Here's something from Mark Jacob's blog...

[arknor]

I agree, It seems a very very unwise thing to say at such a time, but also when GOA get irl death threats, racist abuse etc, those are also things that are not to be "bandied about lightly".

ianc needs to learn its the internet 99.99% of threats on here mean bugger all and there from some stupid punk kid whos still waiting for puberty.

 

[Xandax]

Of course "death treats" and what not are innapropiate, but I mean - come on - where have people been the last 10 years on the Internet. It isn't acceptable but seriously a lot of what happens on the web isn't acceptable. Heck - people will post "death treats" on forums over a disagreement of semantics.
It is hardly as if they stand outside their home yelling them.
Now if the threats were made personally, they are a matter for the law - not the customers!

Fact of the matter is we have here a company which had a poor reputation of customers relations and competence level to many, they've been taken in lying and spinning information to get it to appear as if they were on top of things. And then they screwed up royally after many attempts to appear "on top of things".
People get annoyed, people mistrust them, people wanted answers - and yes - idiots post things the real world wouldn't.

HOWEVER - I, the customers, do not care that some idiots perhaps have mailed GOA. Just like I do not care that some idiot have delivered death treats or physical harm to some other dweeb over an internet forum (lest I'm moderating).
I, the customer, wants answer on how it could become such a royal mess, how their planning could screw up so bad when everybody said it was stupid, why we are lied to, fed spin etc, when claiming to be "a new company". And most of all - I, the customer, want reassurance that it....will...not...happen ..... again.

And then when IainC posts something like that, basically initially labeling most of the people complaining as sociopath and "something wrong with us", then I feel the guy has lost all credibility. That he afterwards - after 40 minutes changes it because he (or somebody else) can see it is a out of line remark to include some events we have absolutely no control over - I wonder why the heck we - the customers - should have that information?

What can we do? I can't stop people from acting like idiots - but I will also not stop complaining about issues like this because people act like idiots.

That remark have done nothing what so ever, besides giving trolls ammunition either to flame/troll those who are complaining or vice versa.

IainC dropped the ball with that remark, and it just goes to show the unprofessional level of GOA combined with all the other "spin" and "rhetoric" they have posted online the last period of time in an attempt to - well mislead us.

So in conclusion, yes - stupid people do stupid things. But we have no control over stupid people, we aren't affiliated with stupid people, so don't lump legit complains into that category.
This post by IaniC looks nothing more like an attempt to get the legit and justified heat off himself and GOA and point finger and blame at some undefined group of people.

 

[Succi]

Ianc's post was terrible. An idiot in player support/CM knows 'digs' like that at already infuriated players is both completely unprofessional and suicidal for a company's rep.

He clearly isnt up to the job.

 

[Soraellion]

Ianc's post was terrible. An idiot in player support/CM knows 'digs' like that at already infuriated players is both completely unprofessional and suicidal for a company's rep.

He clearly isnt up to the job.

While not at all being happy with how GOA has performed, some posts were just vile and nasty. I have outed my anger and dissapointment as well but there's a limit, and the limit was crossed by some.

We want GOA to communicate better and more open, One of the CM's then (finally) posts something that has truth in it, going BOTH ways.... and now all of a sudden people are angry at him putting people in place who went completely over the line?

As I see it what he posted there was true, and just fine.

 

[Succi]

While not at all being happy with how GOA has performed, some posts were just vile and nasty. I have outed my anger and dissapointment as well but there's a limit, and the limit was crossed by some.

We want GOA to communicate better and more open, One of the CM's then (finally) posts something that has truth in it, going BOTH ways.... and now all of a sudden people are angry at him putting people in place who went completely over the line?

As I see it what he posted there was true, and just fine.

you are reading the edited version of the post.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1384927#post1384927

 

[Xandax]

While not at all being happy with how GOA has performed, some posts were just vile and nasty. I have outed my anger and dissapointment as well but there's a limit, and the limit was crossed by some.

