repeat these test themsleves. I have the chat logs and will post them here if anyone doubts or send them.


386 dex
18:38 open.
20:25 closed.
96 casts
107 secs
1.115 sec / cast.
delve 2.5 sec.
target time 1 sec.

397 dex
35:49
37:35
106 secs.
97 casts.
1.093 sec/cast

The first test was 9% toa and 386 dex.
The second is 10% toa and a 397 dex.

So we should see at least a 1% improvement (hell 1% toa bonus + 11ish dex)?

Real difference = 0.022 secs = less than 1% and also about the same value as the refresh rate of a PC.

So although I added 1% to my cast speed from TOA I still didnt get a 1% return even after bumping up my dex. Now given that most of us run from outside the french internet system and operate in the real world where we cant really benefit from a speedup of 0.02 secs given other factors like lag/framerate I think youll see why im not in the 403 crowd.

 

[Boni]

Turning things on it's head, what evidence have you 386 is cast speed cap? Where this number come from?

I tested extensivly when TOA started, there was a period where we had free respecs and I took advantge to fully test all the dex values. Its not so much that there is a hard cap just a point beyond which you wont ever get more than 1% difference, so why try? Why not settle for 386/9% and know your 99% as good as anyone else and plow the other points into something that will affect your performace

 

[Boni]

Test I remember is at:

http://yaba.ath.cx/daoc/castspeed/castspeed.html

Interesting. Looking at those tests kidna proves my points. You see how the graphs go kinda random at and after 390? Some go down some go up... Thats beacause the only difference left in his timings after that is his error, which will always vary a bit from test to test, after all the timing stamps in the logs arent that great

 

[Boni]

Oh and take a nice long look at the red bar he lists, the 4 sec AOE spell. This should reduce error wrt log timings as much as possible. Note how its ok up to 380, 390 is the last noticable improvement, but hes only testing at 10dex intervals, could have got this at 386 say... From 390+ hes flatlined with only errors left to account for the flucation. Hes not getting any improvement from 390+ on that spell, and given that its the most accurate I rest my case on his evidence

 

[Bladze]

No amount of dex is gonna help you Bladze when what you really need is skill!

Try capping that one first buddy

I dont remeber giving my HOT/POM bot permission to speak, I wont want to have do the zips back up on your gimp suit so you cant see, and you keep complaining the little pink ping pong ball hurts your mouth so shusssh now

 

[Calmin]

Well im pretty convinced by the 386ish dex argument.

Less RAs wasted on Aug dex means more spare points for Lifter!

 

[Stallion]

Well im pretty convinced by the 386ish dex argument.

Less RAs wasted on Aug dex means more spare points for Lifter!

will make a test for you later showing quite some difference from what u just posted.. made it already but cant remember where I posted it.

 

[deez]

hehe

RR8L9.

so noone of chars have augdex? poor fellas :<

 

[Tuthmes]

will make a test for you later showing quite some difference from what u just posted.. made it already but cant remember where I posted it.

Still Stajj, do those test include ping/serverlag/fps lag? If you wanted to test it appropriatly you should know the ping and fps you hade on every cast you made. Even making 1000 casts for testing wouldnt cut it.
Anyhow i'm sceptic, untill i see an answer from Mythic itself.

 

[Nix]

Anyhow i'm sceptic, untill i see an answer from Mythic itself.

Quite often Mythic is the worst resource when you want to know about the game mechanics

 

[Shike]

my 8l3 lurichanter is on 390 with dex3 and im quite happy with that tbh, dex4 cost alil much still since chanter need to augment aa and mom and wp and also baod if playing in grps alot (plus at least purge1 imo). Looking at around rr10 to afford dex4.

I had dex4 for a while and sure its nice and I actually do notice a slight difference but.. as said, need v high rank for it to work out properly.