News Guilty until proven innocent

rynnor

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Noted one little thing in that article;

"to extract mobile phone data from suspects held in custody."

Not like the average joe has anything to worry about.
I think you missed the bit at the bottom of the article that they have handheld versions ready to go.

As far as I can see this sort of data fishing exercise is contrary to the Data Protection Act on a number of counts let alone human rights laws.
 

old.Tohtori

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And those "rights" were given to you by the same people that now want your data *shrug*
 

rynnor

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And those "rights" were given to you by the same people that now want your data *shrug*
Actually no - the UK people have very few 'rights' actually enshrined in law - the rights that are being broken come from the EU and the earlier European Human Rights treaty.

It's not a fashionable opinion but I think that EU regulation is actually a great counterpoint to the limitless powers of the UK govt in the absence of a constitution.
 

Ormorof

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I think the problem with the idea that Facebook is already doing the same thing is silly

we know why facebook wants all our data - to make money

rather the devil you know than the devil you dont ;)

my biggest problems with these kind of laws is that the parties that vote against them almost never repeal the laws once they eventually get into power, once the power has been handed over to the state it is rarely given back freely - and from human history we know this is a slippery slope to go down!
 

Raven

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And ofc you can opt out of facebook by not using it. Unfortunately you can't opt out of British idiotic government, unless you move abroad.
 

old.Tohtori

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Actually no - the UK people have very few 'rights' actually enshrined in law - the rights that are being broken come from the EU and the earlier European Human Rights treaty.

It's not a fashionable opinion but I think that EU regulation is actually a great counterpoint to the limitless powers of the UK govt in the absence of a constitution.
My bad, by "same people" i meant the higher up political peeps etc in general.
 

DaGaffer

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And those "rights" were given to you by the same people that now want your data *shrug*
Rights aren't "given" by our political masters. They're supposed to be our servants. Shame most of them fail to remember that.
 

Wazzerphuk

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Yeah, they never seem to respond when I ask them to clean the bathroom. Cunts.
 

old.Tohtori

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Rights aren't "given" by our political masters. They're supposed to be our servants. Shame most of them fail to remember that.
Supposed, ofcourse, but aren't in reality. Rights were given by powers above though(or granted if you will), along time, and while i won't say that "ooh them politicians are good and you should shush and take it"(far from it), i will say that the so called "people" have become quite arrogant with all the rights and demands, while booing every bit of other inconvinience they might have to endure to live secure lives in their nations.

Both sides need a bit of a slap now and then ;)
 

Scouse

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There's no such thing as rights.

However, I support the ECHR as our only defence against our goverment short of violent revolt.
 

rynnor

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There's no such thing as rights.

However, I support the ECHR as our only defence against our goverment short of violent revolt.
To be fair the EU have also given us many rights - the Consumer Protection Act, the Data Protection Act, the Unfair Contract Terms Act to name just a few - we'd be in a far worse place without them.
 

Keitanz

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Right, so obviously you'll be able to present an example of the police or security services using this information for nefarious purposes.
It seems to me that people are crying over this because they don't want the police all over their personal phone calls/texts etc... not because they might get banged away if the police look at their phones and see all the plans to kidnap Ronald McDonald from McDonalds........
 

opticle

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Give this a few years before it becomes the new phone-tapping scandal :)

As soze says, I have nothing to worry about bar shameful flirting. It's in everyone's best interests that no one sees that.

But I understand why people are upset.. seems to me the key issue is "Keep data even if innocent". If they'd left that out they'd have a much smoother ride with this, and I don't understand their motives for justifying it's inclusion.. does anyone else ?
 

old.Tohtori

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It seems to me that people are crying over this because they don't want the police all over their personal phone calls/texts etc... not because they might get banged away if the police look at their phones and see all the plans to kidnap Ronald McDonald from McDonalds........
Well, Ronald has nothing to worry about, but if i ever get my hands on that Raquell McDonald...mmmm....clownsex.
 

Raven

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It seems to me that people are crying over this because they don't want the police all over their personal phone calls/texts etc... not because they might get banged away if the police look at their phones and see all the plans to kidnap Ronald McDonald from McDonalds........
Why should I let them see any of my personal communications? Since when is it anyone's business what I do or say or send in an email/text?

I am not a criminal, the police have no need to see any of my communication.
 

rynnor

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The problem is a few years down the line when theres thousands of peoples personal data stored indefinately on the Police database it's a great honeypot for various nefarious purposes from dodgy Private Eyes hired by media organisations to identity theft and fraud.

When the Police have shown themselves unable to keep quiet about confidential material from murder enquiries how much chance will this personal data have when thousands of people will have access to it?
 

Keitanz

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Why should I let them see any of my personal communications? Since when is it anyone's business what I do or say or send in an email/text?

I am not a criminal, the police have no need to see any of my communication.
Well for most people all this data is already posted on facebook etc...

I really don't care about this.. it's going to happen no matter what and if it helps putting away scum bags then I'm all for it.
 

Raven

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Not really no. If I send a text to my wife, I do not post it on facebook. If I send a text to a mate, I do not post it on facebook. Not everyone uses facebook and most people that do use facebook don't feel the need to broadcast their life on there. Yeah some people can't help but give everyone an update about their tedious life every 5 minutes but most people have a brain and don't want the world to know everything about them.

Its personal communication and nobodies business but the sender and the receiver, not the government and not the police.

Anyway, this is just the start and as long as people keep saying they aren't bothered about it the more they will get away with this shit.
 

soze

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As I understand it this is saying that every phone of someone arrested will be downloaded rather than being sent away for specialists to save the data. And that they will not delete that download if no charges are then bought. It does not say that your data will still be subject to a search by a government super computer. I think the police just don't want someone on payroll who just deletes the phone downloads a certain number of days after they decide not to file charges. You can say well why download every phone? But that seems obvious if they let you out on bail and you destroy that phone they can lose evidence so downloading the thing right away seems like a great idea. If they are trawling though every bit of data just looking for crimes even if you have been proven innocent then that is wrong. If they are just keeping the data but not using it to save on clerical costs then I really do not care.
 

Job

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The government keep all your txt messages, emails, numbers dialed and websites visited, just KEEP them, not sift through them, until you come on the radar for what ever reason, but they have the telecoms firms keep it for them,it's the law.
 

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