We want GOA to communicate better and more open, One of the CM's then (finally) posts something that has truth in it, going BOTH ways.... and now all of a sudden people are angry at him putting people in place who went completely over the line?

As I see it what he posted there was true, and just fine.

Better and more open communication deals with the issues of peoples complain. Not with the people who can't behave - they should just be ignored, as everybody know that is how some act on-line.

We still know nothing off how GOA will ensure this mess doesn't happen again come head start? 5 days from now. Where the "it is only beta" excuse is completely invalid.
They haven't even got control over their OB control center yet.
5 days for the real game. And then IainC rants about things few people have control over.

Sorry - that post from him was a huge waste of time.

 

[Soraellion]

Yes, I know.

There's a difference between being angry, frustrated and in the mood to kick your cat... and threatening to burn down someone's house and have personal threats involved.

The first one is ok, we all had that and it was understandable but the SECOND people start posting personal threats the line is crossed, THAT simple. No excuses, no leniency. People who feel they need to post filth like that DO lack a certain form of restraint, there's no other way to put it.

 

[Evoknox]

This is gonna be the first time I let myself out in a negative way about GOA. They had their chance, they failed, so I feel I have the right.

IanC makes for a shit community manager. He absolutely tries as hard as he can to make the community more pissed than they already are. He is constantly defending himself hiding behind his death threats (how serious do you take a death threat on a forum, even I have gotten those) and the only thing he says is that we have to be patient.

He's just rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

[Heta]

if you get that mad over a forum, you really have nothing to do as the face and voice of a gaming company

 

[pikeh]

ianc needs to learn its the internet 99.99% of threats on here mean bugger all and there from some stupid punk kid whos still waiting for puberty.

So surely it's the same from his end then?

 

[Alexandrinus]

we have seen English CM should learn the polite way from the German one, but maybe this is because of my missing english skill.

I think not many people can act like this as an CM , but it looks like in GOA you can do it.

One of the biggest problems is dont promise something wich you cannot do.
They promised big funny Open Beta playing, some people bought specially because of this the collectors box (marketing can make monkeys out of customers) and then they cannot play.

Its maybe time to confess that they will also face problems with the start of the real gameplay next week, and dont say everything will work so smooth, i say it will not.

 

[Emmy]

I'm really surprised Mark Jacobs took to criticism of a CM openly in his blog. Some things should remain behind closed doors, regardless of the wrongs or rights, I personally have little respect for Mark Jacobs as a result.

 

[Mithradir]

Its maybe time to confess that they will also face problems with the start of the real gameplay next week, and dont say everything will work so smooth, i say it will not.

Seriously this is the problem that starts to worry me. I rememeber in wow there were a few problems with the registration when it was released but it was only due to the congestion. After a time it was ok again and the reg process was completed without many problems.

On Goa's case we are not talking for only a congestion but for a total crash of their database systems and i start wondering if they have done correct planning and if there systems can support the thousands of users that will try to register on the 14th, 15th and 18th of September. Remember that on release the numbers of customers that will try to register will be 10 times more than now. How they will manage to sort this out in 5 days?

PS: The harsh comments from some of the users are unacceptable. We ought to be frustrated and angry with Goa and we have the right to criticize them for their planing but that's it. We dont have the right to curse anyone or give him death warning and all that crap. On the other hand ofc it is unacceptable also from Goa to attack with this way to their future customers. Even if some of them are indeed idiots Goa should have known better that the customer has always right...

 

[Gahn]

I can understand Iain from a pure human point of view cause, honestly, am openly criticist with Goa from years but there's a line one shouldn't cross at all tbh.
That said he's a Community Manager and the front end of Goa, he should really think twice before hitting send button on a forum

 

[Xandax]

Seriously this is the problem that starts to worry me. I rememeber in wow there were a few problems with the registration when it was released but it was only due to the congestion. After a time it was ok again and the reg process was completed without many problems.

