Helicopter Attack

[GekuL]

Good find Deady.

Army officials acknowledged that the 30 mm cannons used by the Apache gunners were far bigger than what was needed to kill the men, but said it is the smallest weapon the Apaches have.

hehe.

 

[Tinky]

If that video shows anything, it shows how removed certain solders are from some of the violence they cause, they're almost in a little safe cocoon away from the violence. Infra-red pictures, at a distance, its almost like a computer game. I was expecting to be sickened by the video as I don't like that kind of stuff, yet it didnt affect me too much because it was all so "clean cut". Theres no audible screams, you dont see the blood and you dont smell the stench of death, pretty easy life in a chopper aint it.

It only seems easy when you are used to seeing this type of warfare on telly, weapon systems like the Apache were designed for large scale mechanised conflicts where their life would have been anything but easy. It's unlikely you'll ever see large scale mixed battlefield conflicts again. Clean cut means effective. In Total War thats the last thing you want to do, you don't want clean kills, you want to either drag in their support services to deal with injuries or demoralise them by forcing them to leave their injured men.

 

[the_hermit]

It only seems easy when you are used to seeing this type of warfare on telly, weapon systems like the Apache were designed for large scale mechanised conflicts where their life would have been anything but easy. It's unlikely you'll ever see large scale mixed battlefield conflicts again. Clean cut means effective. In Total War thats the last thing you want to do, you don't want clean kills, you want to either drag in their support services to deal with injuries or demoralise them by forcing them to leave their injured men.

Plus there's the shock factor... Seeing your blokes being mowed down from afar with bullets the size of a hefty cork is gonna A) make a mess, and B) scare the pants off anyone else nearby.

Punching holes through someones body is a sure-fire way to demoralise anyone.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

If this sounds like flaming i assure you it isn't.

I think his, Yonis and mine to an extend was not that it was wrong for whatever reasons. But the fact that this is the image people have of modern warfare. That and the fact we don't need to be subjected to it to better understand it. We could argue about military tactics all day and the weapons used etc, but in this case i think it came down to us (the public) not actually needing to see such footage to gain a better understanding.

 

[Jupitus]

This is a tough one. Although it's very grainy the footage itself is still very graphic and I personally found it quite disturbing. What worries me is that the news media is gradually pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for release in their quest for more sensational stories and hence more viewers. I am not in any way going to get drawn into an argument over the actual incident, but I I will say that although I was tempted to disagree with the link being posted here it's up to the individual to decide to click.

Over time, the news media will de-sensitise us all and free display of acts of violence will be the norm... I shudder sometimes when I think what my kids have to look forward to

 

[nath]

Alternatively you could say that because we never see the harsh brutalities of war we never truely understand the consequences and so are quicker to decide it's a good idea without fully exploring other options.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

It's the same as what the BBC of all people were accused of doing during the Iraq conflict. With the little "Defense Analysis" sections of the main news program. Having an overview of a Chieftain Tank for instance and it's methods etc for fighting, appeals to the sad bastards out there who really do take these things as some kind of game and thus enjoy the extra media attention.

 

[nath]

Yeah I agree that sort of stuff should be left to the discovery channels wide variety of "How To Blow Shit Up" documentaries.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Alternatively you could say that because we never see the harsh brutalities of war we never truely understand the consequences and so are quicker to decide it's a good idea without fully exploring other options.

No-one should have to see the "Harsh Brutalities" of war. Unfortunately many soldiers etc do and that is bad enough in itself. But bringing it to the masses, is not a good idea. Im sure most intelligent people can take enough from figures of death tolls/wounded to understand that war is not nice. Adding all this shit about apache weapon systems and how they are best used... why? Are we all defence analysts?

 

[nath]

Well I don't know.. reading the death tolls etc. it's just statistics. It's quite difficult to associate that with real people, real lives. On the one hand I think seeing things like that Ali kid who lost his arms is a valid display of the atrocities of war and may well make people think a bit more about it.. there's also the thought that there is going to be civilian casualties and while horrible, there's no way to avoid it and it's (for want of a better term) acceptable collateral damage.

Adding all this shit about apache weapon systems and how they are best used... why? Are we all defence analysts?

As for that.. see above post.

 

[Mazling]

I think it's important that some kind of insight is given into how warfare is conducted, what with things like the hutton enquiry going on; confidence in government amongst people who don't just watch TV news I think is at an all-time low. Who can trust these behind the scenes, closed door kind of briefings, meetings, and oversight commitees and boards and whatnot? Though what kind of ideas are we supposed to get from watching some blurry footage of people waving flags behind tractors getting seven kinds of hell thrown at them, I'd like to say is *purely* speculative.
There is the perspective that all this political chicanery went on anyway, and that the internet and the expansion of media, is a giant seething mass of furry, smelly evil where the line between fact and opinion is less than obvious, however ... this is going on now: we are being lied to, misled, fed half-truths. We're being ignored. And those of us who aren't fortunate to have the time and the inclination to read internet news, are most definitely being shamelessly fed nonsense for whatever capitalist or political reasoning. Surely in the presence of the internet, things have to change.
The message we are being given is not that "our" war ("our", not like many wanted it) may have been to remove wmd's, to save lives and promote democracy or to discourage terrorism, it's that we don't really matter all that much.
</rant>
This stuff annoys me.