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Shike
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- #31
what about Enchanters?
what about Enchanters?
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Cuchuluhain
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- #32
I dunno, I think its something about being able to debuff one of their own damage types. I think its really a reflex whine left over from about oh, 8 patches back when enchanters were quite powerful, you know when they hadnt fixed the LOS issue with pets, and they could debuff for one of their own damage types, even tho that line wasnt the main spec.
Oh yes and focus shield, the prime complaint of a lot of pve'rs, never mind that I think its theurgs get the same shield but it can be cast on other players. All old whines from long ago that are repeated an nauseum as the same people hold onto the same grudges like a toddler holding onto a puke stained, sh*t stinking blanket because its their very favourite thing.
The rest of us move on to looking at the -current- problems, namely being that necros are still fucked, bonedancers need tweaked, archer classes are mostly ignored, savages need nerfsledgehammering, pallys need an ice cream buff, mercs need a little tweak, wardens need more spec points, bards need to lose the big fat 'kill me now' instruments, etc etc etc.
Ps duckies, when was the last time you saw a melee char unable to swing their weapons because someone poked them with a small pointy stick?
If savages were only able to self buff, you`d have a balanced class, its when they get loaded up with omfgbuffbotbuffs4tehwin buffs that they become -too- powerful. Im sure its all very fun and l33t and powahfool to run around with an `I win class` (never had one, never want one), but I'd rather, actually you know, have a decent scrap.
Oh btw Mids, Im not complaining about you hitting us with 150 at Bled, more that it looked like somewhere around 1/3 of the entire force were savages (pointy things on their hands, no shields/ swords/ axes/ hammers). When 1 class is that dominant, then theres something amiss with the realm.... (ps, Id rather other classes got a boost, than savages got nerfed into oblivion)
Oh yes and focus shield, the prime complaint of a lot of pve'rs, never mind that I think its theurgs get the same shield but it can be cast on other players. All old whines from long ago that are repeated an nauseum as the same people hold onto the same grudges like a toddler holding onto a puke stained, sh*t stinking blanket because its their very favourite thing.
The rest of us move on to looking at the -current- problems, namely being that necros are still fucked, bonedancers need tweaked, archer classes are mostly ignored, savages need nerfsledgehammering, pallys need an ice cream buff, mercs need a little tweak, wardens need more spec points, bards need to lose the big fat 'kill me now' instruments, etc etc etc.
Ps duckies, when was the last time you saw a melee char unable to swing their weapons because someone poked them with a small pointy stick?
If savages were only able to self buff, you`d have a balanced class, its when they get loaded up with omfgbuffbotbuffs4tehwin buffs that they become -too- powerful. Im sure its all very fun and l33t and powahfool to run around with an `I win class` (never had one, never want one), but I'd rather, actually you know, have a decent scrap.
Oh btw Mids, Im not complaining about you hitting us with 150 at Bled, more that it looked like somewhere around 1/3 of the entire force were savages (pointy things on their hands, no shields/ swords/ axes/ hammers). When 1 class is that dominant, then theres something amiss with the realm.... (ps, Id rather other classes got a boost, than savages got nerfed into oblivion)
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Lochlyessa
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- #33
You mean like they still can debuff their own damage? and still can in 1.65?
Hm, not even gonna ask where you got the idea that theurgists got a realm castable 33 dps dmg shield, but nm.. wiz's get a 3 dps realm castable dmg shield, and cabalists get the same pet focus shield as chanters.
Hm, heh.. pala's are fine atm, mercs are good also, though nowhere near inline with savages, but who is?.. Not sure why wardens would need more spec points, since they can get last pbt, resists, taunt and 42 regrowth with 1.5.. and bards are a bit fucked with end song, but if you think they're bad, try playing with your main cc in cloth.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #34
Originally posted by Fafnir
Dont mess with the best.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHA
MAKE MORE SAVAGES AND CONTROL THEM MORE WITH ARROWS FOR MOVEMENT IMO!!1
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Shike
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- #35
I just think that anyone complaining about a caster today is blatantly silly and should get a clue...
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zapzap
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- #36
About 150 lvl 50 savage on prydwen doubt 1/3 was savage then.
Guess u see what u wanna see.