On Goa's case we are not talking for only a congestion but for a total crash of their database systems and i start wondering if they have done correct planning and if there systems can support the thousands of users that will try to register on the 14th, 15th and 18th of September. Remember that on release the numbers of customers that will try to register will be 10 times more than now. How they will manage to sort this out in 5 days?
<snip>

My fears exactly. Especially as we hear nothing about how they're moving onwards.
The 14th will be crunch day for many "not-in-beta-excuse" paying customers.

 

[Downanael]

I always thought the psychos played AOC

And yeah they really are dropping the ball if they dont get them to work for pre-order.

 

[Ivynoxia]

Of course "death treats" and what not are innapropiate, but I mean - come on - where have people been the last 10 years on the Internet. It isn't acceptable but seriously a lot of what happens on the web isn't acceptable. Heck - people will post "death treats" on forums over a disagreement of semantics.
It is hardly as if they stand outside their home yelling them.
Now if the threats were made personally, they are a matter for the law - not the customers!

Fact of the matter is we have here a company which had a poor reputation of customers relations and competence level to many, they've been taken in lying and spinning information to get it to appear as if they were on top of things. And then they screwed up royally after many attempts to appear "on top of things".
People get annoyed, people mistrust them, people wanted answers - and yes - idiots post things the real world wouldn't.

HOWEVER - I, the customers, do not care that some idiots perhaps have mailed GOA. Just like I do not care that some idiot have delivered death treats or physical harm to some other dweeb over an internet forum (lest I'm moderating).
I, the customer, wants answer on how it could become such a royal mess, how their planning could screw up so bad when everybody said it was stupid, why we are lied to, fed spin etc, when claiming to be "a new company". And most of all - I, the customer, want reassurance that it....will...not...happen ..... again.

And then when IainC posts something like that, basically initially labeling most of the people complaining as sociopath and "something wrong with us", then I feel the guy has lost all credibility. That he afterwards - after 40 minutes changes it because he (or somebody else) can see it is a out of line remark to include some events we have absolutely no control over - I wonder why the heck we - the customers - should have that information?

What can we do? I can't stop people from acting like idiots - but I will also not stop complaining about issues like this because people act like idiots.

That remark have done nothing what so ever, besides giving trolls ammunition either to flame/troll those who are complaining or vice versa.

IainC dropped the ball with that remark, and it just goes to show the unprofessional level of GOA combined with all the other "spin" and "rhetoric" they have posted online the last period of time in an attempt to - well mislead us.

So in conclusion, yes - stupid people do stupid things. But we have no control over stupid people, we aren't affiliated with stupid people, so don't lump legit complains into that category.
This post by IaniC looks nothing more like an attempt to get the legit and justified heat off himself and GOA and point finger and blame at some undefined group of people.

I'm really surprised Mark Jacobs took to criticism of a CM openly in his blog. Some things should remain behind closed doors, regardless of the wrongs or rights, I personally have little respect for Mark Jacobs as a result.

I don't see anything wrong with saying openly that his company does not share the views of GOA's CM

 

[Hakke]

I think IainC, the Community Managers or GOA are still missing the point why so many gamers got so angry.. It wasn't only because they couldn't get to play right away, but because no-one told them what was wrong and what's been done about it. For long time only new piece of news on the main page was that the Betaservers were opened, altought practically none of the new OB keyholders weren't even able to create an account, not speaking of patching or getting in to the game itself.

 

[rynnor]

I can understand Iain from a pure human point of view cause, honestly, am openly criticist with Goa from years but there's a line one shouldn't cross at all tbh.
That said he's a Community Manager and the front end of Goa, he should really think twice before hitting send button on a forum

I think you'd have to be in his position to fully appreciate why he did it.

There have been a number of unacceptable posts here but we are lucky - its far far worse on some other forums...

