Help House pricing

[Mabs]

looking at a possible house to buy
Went on market last nov for 160k
dropped to 156k a few months ago

survey done, we reckon about 8-10k to bring it up to scratch
cash purchase with no chain, etc

now:-
what should the initial offer be ?

i reckon on 10% off, which is 15.6 -> 140k offer
missus reckons 145k min offer

any thoughts ?
shes convinced 140 is taking the piss, but im not sure especially with the work needed etc

 

[old.Tohtori]

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/front-room-385/248965-gazundered.html

That's a 5k drop, you're talking of a 16k drop.

I'd go with price - cost of repairs, fair and square.

 

[Gumbo]

£132,500, 10%ish below the current asking price. The worst they'll do is laugh at you, or actually at the agent. They will likely give you a clue as to how close you are though.

 

[Mabs]

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/front-room-385/248965-gazundered.html

That's a 5k drop, you're talking of a 16k drop.

I'd go with price - cost of repairs, fair and square.

that was after it was agreed
end of the day, if they accept your first offer, you offered them toomuch (or so im told)

 

[Gumbo]

Precisely. 10% below is the minimum first offer to be honest. If I had the balls, in this climate, I'd go 20% as someone with cash waiting. In fact having read your first post again, it's been up for over almost a year? have a stab at £125k and see how it goes.

Report back

 

[Calaen]

I agree with gumbo, you dont know there situation. They vpuld be gagging for an offer of any size.

 

[old.Tohtori]

that was after it was agreed
end of the day, if they accept your first offer, you offered them toomuch (or so im told)

True, fair point.

But if you want to be fair reduction of costs would work.

..then again, ripping people off is an accepted norm around here, as long as it's not one of the forumites

Otherwise those price cheating motherf*Ckers should die in a fire! Or some other such, not at all over-reacted, bologná.

 

[MYstIC G]

Buying property isn't about being fair. Offer as low as you can to start with, if you know you're prepared to go up then you can go up.

I'd say offer £135,000.00, nearest round 10k over 80% of asking.

Tell you missus anything that you don't pay out is money in your pockets, so why does she want to voluntarily give somebody she doesn't know more than she has to.

Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

 

[Cadiva]

Tell you missus anything that you don't pay out is money in your pockets, so why does she want to voluntarily give somebody she doesn't know more than she has to.

Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

We do know them, well I do at any rate although Mabs doesn't. She is the ex-wife of one of our local posties whose a friend of the family and I also know her reasonably well. I would be embarrassed to offer some of the suggestions given here

I don't want to give her extra money, I want to offer a fair price for what the house is worth. Similar houses which have been modernised are selling around the £180,000 mark on the same street and those which have been extended sell around the £200k mark so getting this house even at £145,000 is still going to be good value.

The surveyor's given us a list of things which he thinks need fixing and valued the property at £150,000.
My suggestion is to offer them 10k off the asking price as some of the things we want to do aren't essentials so aren't really in the £10k worth of work we expect to spend on it.

 

[MYstIC G]

If you know her then you shouldn't buy the property.

Business deals should be all business otherwise they become clouded and costly.

This isn't a nasty thing but the fact that you've said "embarrassed" proves that point.

Surveyor thinks and builders quotations are separate things.

Again, there's no such thing as a "fair" price, Caveat emptor.

 

[ECA]

Agree, would you give someone 10-30k just because they seem like nice people? That's essentially what you're doing here.

In which case, I can PM you my bank details and you can just transfer it to me

 

[Cadelin]

Buying property isn't about being fair. Offer as low as you can to start with, if you know you're prepared to go up then you can go up.

I'd say offer £135,000.00, nearest round 10k over 80% of asking.

Tell you missus anything that you don't pay out is money in your pockets, so why does she want to voluntarily give somebody she doesn't know more than she has to.

Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

This man talks sense.

Some additional comments, the house has been on sale for almost a year and they have only dropped the price 4k. This would indicate that they won't drop much. However if they reject you, you can always raise it a bit and there must be other properties for sale. Having cash upfront in this climate is a huge bonus so look around, there will be someone looking to sell more quickly and will be prepared to take a hit on value to get a quick offer.

 

[Cadiva]

If you know her then you shouldn't buy the property.

Business deals should be all business otherwise they become clouded and costly.

This isn't a nasty thing but the fact that you've said "embarrassed" proves that point.

Surveyor thinks and builders quotations are separate things.

Again, there's no such thing as a "fair" price, Caveat emptor.

They're not close friends but I know them and the town we live in is a small place so everyone's business generally gets out eventually.

I would be embarrassed to offer some of the amounts mentioned here, Mabs wouldn't be and it's his money which is why he's buying it and not me

And I want this house so whether I know them or not doesn't really factor into it, I'd rather not piss about and risk losing it.

The £10k we'll spend on the house isn't all vital works, probably only in the region of £5k is essentials which is why I have no issue with offering them £10k under the current asking price.

This man talks sense.