Zapsi
Guess u see what u wanna see.
Zapsi
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Derric
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- #37
I see popcorn.I like popcorn.MmmMmm, popcorn.
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #38
Yes, it was a quality piece of pioneering synth music.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #39
xDD
look at the amount of savages in the frontiers, stats dont mean shit (look at the # of necro's for example)
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Derric
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- #40
Jesus,haven't heard that song in ages..better download it and annoy me on it a while. o0
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Cuchuluhain
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- #41
the debuffs now last 15sec and are subject to worse resists now, especially with everyone sc'd out the arse. With the resist changes in 1.64/1.65 the debuffs will be less effective again, last about 15 seconds and still not be all that worthwhile.
a DD in rvr is maybe 150 damage on a well kitted tank, 250 if debuffed, so lets say in that 15 sec you can throw 8 dds.
actually no, if youre in range to debuff, youre maybe 8 seconds away from getting smashed in the face by any tank, 5 if they have any kind of speed, so the caster gets 3 shots off, maybe 750 damage, or about 40% of the tanks hp, if they dont get healed, up trundles the tank and *splutch* goes the caster.
so whats the hang up over debuffing your own damage type, isnt that roughly what styles do for tanks? slow / bleed / etc etc etc
It was very much a casters game for long months, but now the balance is very much in favour of the tanks, overly so.
a DD in rvr is maybe 150 damage on a well kitted tank, 250 if debuffed, so lets say in that 15 sec you can throw 8 dds.
actually no, if youre in range to debuff, youre maybe 8 seconds away from getting smashed in the face by any tank, 5 if they have any kind of speed, so the caster gets 3 shots off, maybe 750 damage, or about 40% of the tanks hp, if they dont get healed, up trundles the tank and *splutch* goes the caster.
so whats the hang up over debuffing your own damage type, isnt that roughly what styles do for tanks? slow / bleed / etc etc etc
It was very much a casters game for long months, but now the balance is very much in favour of the tanks, overly so.
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Lochlyessa
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- #42
Heh.. oka, i'll try not to be rude while calling you a newb, gimme a sec..
Chanter debuffs for 62% resist, assuming the tank hasn't got em3, thats the tank into -% heat resist..
Stun prolly isn't worth casting, because of det4+, but it might stick for 3s or so on a lower tank..
Chanter then nukes once every second.. (1.5s if unbuffed) for normally 666+, because of the negative resists.
So... using your figures of 8 seconds away.. thats either
a) (buffed vs buffed) 4800+ dmg vs 2400 life or
b) (unbuffed vs unbuffed), say 500 dmg every cast cos of no int buff.. hell, let's say 400.. thats 1.6k dmg vs 1.6k life, and the chanter still has qc left for say, a qc pbaoe to finish the tank off.
Not forgetting the chain snaring pet ofc, meaning the chanter, if 1v1, could just kite the tank w/o ever getting close to being hit..
Casters are poor atm, mostly because of det, and resists.. chanters can ignore one of those problems with resist debuffs..
It's when you get assist trains on hib mages that it starts to look painful, however.. pets on clerics/healers, even 1 chanter moc pbaoe.. ooh looky daddy, lotssa dead tanks \o/
Mage groups are as viable as tank groups atm, if you've got some skills and experience. From your previous comments, I do hate to say that you have neither.
Chanter debuffs for 62% resist, assuming the tank hasn't got em3, thats the tank into -% heat resist..
Stun prolly isn't worth casting, because of det4+, but it might stick for 3s or so on a lower tank..
Chanter then nukes once every second.. (1.5s if unbuffed) for normally 666+, because of the negative resists.
So... using your figures of 8 seconds away.. thats either
a) (buffed vs buffed) 4800+ dmg vs 2400 life or
b) (unbuffed vs unbuffed), say 500 dmg every cast cos of no int buff.. hell, let's say 400.. thats 1.6k dmg vs 1.6k life, and the chanter still has qc left for say, a qc pbaoe to finish the tank off.
Not forgetting the chain snaring pet ofc, meaning the chanter, if 1v1, could just kite the tank w/o ever getting close to being hit..
Casters are poor atm, mostly because of det, and resists.. chanters can ignore one of those problems with resist debuffs..