No-one who's already under a lot of stress having to handle a disaster that he didnt create whilst simultaneously getting tons of death threats, racist abuse etc. can be expected to take that without some reaction.

If anyones at fault its the back room boys at GOA who caused this whole disaster making IainC and Magnusk's job a million times harder.

Anyway - heres hoping we wake up from this bad dream soon...

 

[warkoosh]

What nobody seem to be realizing is that this is typical mob behaviour it just takes place on-line, but the effects and methods of controlling remain the same.

Have any of you been to a rock concert where the band screws up or is really-really late? no one comes to the stage and says: stop screaming you morons, they'll be here when they'll be here. Because this only enrages the mob even further.

This is the same thing what has happened, people got angry and frustrated and looking at pages where other people where experiencing the same a mob was formed and mobs are never rational.

 

[Gahn]

I think you'd have to be in his position to fully appreciate why he did it.

There have been a number of unacceptable posts here but we are lucky - its far far worse on some other forums...

No-one who's already under a lot of stress having to handle a disaster that he didnt create whilst simultaneously getting tons of death threats, racist abuse etc. can be expected to take that without some reaction.

If anyones at fault its the back room boys at GOA who caused this whole disaster making IainC and Magnusk's job a million times harder.

Anyway - heres hoping we wake up from this bad dream soon...

I think i can quite judge by myself dude, no matter what he's not a volunteer Moderator of a random forum, he's in charge of the Community Management of War for Goa. It's crystal clear to me and to any half brained people that him and Magnus got nothing to do with the troubles they had during OB start, non the less that post is far from a good Management at all.
It's also crystal clear that many internet morons should go out and try to pump some oxygen in their brains.

 

[Sharkith]

Some of the stuff people posted was way over any line of common decency. I mean I could not believe what I was reading on these forums and elsewhere. In many respects I agree with Requiel some people are sociopathic. However, like so many have said here you just don't say these things if you are in such a position. It is simply inappropriate. Well look he made a mistake and this time he admitted it, I see that as progress given what has gone on in the past.

At the end of the day it has been hard for GOA and very hard for the people caught out of the game. It looks very bad for next weeks launch.

The one big thing GOA have over Mythic though is that at least when we deal with them there is always some drama!

 

[lefo]

Am I the only one who gained loads of respect for Iain the moment he said that?

Honestly think he is right on the money, at least in the edited version

Yes you are. He is the one who is sociophatic.

 

[Aada]

Am I the only one who gained loads of respect for Iain the moment he said that?

Honestly think he is right on the money, at least in the edited version

Yeah your in a small minority the rest think IainC should be removed from his position because frankly i cannot stand him.

Give us the German CM.

 

[Ribbit]

Mark Jacobs is 100% correct. If you can't see why, try and work it out.

Dumping on the Customer Base like that, when you get right down to the nitty gritty, was BUCK PASSING.

IainC wasn't even AT WORK on the most important day of the year (of the last 4 years, tbh) for the product so far, TO DO HIS JOB!

It really gutted me, and I found it even worse than being insulted by him by inclusion, for him to have to mention, that SOMEONE ELSE WAS DOING HIS JOB ON THE DAY!

That is also, BUCK PASSING, AND, is DUMPING ON AN UNDERLING (who had to do the best they could in the circumstances, in the ABSENCE OF THE BOSS)!

IanC needs to have the decency to resign and walk out the door of GOA, along with EVERYONE ELSE that works there, that has the same arrogance, contempt, and disrespect for their CUSTOMERS. I would also include the person that speaks so infrequently to the customer base because he so obviously doesn't have the time to associate himself with people so lowly.

I KNOW such an attitude is the endemic European disease (and it's a terminal disease too), but somebody has to try and establish some standards somewhere.

So Right Here, and Right Now, seems a pretty good idea to me.

 

[Draylor]

Fair play to Mark for the criticism in his blog post. I personally find it slightly comforting that people at Mythic are voicing their concerns instead of ignoring the situation like European DAoC.