Some additional comments, the house has been on sale for almost a year and they have only dropped the price 4k. This would indicate that they won't drop much. However if they reject you, you can always raise it a bit and there must be other properties for sale. Having cash upfront in this climate is a huge bonus so look around, there will be someone looking to sell more quickly and will be prepared to take a hit on value to get a quick offer.

There isn't anything even remotely close to this property on the market for the amount of money and the amount of actual floor space we'd get. We've been looking a while and there's nothing else I like or that I would pay anything near the same amount of money for.

Where we live is in the "Golden Triangle" between York, Harrogate and Leeds and property prices are generally higher than the national average because it's a desirable place to live. It's a market town on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales only 11 miles away from Leeds, 9 from Harrogate etc and the demand for houses is quite high. Things are slightly stagnated in the £120k to £180k bracket here but the larger four bedroom homes don't last two minutes, they sell almost as soon as they're listed.

 

[MYstIC G]

It doesn't make any sense though.

If a done up house is going for £180k then why is hers on the market at £156k?

It's on the market for £156k because it is not worth £180k. If it was then somebody would have bought it. Supply and demand. There is no demand so you can be more aggressive with your price.

Anyway taking your premise of £156k - £10k = £146k that should be your absolute maximum offer.

The fact that you want the house shouldn't lead your decision, basic math should. My suggestion is only £10k lower than what should be your maximum offer. When it comes to property £10k is nothing in terms of upping your offer.

£10k in your back pocket though is a lot of hours at work (after tax).

 

[Cadiva]

Ran out of editing time.

The other thing is they're not what the surveyor thinks and what a building contractor says it will cost, my dad's a joiner/builder and cabinet maker and we've got fixed ideas of the price we're going to be paying for the work the house needs doing to it, hence why I said £10k. However, of that £10k only the external rendering, guttering and then internal electronics are "required" work.

The repainting, new flooring, new doors, new bathroom etc are all things WE wish to do not things which are required to make the house liveable. That's why there's a discrepancy between the surveyor's valuation and what I think we should offer. He's valued the house at £150,000 not £155,950 which is what it's on the market for at the moment.

 

[Tom]

The survey will tell you about 5% of the story. What about the roof that needs relaying, the walls whose plaster is crumbling, the well dodgy pipework, the electrics that haven't been touched in 20 years, the bathroom floor that's sagging, the bedroom ceilings that are bowing down.

Don't rely on a survey.

 

[Cadiva]

The survey will tell you about 5% of the story. What about the roof that needs relaying, the walls whose plaster is crumbling, the well dodgy pipework, the electrics that haven't been touched in 20 years, the bathroom floor that's sagging, the bedroom ceilings that are bowing down.

Don't rely on a survey.

I'm not relying on the survey, we've looked at the house twice, the second time with my dad and we got a full building survey not a home buyers one so most of the things you've mentioned ARE in the survey.

The roof was done three years ago, the boiler replaced at the same time, the plasterwork is fine, there's no dodgy pipework and we already know the electrics need checking

 

[kiliarien]

I agree with Cadiva in most respects - after all it's not just the price but everything else you have to be happy with. I'd start at £142,500 and go up from there. Don't forget Estate Agents are generally on the side of the buyer not the seller as it's their commission base.

In context, me and the dear wife (and son) moved from Maidstone, Kent to West Wales abandoning our jobs. Our house was valued at £169,950 (2 bed terrace) and when we got an offer at £163,000 we snapped it up because we had a 3 bed detached property with 3 outbuildings, drive & large garden lined up for only 7 grand more in Wales. We took a risk of accepting a lower offer and it's worked out but if I'd been offered even a bit less then it was a no-go. It's definitely a matter of perspective when it comes to this matter. Your happiness is paramount so remember that!

Start at the offer I said above and work from there in my humble opinion. Standing in the community is important living in a close-knit areas; no sheep shagging jokes please for me in Wales so putting in an offensive offer doesn't sit well for me. Fair but low seems the name of the game.

I hope you get it at and please do keep us posted!!

 

[MYstIC G]

£142.5k isn't low though.

I also don't understand the whole "offended" thing.

If they don't like the offer they don't have to accept it, no harm done.

 

[Cadiva]

It doesn't make any sense though.

If a done up house is going for £180k then why is hers on the market at £156k?

It's on the market for £156k because it is not worth £180k. If it was then somebody would have bought it. Supply and demand. There is no demand so you can be more aggressive with your price.

Anyway taking your premise of £156k - £10k = £146k that should be your absolute maximum offer.

The fact that you want the house shouldn't lead your decision, basic math should. My suggestion is only £10k lower than what should be your maximum offer. When it comes to property £10k is nothing in terms of upping your offer.

£10k in your back pocket though is a lot of hours at work (after tax).

Yes, that's what I said, hers needs work doing on it which is why the original valuation was £160k. She's dropped it £4k in almost 12 months.

I'm surprised it hasn't sold to be honest, I suspect that's more a case that the buy to let market buyers have gone for the ones which don't require the work doing on them so they get a quicker return.

This house, once updated, would probably fetch £180k even in today's market if not more if it was extended or had a conservatory etc.

