help stalker classes

[old.Putger]

like most peeps will notice that stalker classes shades and rangers hardly get any groups at all why, because they got low health and their dmg in normal close combat isnt always as good as the guardian classes :touch: noone knows how the stalkers work and avoid em for that

i think its just a lot of crap uke: saying to that poor shade that the groups full where theres still plenty of room but u just dont want a damn shade sucking xp while he doesnt add anything

shades and ranger can add lots of stuff to the group, you just have to orientate better around it
rangers can do fine dmg with their arrows and can still tank pretty good if they carry a shield and have decent buffs, i found my ranger class survive pretty well in the sprag den at 19 and im sure shades could do the same, just have someone put a guard on u and have em taunt the mob off u after u backstab or crit shot, let them keep taunting it where u can do nice dmging attacks based on position like pincer and lots others im not gonna mention

now i may be wrong when i say peeps wont invite shades and i may be right

but theres one thing we all know is that the stalker classes are very wanted in rvr, shades and ranger, everyone wants em there but (hardly) anyone wants em in groups, u wont see peeps clicking on find putting on stalker, no just guardian healer and maybe even nuker

when i have a party or start one i always let stalkers join cause i know how hard it is for them to group

and when i finally get in one i show them how good a ranger or shade can be in a party, i think i have shown this as my ranger Havok, my little shade Xerice is still unknown since she didnt party much =]


hope it isnt 2 messed up a post but its late gimme a break

 

[iziz]

Hehe - the lone ranger

Nah - you're quite right though - no-one seems to want us shades either

I find it a little strange myself, seeing as I can out damage many tanks 4-5 lvls higher than myself... and that's before the use of poisons and stun stealth attacks. I don't understand why rangers don't get groups too... they have a great dmg output.

I found it really funny that I spent 5 hours in Innis the other day, trying to get an xp group without success - and then within 5 mins of being in the frontier, I had 3 offers of an RvR group, without even looking for one.

Still ... I know who's having the most fun out there now (so stick with it)

iziz

 

[old.NorME]

If you cant get a group my advice is, make one

We should be better on using the stalker classes in PvE, no doubt about it. But it is not easy when ppl complain in the group when these are added

I hope this will change during game time...

 

[old.Halfmad]

As a nightshade that's only grouped for less than 2 levels in 35.. I can say that I do understand a lot why people would rather have another healer type or a hero...

But as far as champs or rangers go I'm just as much use as them infact in the case of rangers I'm probably better

NorME is right though, I've noticed that a lot of hibbies seem to lack the conviction to start a group of thier own. Lots of people of similar levels sitting on "looking for group" but not actually linking up.

The other thing that I've noticed more recently is that now I'm over level 30 I'm getting offered groups for the first time! think people are strarting to wise up regarding us. We dont need huge health because as NS we deal out an awful lot of damage, can stun, debuff and poison within the first 5 seconds of a fight..

P.S. I like grouping with rangers but I still say I'm more use

P.S. S. People love stalker classes in RvR, just wish they're realise that those that help us get up to a level where we can protect in RvR will be the ones we help most

 

[granny]

The problem with stalker classes in groups, especially nightshades, is not that they don't do enough damage, quite the opposite in fact - they often do far too much damage thus drawing agro too heavily. Couple this with their low HP's and weak armour and they quickly turn into repeated res practice for the healers.

I'm always happy to have GOOD stalkers in groups, ie. stalkers who realise that they have to limit the damage they do and they have a large role in agro control. Shades who say "but i like using PA!!" when asked to limit agro they draw don't get invited into my groups a second time - if you can't take the damage don't draw the agro, simple.

Rangers are very handy for pulling, as long as they can control the urge to use crit shot and FFB's (aka cruise missiles) so that agro can be easily taken off them once the pull is made, and as long as when the time *does* come for a crit shot pull (ie. need to take a baf'ing caster mob down before adds reach the group) they have the arrows to make it count

Thing is in a group with 1 slot free 19 times out of 20 I'd pick Hero, Warden, Bard, Druid over a stalker-class given the choice, sorry.