It's when you get assist trains on hib mages that it starts to look painful, however.. pets on clerics/healers, even 1 chanter moc pbaoe.. ooh looky daddy, lotssa dead tanks \o/
Mage groups are as viable as tank groups atm, if you've got some skills and experience. From your previous comments, I do hate to say that you have neither.
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Edlina
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- #43
Mage groups are more difficult to play, maybe much more difficult, however they are as loch say just as viable as tank groups in rvr, furthermore they are quite complex to make in Albion and Midgard but a Hibernian caster groups is as powerful as the other realms tank groups, just takes a liddul more skill to play to maximum potential.
Usually run with 4 casters (1 bard 2 druids 1 shield hero 2 elds (1 mana 1 void) and 2 chanters if mezz lands on enemy first and all 4 assists that's about 4* 600 dmg (540 average dmg from dd and add to that some crits) ie. 2400dmg + a str/con debuff, usually enough to finish off any tank in 2.5sec (1.3-1.5 sec casttime for each nuke and 1 sec extra for the MA chanter casting debuff + others assisting him). That's almost as fast as savage assist trains kill support. However interrupts really does ruin it for caster groups + the need for power.
That's in fg vs fg ofc, oh and 3 casters casting baseline dd on heat debuffed target are usually enough to kill any support/caster (1800dmg + 200 from str/con debuff)
Alone casters are very weak, it's just like a tank not sticking to the assist train, it won't kill anything but by assisting it can be very powerful, and there's pbaoe for defence. (some hib groups like to use pbaoe for offence but that's really very silly unless fighting a zerg)
Usually run with 4 casters (1 bard 2 druids 1 shield hero 2 elds (1 mana 1 void) and 2 chanters if mezz lands on enemy first and all 4 assists that's about 4* 600 dmg (540 average dmg from dd and add to that some crits) ie. 2400dmg + a str/con debuff, usually enough to finish off any tank in 2.5sec (1.3-1.5 sec casttime for each nuke and 1 sec extra for the MA chanter casting debuff + others assisting him). That's almost as fast as savage assist trains kill support. However interrupts really does ruin it for caster groups + the need for power.
That's in fg vs fg ofc, oh and 3 casters casting baseline dd on heat debuffed target are usually enough to kill any support/caster (1800dmg + 200 from str/con debuff)
Alone casters are very weak, it's just like a tank not sticking to the assist train, it won't kill anything but by assisting it can be very powerful, and there's pbaoe for defence. (some hib groups like to use pbaoe for offence but that's really very silly unless fighting a zerg)
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Eroda
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- #44
We're currently trying an alb pbaoe group. It works sometimes, it doesn't others but we still have some fun
I still feel that alb is at a disadvantage in this area due to the wizards lack of utility compared to other pbaoe classes. Still, we're gonna stick at it
I still feel that alb is at a disadvantage in this area due to the wizards lack of utility compared to other pbaoe classes. Still, we're gonna stick at it
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Maleg_Grumpton
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- #45
Playing Void Eld at the moment, Cuch's figures seem way on the low side, Loch's figures a tad on the high side.
Generally I hit for 250 ish on a well kitted out tank with baseline heat or cold nuke (cold better for non-debuffed targets due to specline - better power consumption and damge). If a Mana Chanter Debuffs then I average about 550 ish (I'm low RR with no passives). All these exclude any crits.
PBAoE, well varies how that hits, but with energy debuffs you can hit cap on that if the tank is at the centre of the PB area (950 ish i believe).
Simple fact is mages are still viable RvR (more so for Hibs), however they're harder than tank groups to play well and a dam site more frustrating.
Is the game tiped towards melee at the moment, well yes, do mages in general need a little loving, also think yes. Do Savages hit for silly amounts, yes.
As for Alb mage group, well think most of Albs problems would actually be solved by a 10 person group - utility is spread out over too many classes.
Generally I hit for 250 ish on a well kitted out tank with baseline heat or cold nuke (cold better for non-debuffed targets due to specline - better power consumption and damge). If a Mana Chanter Debuffs then I average about 550 ish (I'm low RR with no passives). All these exclude any crits.
PBAoE, well varies how that hits, but with energy debuffs you can hit cap on that if the tank is at the centre of the PB area (950 ish i believe).
