Guild elitism

[Glottis_Xanadu]

I can honestly say that there was no elitism going on. Due to the nice stress that DaoC puts on anybody computer, the only way not to ld was to look at your own character zoomed in from the top down...
The guilds that took place were not the biggest, I know for sure the Brethren is not the biggest, it is pretty small even. We did try to participate with as many as we could, and we did have room in our 2nd team. Still, I never saw you ask for a spot mate, would not have mind at all to have a sorc helping defend the left side of the relic keep.
Or controlling some of those uberguard pops that I was left to bash as those stupid alb noobs turned to rp's again instead of waiting inside the keep.
I'm happy with the way the relic raid went, but there are still a lot of improvements.
Big gratz to Wildfire to organising it all. That must have been horrible... Security was good, and if the Mids did know beforehand... I cannot believe they did not act. I mean, we all know how cheapass the Hibs and Mids are... They have helped eachother before, and I dislike them intensely for cheating with IRC like that. Ahh well, going off on a tangent here
Regards, Glottis

 

[old.Wildfire]

Like I said, there were reports of these things happening, none of which I can substantiate myself as I was not personally involved. An hour before the raid I went and sat in IRC for 30 mins in #celcicfist #nolbypride #daoc.exc and #daoc to see if anyone had been tipped off, and couldn't see anything.

Lets be fair though, with the amount of hostility I see shown towards albs on these boards, I really wouldn't have been surprised if hibs/mids had given each other info about our actions in order to 'own those stupid-ass lame albs' this time around.

 

[gestaltwhorl]

I guess you albs are the Manchester United of Excalibur. Victims of your own success.

The difference being of course that Manchester United are only allowed a team of 11 players whilst Albion would put on 111 and still run at the sight of Roy Keane (1 lone Celt).

(boy, am I gonna get flamed for that one)

 

[old.FIN]

GJ

Well i didnt knew it either, well i didnt need to know...i logged in when hibs have took 4 keeps, went to sauvage....

goal was to take keeps back, but as usuall, mids were camping tower, and peeps rushed there 1 by 1 , and they got raped

well, i was there , and we killed most of the mids at tower, but then some new mids came behind, because most of albs we running like headless chickens in sauvage...

Well after i died by the mids, i got CG invitation, and find out about relic going on, and i new 2 fgps mids r at tower near excal, and we have 3 fgps taking keeps back at pennines, so regorup fast CS, and peeps moaned that they dont wanna go to get Farmed by mids, but i didnt care about it, because our goal was, by the info what i got and most of the others didnt, kill/delay mids at tower so 3 fgps , leaded by CplCarrot can take 1 keep and after that they goal was to head snow fort, help Gunnerr to escort relic back to myrd....

Well what happened was we killed mids at tower, 1 alb died on 1st wave, we killed most of the mids at base of the tower, rest runned up, and we didnt follow, we waited little, got some nice debuffs and our casters killed some important mids up from tower, so finally we managed to roam up to tower and we killed all mids, same time Cpl managed to take keep, and our brave group of 5, started to move on to snow keep, and we managed to be there in time, most of peeps at the tower said go to amg emain and protect relic, but they didnt listen, how typical, that relic is passed allrdy amg, and its way to home, so little more listening and we could have more peeps at snow, but it was okies.

and when relic was at myrd, we started to take keeps back, and noticed we had 5 guys left, lol, while gunner and huys tried to suicide at hursb, well that part was hilarious, from 40 guys , 5 were left to take keeps back, but we got more peeps suddenly and tok 1 keep, then at 2nd we got again like 50% left our force, damn albs diseapear fast, lol, well i knew what the 50% was ment to do, because they told me ( if u go off from army, tell even that u r leaving lol ) well we took the rest keeps peeps just came from somewhere so we managed to it...GJ to them


But what this was about was reaction time, i logged in, after 10 mins i knew relic is going, made some fast PM's to sort it out, called guild to help, because no need to go there where we dont have time, and its never 2 late to do something, somewhere else, just ASK and listen , because CPL's team would be raped if those mids at tower got bored and headed to CPL's army, because they got peeps who had saw him 150% sure when they came trough pennines , or they could take renaris, and then we would have only 2 keeps left, and mids at renaris and they could tranported there loads more, and also hibs were near myrd, so those guys needed also help, so fsat reaction, and we managed to do somekind of help, not much, but without it, it would be worse,

bah, gotta stop now, 3 chats, 1 BC, and msn's , lost my tohught, 2 much to do at once..

 

[appollo creed]

Please dont mention Albion and Manchester United in same sentence.


If you wanna talk football talk Arsenal

 

[gestaltwhorl]

You mean everyone hates Arsenal too ?

 

[daphatfriar]

Hmph

As for "those people who were in Lyonesse you should be ashamed of yourself" type remarks that was me.

No i don't feel guilty and I'll tell you why.