 

[old.Halfmad]

granny: Thing is in a group with 1 slot free 19 times out of 20 I'd pick Hero, Warden, Bard, Druid over a stalker-class given the choice, sorry.

You'll never find out the good stalkers with that attitude pretty much every stalker 30+ can detaunt quickly and know how to control agro better than any other class

 

[old.Fae]

Shades are not as good for parties as most other classes rangers are a bit more usefull but thats why we play em there fun and challenging to play and when we get to RvR levels were gonna have some serious fun and provide a useful function overall for RvR.

As with any class played badly were a nightmare but a druid that heals too much will get early aggro much the same as a shade that does an early perf or an eld that pops in the early nuke we got our faults but don't we all.

One thing I will say is if your a shade thats soloing flag as solo don't sit there and solo (unless you want to) so other shades can group pretty sure a group of shades would do pretty well (never tried it as you don't see many flagged) I have grouped with a ranger and we did ok, he pulls and I perf and then we tank (as best we can) but also this would be good practice for RvR for small teams of assasins going in deep to cause havoc as we wont have a healer then either

also I have actually tanked for one group we had plenty mages and healers and me, the hero had to log and boy was that fun

Most of all remember were the ones that can detect hidden ignore us at your peril - you help me level Ill watch your back

 

[granny]

Halfmad: Nah, I'm rarely the group leader so it's not me who makes the decisions usually so I often end up in groups with shades & rangers... and I remember the ones who end up having to be constantly healed and the ones who know how to detaunt

 

[Alrindel]

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, too. I (ranger) have reached level 30 almost exclusively solo or paired with a healer, very rarely in any sort of group, and many of the groups I have been in have not been very well organized and we've wiped out pretty quickly. I have no idea what the best PvE strategy is for a ranger in a large group because no-one has ever taught me how to do it, so any group that did invite me would just get a level 30 n00b (aka. "mana sponge") and quickly regret it, confirming their belief that rangers are no good in groups.

An exception to this is in groups where the ranger is the highest level. When I was 29 yesterday I grouped with several 24-27 healers and tanks and just pulled everything in range, mostly red and orange to me with the occasional purple. With mobs of that level a ranger can easily tank it out, and we had safe, steady exp for a couple of hours until I was a sliver away from levelling and got very careless and wiped out the whole party (oops, sorry everybody).

 

[Aeiedil]

and their dmg in normal close combat isnt always as good as the guardian classes

what a load of bollocks if i want to i can draw and hold aggro from pretty much anyone

as for PA'ing, i will always try and pa. on bigger mobs you just have to wait for the tank to land a taunt or 2, and a pa leads into creeping death which stuns, so if you do draw aggro you can land detaunts while its stunned.

as for not being able to take hits, ns can take aruond 4-5 hits, sometimes more, from high-con creatures, but also evade a lot of the time

shades which are high level have no doubt learnt how to control aggro, otherwise they would die a lot more than most other classes, or just end up having to solo (which is obviously no fun atall)

please end the rumors we are useless in PvE, I can consistently take down yellows, and even some yellows without taking a single hit. ive even managed to take a yellow in 3 hits before, tell me that im underpowered!!! (and thats not 3 LW hits, thats 3 pierce hits, which hit about 3x as fast as an lw hits, esp as most shades have high dex and qui)

finally, why ignore us in pve if you want us in rvr? how can a shade protect you from a level 50 assasain when he hasnt got past level 30 or 40 or whatever because of a lack of groups?

 

[old.Putger]

good to hear that im not the only one with this opinion

what worked for me in the den is that a good shield tank puts guard on me, with both guard and evade i get hit half the time

also im proud to tell that only 2 peeps died in a 3 hour party wich was because spriggit came and agrod the pit on one person and when 2 patrols added and we lost another men =]

thing is i know for sure now that rangers can tank just as wel as blademasters, i still have to try out my shade at that lvl to see how hes like in combat

 

[old.Vendetta]

As a level 41 Ranger I agree it is hard to group as a stealther class, only the support of two of my own guilds healers getting me into groups has got me this far. ie they say you want a healer I come with this ranger.