Simple fact is mages are still viable RvR (more so for Hibs), however they're harder than tank groups to play well and a dam site more frustrating.
Is the game tiped towards melee at the moment, well yes, do mages in general need a little loving, also think yes. Do Savages hit for silly amounts, yes.
As for Alb mage group, well think most of Albs problems would actually be solved by a 10 person group - utility is spread out over too many classes.
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Shike
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- #46
heh, I find our little castergroup pretty fun tbh, its hard as hell but we do oke I guess. Interrupts and the manaconsumption is abnorm atm though. Sure manachanters can nuke hard, I do 538 with every nuke I have landed a heatdebuff beforehand but the cost of doing this is silly, I run oop very very fast and what you said about moc isnt really true loch, 2xx to 5xx is what PBAoE do normally undebuffed from a moccing manachanter (im low RR tho so expect this to be higher at rr7+ somewhere where I can afford fluffRAs to increase damages) and hardly kill tanks as easy as you seem to think it is. Debuffed PBAoE though, that really hurts alot. MoC is nice too though mids with 3 healers nullifie this easy since they have aoelul as baseline in pacification and a good sorc that open with 1875ranged mezz and continue to lul when needed or just force casters to moc with spamming aoemez/aoeroot and then lul pretty much destroy us atm and its hard to find a way around it tbh, when we get the drop we can usually do well but when we get jumped upon we mostly loose since we are too fragile vs tanks that kite us while CC is suppressing us with aoe. Not to mention aoedots... !!! damn I hate shamans
A good tankgrp have very good tools to deal with casters in the form of weaponstuns that last for full duration, aoeinterrupts on primary CCclasses and quite alot of classes out there have some form of instant interrupt while they charge casters.
Castergroup on the other hand struggle with tankgroups atm since CC doesnt work, resists are skyhigh and outright resists (ie spell neglected) is also very common. Buffed I have 1424HPs with my luri, a savage did 1157 damage to me in SCd gear and fully buffed within 1.5seconds and thats not very uncommon and is very hard to deal with so I hope that nerf to savages is bringing them back to balance somewhat at least.
Nice to see you out there every time Eroda keep on going
A good tankgrp have very good tools to deal with casters in the form of weaponstuns that last for full duration, aoeinterrupts on primary CCclasses and quite alot of classes out there have some form of instant interrupt while they charge casters.
Castergroup on the other hand struggle with tankgroups atm since CC doesnt work, resists are skyhigh and outright resists (ie spell neglected) is also very common. Buffed I have 1424HPs with my luri, a savage did 1157 damage to me in SCd gear and fully buffed within 1.5seconds and thats not very uncommon and is very hard to deal with so I hope that nerf to savages is bringing them back to balance somewhat at least.
Nice to see you out there every time Eroda
keep on going
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Lochlyessa
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- #47
Heh, I'm not normally stood in pbaoe so not sure on dmg, all I know is, normally takes ~3 mana bars + group instants for both clerics vs NP, who are mostly ~2 rr's below us Oo
Anyway, chanter > most 1v1, was my point
Anyway, chanter > most 1v1, was my point
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Cuchuluhain
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- #48
Oh no, Ive no experience...
just been playing the game since beta, 50 druid 50 ranger, other high level alts (not a powerleveller, Im playing this for fun), not a huge RvR fan either, Cuchuluhain is only 4L7 after all, siobhian only 3l1 or so. (bored to tears of RvR for the most part), oh and played various other 50s in rvr too, naming no names to avoid getting them in trouble, but Ive run just about every char Hib has to offer.
I mean, Im not in Hibernian Dragon Slayers with Usp or anything, and Ive not run tests with chanters nuking against other tanks, nor have I run tests on various mobs either. Ive only been around chanters since the get go, so obviously I know nothing compared to oh .. someone from another realm or anything (have 45 chanter of my own, built from scratch, never bothered to level it hardcore styleee)
Common chanter spec is 4 ench 20 light 50 mana, the light DD scores I put up are probably a little low, 250 a shot is doable, casting speed is still going to be around 1.5-2sec unless youre in a massively buffbotted group / high RR, 1 sec is do-able, but not for a fledgling chanter.