Last time I went on one of these raids I got there at the last minute not knowing what was really going on but thinking I'd like to help. So I go up to the Portal and ask which ticket Hib or Mid to buy and 3 or 4 funny buggers tell me the wrong one! So I go there realise there 5 or 6 poor other ppl there who got no idea and have to suicide back.

This is pathetic and childish and if I don't turn up for the next one as I'm in a good xp group and am 15 minutes travel (even after suiciding to get there) away from being anywhere to be of use then I'm sorry you are going to have to live it.

I will contribute as much as I can to the effort in the Fronteirs but you don't own my time and as this is a game I will do whatever gives me the most pleasure at the time. If you ask me sure I will put time aside - this is the point of an Alliance system. If you don't ask people to help in advance, or at least inform them of your intentions, what right do you have to demand their presence when suddenly you don't have enough ppl to carry out this plan?

I'm not being a fascist about this or being negative BUT some effort to treat people like Simius, myself and alot of the other mature players on this server as adults would help alot of ppl put alot more effort in. I realise that isn't the majority of players but it's often enough to put me off helping...

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Re: Hmph

Originally posted by daphatfriar
As for "those people who were in Lyonesse you should be ashamed of yourself" type remarks that was me.

No i don't feel guilty and I'll tell you why.

Last time I went on one of these raids I got there at the last minute not knowing what was really going on but thinking I'd like to help. So I go up to the Portal and ask which ticket Hib or Mid to buy and 3 or 4 funny buggers tell me the wrong one! So I go there realise there 5 or 6 poor other ppl there who got no idea and have to suicide back.

This is pathetic and childish and if I don't turn up for the next one as I'm in a good xp group and am 15 minutes travel (even after suiciding to get there) away from being anywhere to be of use then I'm sorry you are going to have to live it.

I will contribute as much as I can to the effort in the Fronteirs but you don't own my time and as this is a game I will do whatever gives me the most pleasure at the time. If you ask me sure I will put time aside - this is the point of an Alliance system. If you don't ask people to help in advance, or at least inform them of your intentions, what right do you have to demand their presence when suddenly you don't have enough ppl to carry out this plan?

I'm not being a fascist about this or being negative BUT some effort to treat people like Simius, myself and alot of the other mature players on this server as adults would help alot of ppl put alot more effort in. I realise that isn't the majority of players but it's often enough to put me off helping...

sorry for the frair related joke but u seem to have got the wrong end of the stick <giggles>

what wildfire was complaining about was those people in lyonesse who decided to run round like 5 year old twats yelling relic raid on hib before it had even started not those who wherent told and didnt come (i presume this is what you thought )

/em tries to get constantine to pass those new secret albion police yet again ........... burn the security leaking buggers i say

 

[old.Wildfire]

If you don't ask people to help in advance, or at least inform them of your intentions, what right do you have to demand their presence when suddenly you don't have enough ppl to carry out this plan?

1) I don't mean to be overly blunt and insensitive, but your help wasn't asked. Flame me if you like, my reasons are in one of the other raid-related posts around here somewhere.

2) People that were asked were asked with plenty of time. Bias was given towards players that were known to play more RvR than others, and who would be more likely to be willing to help.

3) Nobody's presence was EVER demanded.

4) None of this explains why you think you're justified in risking ruining a couple of hundred people's evenings (these people being those that went on the raid) by shouting about the raid in lyonesse. Your actions seem to have been out of spite and self-pity, rather than for any "mature" reasons.

Yes its 6:30 in the morning, I'm tired and I'm probably 1. making less sense than usual, and 2. being more flamey than usual.

 

[Belomar]

Danger, Will Robinson!

As Herbal points out, I believe Deepfat misunderstood the accusation. No one should ever be required to come and help on a relic raid into enemy territory (although helping defending is almost a responsibility for anyone who is 40+), and no one was on this occasion. The accusation was against those low-lifes who had somehow received word of the power relic raid in beforehand, and were yelling it out at the top of their lungs in Lyonesse.

 

[Khalen]

You don't expect everyone to know each and every guild...

And it has nothing to do with Elitism. Every person who says that is because they feel so left out. Goh jeesh I wonder why.. Maybe it's because people don't know you yet? Wildfire invited guilds he knew and what they are capable at. And btw did you check camelot site and checked the amount of guilds out there? It's insane m8 how many there are...

 

[Tranquil-]

What my problem boils down to is a) Albions apparantly most wanted class was excluded for being in a small guild, and b) not only did some of the ppl who messaged me refuse to take me in their group, but some went so far as to accuse me of spying.... :/

I wasn't in on the raid, but I think I can most certainly say that you didn't get excluded just because of being in a small guild. The reason you didn't get info about the raid however, was because you were in a small guild with no active alliance(more or less isolated). And since this small guild didn't have players to make a group(?), you didn't get said group.

However the ones who accused you for spying etc. are the ones to be held responsible, not the rest. Of course there probably was some groups with spaces left, but I doubt that someone didn't WAN'T you in group. The groups that had room left probably consisted of left overs from guilds etc. that didn't get room in their guild groups. And when people get what they want they probably tend to not care to much about what happens outside, their group in this case. IMO there's nothing wrong with some names to shame. It will prevent such things from happening again.