But so few people offer this kind of support to their stalker comrades.

I have a few alts and I am constantly asked to group with them none are of the stalker class though my ranger never experienced this. Infact my mentalist generally barely has to log in before group offers come flooding in.

Right now we are a realm of gimped Druids and tank brained wardens because people took the easy option character wise. I apologise to the good Druids and Wardens for the above comments but not the ones who charge miles over 20+ dead hibs to get a few rp's rather than rez and end up dead themselves making the situation worse.

 

[Chameleon]

I'm currently a level 13 nightshade and can take on all yellow and nearly all orange alone. I dont think that type of output makes someone a bad choice in a group! When in a group and taking on purples, even if I do take all the taunts, they are dead before I am, always. I have more damaging weps and better armour than anyone ive grouped with. I dont really see theres an argument for not having a nightshade in a group ....... but pesonally if I have to go solo, that suits me as most of the time groups I join only want to take on oranges ........ which i can usually do alone anyway, so its pointless. The arguments against stalkers seem to go around and around in circles and never quite put their case forward sufficiently. Ah well, it's their loss not ours

 

[Danya]

The reason for stalkers not to draw aggro is not only not dying but downtime. It's better for the tank to hold aggro and the healer to not have to chain heal them than the shade to have binary health for a while (as in 0,1,0,1...). At low levels most classes can tank some, as you get higher the difference between tanks and others becomes a LOT more significant.
That said, stalkers are great in groups if they can manage the aggro properly.

 

[Alrindel]

The reason for stalkers not to draw aggro is not only not dying but downtime. It's better for the tank to hold aggro and the healer to not have to chain heal them than the shade to have binary health for a while (as in 0,1,0,1...).

Yes, hence the term "mana sponge."

Any ranger who has ever had the repeated pleasure of seeing an enraged purple mob run straight past four heavily armoured tanks to get at the archer who pulled it, time after time, knows the reality of aggro in large groups. Mythic have adjusted archer aggro once already and will do it again in the upcoming (for us) patch.

From the 1.46 patch notes:

ARCHERY ADJUSTMENTS

- We've decreased (again) the aggro that archers do to monsters while fighting monsters. This means that archers can now do even more damage to monsters without having the monster turn on them.

- We've increased the damage that archer Critical Shot does against higher-level monsters (monsters only, no change was made to RvR CS damage).

- Archers will hit more often in group situations - the group melee "to-hit" bonus has been increased. Archers (as well as any melee attacker) has more of a chance to hit a monster based on the number of people in the group. Archers now have a bonus over and above the regular melee bonus on "to-hit".

 

[Brennik]

Plus there's the perception issue: if you had to choose between a small lurikeen without a shield and shield-specced hero to tank for a group, which one would you choose? That's why the shades/rangers usually get added to the group's "leecher" spot, although they can very well pull their own weight in the team.

Then again, I've been in pbaoe groups with such wonderful persons as Hing, Trapp and Kirnan (for the few of you not recognizing the names, yes, that's two rangers and a ns) as the main tanks (because Mr Uber Tank Archer Lanvar doesn't count us a regular tank ). So if you're short on a tank, check if the ranger wanting to join has a decent weapon spec or if you got an ickle 'shade there loitering around, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Putger, what you fail to see is.

Rangers and nightshades are 'pretty' good, yes.

They are pretty good at what they do, but they arent great. In this game xp is so slow that anything but great makes you just wanna lie down and die.

THATS why NSs and rangers dont get groups.

And most ppl would say that a ranger/ns can do well with some good buffs. Well, place those good buffs on a hero instead and its even better. Thats the catch, everything an NS or ranger can do another class can do better.

A hero tank better than an NS.

a nuker does more damage than a ranger.

a healer can keep ppl alive.

etc etc.

Get the point?

Im not saying they suck(cuz they dont) just that there is better alternatives, and if there is a better alternative, why not go with it?