Lets run it again Chanter group runs into lets say a savage fotm group, now without the asd spam. Clip range, they close to stun/mez range, chanters sick their pets who run off and start debuffing / nuking for varying amounts. Given that melee resists cap at 26-30(racial) and magic resists can be anywhere from 0 to 55ish, chanter one fires a light DD at the nearest threat for lets say 275 (-175) damage, every 1.5 sec, in 8 seconds thats about 1k damage (allowing for variance), even if the healers dont heal / are distracted /interrupted by the pet or they dont chug a potion thats still half hps. Half hps gets to the chanter, squish goes the chanter.
But wait, the caster can MOC, well they have to have moc and thats how many realm levels again? Yeah, quite a few. Oh and Moc gets interrupted too, how fun, lets not even mention being diseased or dotted or smashed in the face by a nice savage train. Or a nice series of interruptions with AOE mez or AoE stun, so to recap the enchanter, unless of high rr, with high quality kit and lucky, is shagged. Maybe they all focus on one savage, assist nuking, well theyll drop one, maybe 2 before they get close, but the rest will get through and thats the cat amongst the pigeons (quick PR and up pops Savage again)
But thats a fotm group, vs a Alb group, the tables are much more level, its a much more even fight (and fun one). The casters will nuke off against each other (or volcanic pillar), the tank/guard will engage and everyone will have fun blowing the shit out of each other, well til a chanter puts up BOAD and becomes almost immune to nuke damage. But thats ok the albs can SoS and get the hell out of dodge, this situation the albs not having insta aoe cc hurts them a great deal.
Been around from highs and lows, when archers ruled, to when chanters were king of the hill to now where it really is tank dominated. The current interrupt system is a joke, the resist system is a joke on all fronts, determination is unbalanced with some classes that have it shouldnt have it and some classes that dont should, buffs need looked at. Too many elitists out there, too many fotms, too many bug abusers, rvr just aint that fun for -me-. I respect those who can plug away at it, hour after hour after hour, but I do know my arse from my elbow and I do understand the game.
Ps Loch, Im not offended by the noob comment, youre a well rated player, have crossed blades a few times /respect.
pps Hrod, I promise I wont dot you again, I respecced out of nature a while back, its safe to wave at me in emain now.
just been playing the game since beta, 50 druid 50 ranger, other high level alts (not a powerleveller, Im playing this for fun), not a huge RvR fan either, Cuchuluhain is only 4L7 after all, siobhian only 3l1 or so. (bored to tears of RvR for the most part), oh and played various other 50s in rvr too, naming no names to avoid getting them in trouble, but Ive run just about every char Hib has to offer.
I mean, Im not in Hibernian Dragon Slayers with Usp or anything, and Ive not run tests with chanters nuking against other tanks, nor have I run tests on various mobs either. Ive only been around chanters since the get go, so obviously I know nothing compared to oh .. someone from another realm or anything (have 45 chanter of my own, built from scratch, never bothered to level it hardcore styleee)
Common chanter spec is 4 ench 20 light 50 mana, the light DD scores I put up are probably a little low, 250 a shot is doable, casting speed is still going to be around 1.5-2sec unless youre in a massively buffbotted group / high RR, 1 sec is do-able, but not for a fledgling chanter.
Lets run it again Chanter group runs into lets say a savage fotm group, now without the asd spam. Clip range, they close to stun/mez range, chanters sick their pets who run off and start debuffing / nuking for varying amounts. Given that melee resists cap at 26-30(racial) and magic resists can be anywhere from 0 to 55ish, chanter one fires a light DD at the nearest threat for lets say 275 (-175) damage, every 1.5 sec, in 8 seconds thats about 1k damage (allowing for variance), even if the healers dont heal / are distracted /interrupted by the pet or they dont chug a potion thats still half hps. Half hps gets to the chanter, squish goes the chanter.