 

[nume]

Originally posted by appollo creed
Please dont mention Albion and Manchester United in same sentence.


If you wanna talk football talk Arsenal

oh and

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Khalen
You don't expect everyone to know each and every guild...

And it has nothing to do with Elitism. Every person who says that is because they feel so left out. Goh jeesh I wonder why.. Maybe it's because people don't know you yet? Wildfire invited guilds he knew and what they are capable at. And btw did you check camelot site and checked the amount of guilds out there? It's insane m8 how many there are...

actually my main irritation is that two guilds in our alliance were a major part of it and didn't bother to tell the rest of us...

oh well there will be other raids.

 

[Simius]

Again I reiterate my major point. I am not peeved at the fact that I knew nothing about the attempt and that out guild was not informed, in fact I am quite happy that such an attempt could be organised without us knowing. The fact that I didn't know before the attempt is a totally mute point. All I'm saying is that there are quite a few high level players in some of the largest guilds who see fit to abuse and exclude someone purely on the size of their guild. That is what I mean by elitism and it seems pretty close to the definition to me.

 

[quinthar]

My reply will be short..

Name and Shame them!!

If you dont say who they were then the rest of us are tarred with the same brush.

I for one didnt see the above issues, I rarely saw any non /c or /g messages, the lag was dire and for the most part I sat in the apk with names off and and menus off.

 

[cplcarrot]

RE Wildfire

Yup thats true my help was never requested.

I simply went to excal and formed a keep retake team and we slowly retook 3 keeps. It was only common sense to get our uber guards back and it was pure co-incidence only that made us end up being the escort for gunner and his team.

christ is it even possible to take a fart without getting flamed in this game?

take a chill pill boys

 

[daphatfriar]

Ok sorry about the Lyonesse bit thought u meant ppl not coming etc. I sure as hell wasn't running round Lyonesse shouting about the raid - quite the opposite - the first i knew apart from wild rumours over /gc and /as was that the relic had gone neutral.
Only at that point did I know for sure the Raid was happening.
Can't remember who was in my tree group at the time (there have been so many *sigh*) but during the entire raid I was with the same group the entire time. I neither mentioned the subject in /gc or /as either. If you want the person spreading rumours around look elsewhere...

I'd put solid money on the fact that at LEAST one in fifty players actively spies for Mid/Hib or has mates there IRL that they tip off about forthcoming raids.

Since you need 100 - 200 + on a relic riad depending on the time/place etc I can more or less guarantee (IMHO) that you have at least 2 and probably more leaks already.

I'm not blaming you at all Wildfire I agree with you in fact that I shouldn't be invited. My point was badly made (at 3 am) what I meant was calls from alliance and guild to go help when in all honesty if you get the relic out of the keep only a full zerg will stop the relic getting back and in order to combat 50 desperate Hibs u need 50 plus Albs who are in emain and xping. You simply cant get the required numbers organised quickly and effectively once the wheels of a keep raid are moving along at that speed.

That is the idiocy I object to not the need for secrecy nor my inclusion or otherwise from the raid itself. Plus the attitude of certain players at certain times in RvR. There are no persistant abusers I have to say (Once bitten I just avoid - much easier) and I realise people are just being people at the end of the day.
Hell I log in drunk all the time lol

I wasn't bitching or flaming Wild just my point of veiw. We've all answered calls to take this, defend that etc and very rarely do the spur of the moment efforts works as well as a well planned and executed raid. What I want is more organisation and in all honestly more inclusion for guilds like Simius' Perhaps the answer is a "small guilds alliance" it would have to contain alot of guilds to be viable for Relic Riads but I see no reason why it shouldn't work with enough organisation etc.

Fingers are tired. Enough of this inane drivel. See you all in Fair Albion.

 

[Xethron]

I don't want to point fingers at anyone or any particular guild but the point about this tread is that:

.... we (TDP) knew nothing about the raid - ok we in the process of sorting out joining a larger alliance that is NOT the issue - we came willing to help (initially to defend / retake our keeps) and no one would give us the time of day even at CS before things got really hectic during the raid. All that we ask is that people are more mindful that there are players who want to help (not just in raids but in RvR in general) but currently have not the guild backing to field a FG yet and are totally dependant on other people/guilds to let them to group and allow them to contribute effectively and learn valuable RvR skills (and I am not saying that this does not happen or I would not be at RR2L1).

We never intended this to be a flame-full discussion just hopefully an eye-opener to all those who RvR a lot with guilds/friends and have a lot of fun – and this is a good thing I am in no way knocking a good RvR group as I look forward very much to being able to field one of our own in the not too distant future, just that there are some like us that are more often than not left on the sidelines.

Grats again on the most fantastic/successful raid and I hope that the unfortunate incident that we had to experience need not happen again.