Indeed.

So far the signs are good that GOA/Mythic will be working more closely together this time, and kicking each others rears when they get things wrong.

Thats about the only positive to be taken from the last few days tho.

 

[Ribbit]

I think i can quite judge by myself dude, no matter what he's not a volunteer Moderator of a random forum, he's in charge of the Community Management of War for Goa. It's crystal clear to me and to any half brained people that him and Magnus got nothing to do with the troubles they had during OB start, non the less that post is far from a good Management at all.
It's also crystal clear that many internet morons should go out and try to pump some oxygen in their brains.

Well said!

When the flying excrement hits the rotating blades, it's his ***JOB*** to be there and accountable, along with everyone else at GOA, and literally be Mr 'Sweetness and Light' for everyone's benefit.

What we saw was a reflection of the endemic culture we have unfortunately come to know exists at GOA.

Chronic unprofessionalism, and chronic incompetence.

 

[wessexcrusader]

Right i have one a few things to say

1) GOA better get it right on the day that includes the head start . Many have payed for that via CE .

If they dont get it right people should be

2) or they admit they are not yet ready and pull back release date until they are

3) heads should roll if Mythic do get it right on the day and GOA does not

4) as for the beta , although i have CE edition and key, tbh I dont give a monkeys about the open beta. BUT WHAT I DO EXPECT IS THEY PROMISED 15th for head start. THEY EITHER STICK TO IT or postpone it. BUt if they stick to it and mess up, then heads should roll at upper management levels for forcing a deadline they cant possible stick to. Its not the grunts that should be blamed but the upper echelons of GOA. After all u know who will take the glory and bonuses if it goes without hitch. It will not be acceptable if USA and rest of world get smooth service and GOA do not acheive the same in usa.
For starter they should use SERVERS in UK and NOT FRANCE - sorry UK Server sites are better but cost more


But they should be straight forward and stop giving deadlines they cant commit to. Its typical management behaviour , and im a test IT contractor that has worked in industries from Banking to Air Traffic control to Mobile phone systems and i have seen management push dates they know cant be competed.
one example of utter incompetence:-
IN the UK may have heard of the incompetence of EDS, you wonder why the UK governemnt keeps giving them work when they have failed every project. (EDS incidentally use people from indian and import people to do the work) EDS should be chucked out.

The point is if GOA mess up and Mythic keeps to release date
They know exactly how many subscibers will be on headstart , since they are in advance. I do wonder if they have ever heard of performance testing and using tools like winrunner and test director. Testing is not an afterthought its an important part of the software cycle. AS they say if you pay peanuts u get monkeys for the work.

Heads should roll in managemen the highlevel management and MD should not be given fat pay cheque bonuses. If a contractor fails they are out the door, if management fail they get a golden bonus and a new job nice.

There would be more respect for GAO if they know cant do it on the release date and postpone it

 

[Ribbit]

At the end of the day it has been hard for GOA . . . . .

GOA made it hard for GOA. That's the bottom line

The one big thing GOA have over Mythic though is that at least when we deal with them there is always some drama!

When I buy a product, if I want a drama, I buy a film.

I am not paying GOA for drama, and now I am not paying them at all. Pre-order with them is cancelled, I have preordered the game now Mythic hosted, and you know what?

Once I had the game downloaded, it took a lot less than 5 minutes to enter the beta key, and launch the game and start updating it. Peak time EST was when I did it too.

I'd also tested their accounts page efficiency prior, logged in, changed the password, and timed the arrival of the confirmation of password change e-mail into my inbox. It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!
It took less than a minute and a half!

That sunk in?

 

[Muylaetrix]

He does open with saying that what was posted was out of line, so at least there is some indication of what triggered the message. Ofc, he also says 'many of the posts', rather than a small number of the posts, but guess not much point in getting in post-forensics.

even as little as 0.5 % of all the post in the last 2-3 days is still an enormous amount.