But wait, the caster can MOC, well they have to have moc and thats how many realm levels again? Yeah, quite a few. Oh and Moc gets interrupted too, how fun, lets not even mention being diseased or dotted or smashed in the face by a nice savage train. Or a nice series of interruptions with AOE mez or AoE stun, so to recap the enchanter, unless of high rr, with high quality kit and lucky, is shagged. Maybe they all focus on one savage, assist nuking, well theyll drop one, maybe 2 before they get close, but the rest will get through and thats the cat amongst the pigeons (quick PR and up pops Savage again)
But thats a fotm group, vs a Alb group, the tables are much more level, its a much more even fight (and fun one). The casters will nuke off against each other (or volcanic pillar), the tank/guard will engage and everyone will have fun blowing the shit out of each other, well til a chanter puts up BOAD and becomes almost immune to nuke damage. But thats ok the albs can SoS and get the hell out of dodge, this situation the albs not having insta aoe cc hurts them a great deal.
Been around from highs and lows, when archers ruled, to when chanters were king of the hill to now where it really is tank dominated. The current interrupt system is a joke, the resist system is a joke on all fronts, determination is unbalanced with some classes that have it shouldnt have it and some classes that dont should, buffs need looked at. Too many elitists out there, too many fotms, too many bug abusers, rvr just aint that fun for -me-. I respect those who can plug away at it, hour after hour after hour, but I do know my arse from my elbow and I do understand the game.
Ps Loch, Im not offended by the noob comment, youre a well rated player, have crossed blades a few times /respect.
pps Hrod, I promise I wont dot you again, I respecced out of nature a while back, its safe to wave at me in emain now.
P
Petronella
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- #49
exactly.
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rionnen
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- #50
if savages need such a big nerf, how come my 50 troll sword warrior in epic armour without capped anything managed to beat a fully sc'd h2h troll savage? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm i got skills? or albs / hibs jus not know how to kill a savage?
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Dumle
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- #51
Not to critisize as you have played for very much longer than me and all just want to point out a couple of things about this
Yes casters pay alot for MoC that is true, exactly as much as healers do to have it
. Healers can be disturbed too so that they cannot heal, in that case they need MoC too (same cost).If they focus and manage to drop 2 savages and the "rest" get through then in 99% of the cases the "rest" is one, how many savvys you think we fit in one grp
If one savage gets through then hes lunch for the PBAoE.Yes they can pop a PR, but that costs almost as much as MoC, so for your theory to work you cannot be fighting a low RR grp, rather a high RR guild grp, and if that is the case the higher RR guild grp is likely to win even without savages. Simply because of experience working together as a team and knowing eachothers actions well.
I dare say, If played right a savage assist train grp cannot beat a Hib PBAoE grp (of same RR), there is simply too much damage once they reach the core of casters they need to hit.
As I said, not been playing all that long, but this is my view of it. I agree that savages are very tough but some ppl should maybe put as much energy into finding a way to beat the FOTM grps as they do whining about them, they are not unbeatable
RvR is a thinking mans game as much as any other part of the game, there are always ways to beat the odds, just need the right tactics applied at the right time, thats where experience comes into play (that I lack so far but Im getting there
)Anyways, only my point of view and it might change over time, who knows
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Edlina
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- #52
Dueling have nothing to do with RvR! nub 
Zapsi people do see what they want to see, but they also see that which kills them in no time usually doing 400-1100dmg every 1.5seconds.
Chuch like tanks assists casters must assist, 1on1 is totally difference fg vs fg = assisting = tanks dead in 1 nuke per caster + a heat debuff and str/con debuff.
Dumle people know how to deal with savages best, and it still isn't good enough
ie. svgs = overpowered. Maybe you should find a better way to deal with hib pbaoe grps if your savage grps looses to them.
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Cuchuluhain
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- #53
Agreed, there -are- ways to beat savage groups (the 3 healer, shammy skald 3 savage layout), the trick is time.
IF you have the time, you can throw all kinds of wonderful things at them, you can debuff with an eldy and theyre mincemeat for the pbaoe.
IF however, they get the drop on you, goodnight vienna, theyre on top of you faster than Hrod into a tub of Walls French Vanilla. Youre hit and dead before you can say `whaddafyck?`, this goes for classes in more than just cloth armour, you`d think Id live long enough to get off an insta or two when jumped, 1850 odd hp buffed in reinf, sc'd and mostly alchy`d armour and I get steam rolled in a hurry by savages (I live a bit longer vs Alb tanks, it must be said).