 

[old.Vendetta]

Because the game is not about, solo players who gets to 50 first etc, it's about RvR and teamwork yet so few people and virtually no guild can grasp that.

It's all a race for level 50, uber items and rp's, we a so loosing the potential as a strategic wargame DAoC has because people are generaly so selfish and short sighted

There is not one guild in Hibernia who has any idea about strategy or even attaempts it.

The only person I know who attempted to get the guilds together for planning was Ortunga right back at the beggining of release with his message board the guilds ignored that.

We fight in reaction to our enemies, we raid on individual whims, we plan nothing all individuals and guilds are to blame for Hibernias situation. People can say Albs have more people, dream that when we are all 50 we will win all excuses.

Facts are we have a good experienced base of fighters who do well fighting disorganised, organised, planning stragegies beyond the next hour we could rulle this server.

What Hibernia needs is real War Guilds that are hard on their enemies and dismissive of realm mates and fellow hib guilds who just don't get the game.

The moment a true War Guild appears ie one that knows it's strengh and belief in itself will bring victories and to hell with the xp/rp junkies and weak guilds then I will give that guild my bow and 100% day and night, unfortunately I do not think we will get a guild like that now

Wake up killing mobs in DAoC is just mind blowingly boring, playing rp tennis at the alb wall is pointless, we need more.

Helluva lot of good players in hib being wasted because we are a disorganised rabble, there are also a lot of dweebs aswell let's sort the wheat from the chaff and get strong enough to win.

Guess this post will annoy many people and get me flamed, but who cares recently I have considered returning to UO (and that's crap now), deleting and going playing Mid as at least Nazgul seem to be trying to pull somin together there, I just feel we are wasting this game blame the game all you like yet it is us that play it that make it so limited right now.

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

Tactics

I agree that the guild / realm uses little tactic and could be ruling this server when we start using it.

Why does no1 follow tatctics ?

I think the problem there is no1 to follow anymore , the ones who tried gave up.Now maybe ppl are going to see we need more then running to emain tactic , but now there is no1 who will lead them anymore.I for one would find it greath if we where going to use tatcics like flank attacks , stealth suprise attacks ect.
So maybe some1 should trie to organise a planned attack and i think we maybe get ppl to help this time , because if we dont albs will run over our server.

On one thing i dont fully agree , lvling is important because even when lower lvl can do dmg againsd most ppl , they still get killed in 2 hits and there for a army will be wipedout soon.Maybe when we use tatctic and protect our flanks more we can stop ppl from charging to our lower lvl and keep them alive , but to do this we need a front row of higher lvls(So its impostant that we will keep up in lvl whit albs and mids) !

To the poster : I agree ppl should help stalkers , not because we are good rvr , but its the right thing to do.If you know ppl have a hard time lvl you should help them what ever class they may be !

Greetz , EL

 

[old.Phlobin]

Ranger-Tactics

Niljindil: "Im not saying they suck(cuz they dont) just that there is better alternatives, and if there is a better alternative, why not go with it?"

The Problem with Rangers' PvE-Battles is not that they lack certain tanking-abilities or all that stuff but that u have to think about an alternative group tactic, which considers their strengths.

Ranged-Attack groups work fine, even without any tank. All u need is a bunch of rangers/eldritches including one char with stun/mezz-spells. Pull the mob with synchronous crit-shots. Stun it and there we go. Works fine even for groups of three orange mobs for a group of 4 lvl 35-39 rangers/elds with almost no downtime.
If stun fails run (we are at least experts in this .

Personally i never grouped much with nightshades, but i bet, u can develop a similar good tactic for them as well.

I'm as well pretty annoyed about hearing "last place is reserved for healer/tank" or much more often my question being ignored in a crowd of 20 pple. But thats a problem of social behaviour.
Partially at least the problem seems to lie in the lack of ability to imagine a group-tactic different from tank/healer/nuker standard combo (easier to (wrongly) complain about game-weaknesses).

Rangers/Elds(/NS?) unite. Dont solo, try to group. My suggestion looks pretty simple, but i seldom saw groups like this, so maybe it helps a bit.

cheers