has anyone else found this NOT true?

[Trinilim]

Q: I heard that the primary melee classes don’t want haste buffs, because they will not hit as hard each combat round.

A: Completely not true – a haste buff makes you attack faster and does not affect your damage per swing at all.


Q: If all a haste buff does is speed up how fast you swing, why not just get a faster weapon?

A: With a haste buff, you can swing a heavy, high damage weapon at the same speed as a lighter, lower damage weapon, so it makes you more powerful.

this is from the Herald 1.60 grab bag.

Personally, I have found this to be pure BS.

If a theurg casts haste on me, I do attack faster, but do I attack for the same amount? of course not.

Unhasted damage against a yellow con:
379
403
360
387

Hasted damage against the same enemy-type yellow con:
320
303
300
317

 

[old.Xarr]

hummm.. haven't tried this out too much. i feel that i hit for the same amount tho, only a bit faster.

 

[Ebonn]

Haste dosnt seem to lower my damage, even had a few heated discussions in guild about it a while ago

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

As far as the warden haste goes, it reduces the damage from styles not the base damage per swing. Therefore the 38% warden haste is actually a 38% loss of style damage.

 

[Karnage]

What haste does is increase the amount of attacks over a given amount of time.

The actual amount of damage over this time stays the same, but u attack faster.

So in reality its a load of rubbish that is no use unless you are 1 hitting elves and want to 1 hit as many as possible in a short amount of time

 

[old.LandShark]

My understanding is that haste lowers styled damage but not unstyled. Seems true with m'friar...

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by Trinilim

against the same enemy-type yellow con:

..

 

[old.Lethul]

i agree with you trin.. with my zerk dmg goes WAY down with haste effects (espcially celerity)

 

[talivarevil]

its simple really say u do 500 a hit at 5speed after 20secs u did 2k, then u get 40%(for easier maths) haste so u hit at 3speed at say maybe 400 a hit= 2.8k in 21secs ):

 

[VodkaFairy]

If haste doesn't improve your damage why do friars very often use the self haste buff?

 

[belth]

Base damage remains the same, whereas the damage (and damage-cap) added by styles decreases. For someone who just gets 1-2 hits in (eg. zerg-people) it's bad. Example of cap: Dual Shadows unbuffed caps at ~320 or so, 296 with highest Dex/Qui buff.

 

[Kicks]

if haste aint a benefit then wots the point of it?

 

[ricky_latino]

it increases the dammage over time for most classes,
but for zerkers where 50% of the dammage is style dmg its kinda bad

 

[herjulf]

i agree, HASTE does lower damage it is a fact.
the dmg u win by haste is slight though, but so little it is hardly worth the screen space the buff icon takes.

My sb does this on yellow con mob.
no haste
270
244
247
257
280

2nd healer haste

231
242
237
215
227

this with garotte only

 

[old.0xygen]

the only haste that increases damage in the game in the zerk haste.


Slow main hand fast off hand.


The speed of each swing is the average of the 2. SO you can get a 1hand weapon going 1-2seconds faster than normal but still retain the huge style damage that zerks have.



Which is a bit of a bitch when u fight one

 

[belth]

DW & CD have the same haste-effect 0xygen.

Over time, high Qui/Haste-buff are beneficial. In short fights, it's counter-productive.

 

[Novamir]

i disagree. DW and CD are the strongest style lines in daoc. fgs don't strengthen them.

 

[Hit ^_^]

testing on a yellow mob aint that safe tho as yellow can be 1-4lvls diff. 46-50 wich would make dmg seem different.

 

[old.Merbos]

Everyone should have learned by now that 50% of whats in the grab bags is BS.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Novamir
i disagree. DW and CD are the strongest style lines in daoc. fgs don't strengthen them.

Can I have your m00se?

 

[old.LandShark]

You can have mine!

 

[belth]

But you already gave it away!

 

[Novamir]

moose can't be bestowed lightly. you must undergo 50 levels of training before you can handle the power. if you tried to control it, it would destroy you!

 

[shilak]

Haste and QUI speed up weapons, as damage from styles and damage buffs are based on the effective speed of the weapon haste 'appears' to reduce the amount of damage you do. Base damage of a weapon is based on the base speed of the weapon, so this will not be effected by haste.

Even on zerkers haste is very useful, if the zerker can handle timing styles with the 1.5s swing rate.

A zerker with end regen and haste will beat a zerker without haste everytime because over a 10s period the damage from styles will be the same but the base damage from the hasted zerkers primary and secondary weapons will be higher.

Admittedly, I doubt a hasted zerker could ever one shot a caster but then with SC that doesnt happen on most decent casters anymore, capped melee resists, constitution and hits are among the first things casters go for on their setup.

Based on Herjulfs damage figures, in the time it takes him to get off 10 attacks without haste, he would of got off 13 attacks with 2nd Healer celerity, therefore: -

Without haste : 259.6 x 10 = 2596 damage
With haste : 230.4 x 13 = 2995 damage

Hence, the haste effectively translates into a 15.4% increase in damage over time. Personally, I think that is significant.

 

[shilak]

Originally posted by Hit ^_^
testing on a yellow mob aint that safe tho as yellow can be 1-4lvls diff. 46-50 wich would make dmg seem different.

Get a level 49 to help you and point out which of the yellow mobs are orange? Or, use /duel to test combat stuff, thats what its there for

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
As far as the warden haste goes, it reduces the damage from styles not the base damage per swing. Therefore the 38% warden haste is actually a 38% loss of style damage.

Err, thats wrong, the only thing you actually *lose* is 38% style damage on the first swing, after that the damage over time is *exactly* as much as without haste.

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by Novamir
i disagree. DW and CD are the strongest style lines in daoc. fgs don't strengthen them.

lolz!

 

[Trinilim]

some people got the wrong impression of what I was saying.

I wasn't saying hitting faster is a bad thing. I was just saying that haste such as THEURGS (and classes of the like) lowers damage output but raises speed. Friar haste as far as I know makes us hit faster but with the same damage. This is why I always cancel my theurg haste when it's casted on me, cause mine is better and doesn't cripple my damage.

 

[Danya]

Style damage is a fixed dps bonus. So while hasted you get less per hit but the same over time. Base damage is fixed based on weapon dps / speed / your skill etc. So when hasted it stays the same. The result is your overall damage over time increases - base damage hits stay the same but are faster, styled hits are lower per hit but also faster, and are more damage over time (due to styled hits being part base part styled damage).
Haste is almost always good unless you want to one-shot someone.
Theurgist haste, friar self buff and quickness all work the same way, NONE OF THEM CRIPPLE YOUR DAMAGE.

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by Danyan
Style damage is a fixed dps bonus. So while hasted you get less per hit but the same over time. Base damage is fixed based on weapon dps / speed / your skill etc. So when hasted it stays the same. The result is your overall damage over time increases - base damage hits stay the same but are faster, styled hits are lower per hit but also faster, and are more damage over time (due to styled hits being part base part styled damage).
Haste is almost always good unless you want to one-shot someone.
Theurgist haste, friar self buff and quickness all work the same way, NONE OF THEM CRIPPLE YOUR DAMAGE.

so why would anyone use a slow staff instead of a faste one if they have the same damage over time?