A combination of a devestatingly powerful class, with organisation and -some- skill, leads to a dangerous proposition. To compete you have to be more powerful (no melee class is, some mage classes might be), more organised, well Ill give Mid this they have some extremely well run rvr groups Alb seems to be lacking in that regard and Hibs just got a decent influx of them, or much more skilled Alb and Hib do have those players, but most are either tired of being savraped or are off on another server doing the savraping.
As for pointing out that your warrior beat a savage, thats nice, Ive beaten Heros, champions, the odd ranger (never a NS), bards, chanters and eldys (not mentys) and occasionally Blade masters with the druid. Application of abilities and knowing how to counter them is the key in duels, and inter-realm duels arent representative of how a char performs vs the other realms.
The stats from the US servers and the Euro servers all show the same thing, the Savage is -the- dominant tank. The developer chats and info read back that more nerfs to the class were planned then stopped, but are under consideration. Still would rather see other classes boosted to a competitive level, than one being nerfed into the dirt (poor zerkers)
IF you have the time, you can throw all kinds of wonderful things at them, you can debuff with an eldy and theyre mincemeat for the pbaoe.
IF however, they get the drop on you, goodnight vienna, theyre on top of you faster than Hrod into a tub of Walls French Vanilla. Youre hit and dead before you can say `whaddafyck?`, this goes for classes in more than just cloth armour, you`d think Id live long enough to get off an insta or two when jumped, 1850 odd hp buffed in reinf, sc'd and mostly alchy`d armour and I get steam rolled in a hurry by savages (I live a bit longer vs Alb tanks, it must be said).
A combination of a devestatingly powerful class, with organisation and -some- skill, leads to a dangerous proposition. To compete you have to be more powerful (no melee class is, some mage classes might be), more organised, well Ill give Mid this they have some extremely well run rvr groups Alb seems to be lacking in that regard and Hibs just got a decent influx of them, or much more skilled Alb and Hib do have those players, but most are either tired of being savraped or are off on another server doing the savraping.
As for pointing out that your warrior beat a savage, thats nice, Ive beaten Heros, champions, the odd ranger (never a NS), bards, chanters and eldys (not mentys) and occasionally Blade masters with the druid. Application of abilities and knowing how to counter them is the key in duels, and inter-realm duels arent representative of how a char performs vs the other realms.
The stats from the US servers and the Euro servers all show the same thing, the Savage is -the- dominant tank. The developer chats and info read back that more nerfs to the class were planned then stopped, but are under consideration. Still would rather see other classes boosted to a competitive level, than one being nerfed into the dirt (poor zerkers)
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Dumle
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- Thread starter
- #54
Originally posted by Edlina
Dumle people know how to deal with savages best, and it still isn't good enough
Maybe there is still a better way, how can one be sure? Not arguing the fact that savages are too strong atm, just saying that they are not unbeatable.
Hmmm, I dont run in savage grps, I find the setup of only one class kinda boring
, and Im low RR so the chances of my semi pickup grp (couple of r/l friends and me filling up grp with other ppl most of the time) beating a hib PBAE grp with high RR and knows what they are doing are kinda slim However we are trying to find a way and will be happy if we win once for starters
Still win or loose dont really matter if the fight was good
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Dumle
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- #55
Not arguing with you there, completely true
Here I am sad to say I must disagree, when one class becomes overly powerful it actually IMO is better to nerf the one than to boost the others because....
Scenario 1: To counter the damage output of one class they increase the armorfact/absorb/resists so that the overpowered class does less damage. This will cause other classes to do even less damage against their targets and absolutely force everyone to play the overpowered class to do any damage at all.
Scenario 2: They increase other classes damageoutput to compete with (in this case) savages. This will make for incredibly boring RvR, imagine all melee classes doing roughly the same damage as savages. Every fight will be over within seconds.
Scenario 3: They do both of the above... End result of that would be exactly as the start, but with higher numbers in (-120) damage
So better to fix the unbalanced class then to change the game around them IMO.
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amazingsteve
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- #56
tried fighting savage groups with a very experienced group, and quite often we still got our ass handed on a plate. savage assist=dead mages. Getting hit for 450 by 3 savages=dead mage.
Basically it is -assistbutton- -stick- -style-