It isn't worth £180k in its current state no, it needs a bare minimum of £5k spending on it, the £10k figure I've mentioned is what would bring it up the standard I'd expect to live in

My brother, who works for Yorkshire Bank as a mortgage and personal financial advisor, suggested we offer %10 off the asking price which would be £140,000 and which would tie in with the £10k of work required to reach the £150k valuation of the surveyor so £142,500 wouldn't be out of that ball park.

I just think there's making a fair offer and there's taking the piss and I think offering £125k would be taking the piss somewhat, call me old fashioned!

 

[MYstIC G]

If I had something that could fetch me £20k more for £5k worth of work, I'd find a way to get the £5k of work done, even if it took me all my weekends for 6 months.

£20k is more than a huge number of people earn in a year.

I'm gonna shut up before I upset people but this just doesn't add up.

 

[Cadiva]

If I had something that could fetch me £20k more for £5k worth of work, I'd find a way to get the £5k of work done, even if it took me all my weekends for 6 months.

£20k is more than a huge number of people earn in a year.

I'm gonna shut up before I upset people but this just doesn't add up.

They don't have the money to do it up - (without going into details about why I know that).

 

[Chosen]

What Mystic says is very true. You should start the bid as low as possible! The worst thing that happens, is that they say no, which requires you to come up with a higher bid.

You yourself can only win by doing this. Everything you "save" here, it beeing 1k or 10k, will only help you with you're finances to the work that already needs to be done(or a fancy clothing closet to the missus xD)

 

[Cadiva]

(or a fancy clothing closet to the missus xD)

I'll settle for a nice patio and some flower beds

 

[kiliarien]

£142.5k isn't low though.

I also don't understand the whole "offended" thing.

If they don't like the offer they don't have to accept it, no harm done.

I see your point and it isn't that low I agree. You have however forgotten the bit I mentioned about community - small towns and villages etc. means word gets around, and even though it shouldn't that very often includes financial stuff.

Point in question: The house I bought for £170,000. There was another bidder at the same amount by the end but he started at £140,00 even though they'd already reduced from £210,000 originally anyway. They took our bid because we didn't take the piss to begin with (we started at £162,500) and that was their only logic - they live next door on land from their old house. Sometimes this house buying/selling process is highly emotive and I must admit ours was a very specialised example.

If I had something that could fetch me £20k more for £5k worth of work, I'd find a way to get the £5k of work done, even if it took me all my weekends for 6 months.

£20k is more than a huge number of people earn in a year.

I'm gonna shut up before I upset people but this just doesn't add up.

I like your perspective, damn right on the earning thing! It does depend if you have the skills to do it that cheaply or if you have people who will give you 'mates rates' in the trade. Also there's a house in the village I'm in that's lost £15,000 in the last 3 months due to water ingression so as I said before it's all perspective, emotion and in that case bad bloody luck!!

 

[Ch3tan]

If you want it , pay what you think it's worth.

That's how the market works.

 

[Tom]

I'm not relying on the survey, we've looked at the house twice, the second time with my dad and we got a full building survey not a home buyers one so most of the things you've mentioned ARE in the survey.

The roof was done three years ago, the boiler replaced at the same time, the plasterwork is fine, there's no dodgy pipework and we already know the electrics need checking

How do you know the plasterwork is fine, until you start removing wallpaper, plug sockets and the like? Ditto with pipework.

Surveys are a load of shite, they tell you the bleeding obvious but miss the important things. Surveyors can't peel back carpets or crawl around under the floor.

No matter what your surveyor says, I guarantee you'll find all kinds of issues the seller is only too keen not to mention.

 

[DaGaffer]

£140K for a house. Depressed

 

[Fafnir]

£140K for a house. Depressed

Yup, when i was moving away from my parents i was looking for aparntments in same town, cheapest was 97.000 Euro for 32 square meters, with not a straight wall inside, if i had put my bed in half apartment would have gone. Found laster the apartment i bought in a town 15 min away with train, got it for 17.000 euro for 64 square meters, with a 8 square meters storage just outside the door. They wanted 25.000 but manage to haggle down since they had already bought their new apartment.

 

[Cadiva]

How do you know the plasterwork is fine, until you start removing wallpaper, plug sockets and the like? Ditto with pipework.

Surveys are a load of shite, they tell you the bleeding obvious but miss the important things. Surveyors can't peel back carpets or crawl around under the floor.

No matter what your surveyor says, I guarantee you'll find all kinds of issues the seller is only too keen not to mention.

Urm, because I've SEEN it. I'm not an idiot and my father has 50 years experience as a joiner/builder and cabinet maker and has also looked at the house. And, actually, yes the surveyor can peel back carpets, he's done so and given us the photographic evidence in his report.
As I said before, everything we had already picked up on has been included in his full building survey but he has also picked up on things we hadn't seen or thought about, including insulation in the loft as an example.

I expect things to get missed, no-one gets the full picture of a house until they move into it but having done up this flat which required EVERYTHING doing to it including wiring, plumbing, plasterwork, flooring and gas pipes being moved, I'm fairly sure the work on the house we want to buy is mostly cosmetic.