Guild elitism

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Simius

Guest
First off, gratz to the albs involved in taking back the staff tonight, from what I hear it was a well planned and well executed attack. But 'from what I hear' is the problem...

Our guild is a) made up mostly of friends and good people we've come across in game so is not a big guild and b) currently in a dying alliance, and as such did not have a clue that anyone was even thinking of an attempt. I have been active in RvR all week and yet not a single person even hinted that there would be an attempt. Security you say? Fair enough... My big problem is with what happened at Sauv/Emain this evening.

Myself (L50) and a L46 friend headed to CSauv this evening having seen that the hibbies had too many of our keeps. Being from a smaller guild we couldnt organise takebacks on our own, but were eager to help in any attempt to do so. When we got there, we assumed that the mini-force there was to take back keeps and defend Excal, so we asked if any one needed us in their group to help. After some time and some asking we did not recieve one single response. So we went our seperate ways...

Xethron went into FSauv to try to help with the retaking/defense, but all he got for his troubles was to be completely ignored and killed by mids when trying to help. When people complain about no-one helping in our own frontier and then ignore a high level player willing to help it makes you wonder why we should try to help in the first place.

Seeing the army porting off it was becoming more and more obvious that this was a relic attempt. Now I had no idea where everyone was going, but an educated guess took me to Hib. When I got there, the army in the pk left nothing to the imagination. So, eager to help, I asked for a group. All I got for my eagerness to help was people bitching at me simply for asking for a group. Of the few people that did talk to me, not one in a helpful manner i might add, I was told that I should have come with my guild. I refer to the points at the start of my post about the size of my guild.

So I sat in the pk, a L50 Sorcerer, apparantly one of albions most needed classes, getting nothing but abuse. The fact that I was part of a small guild who showed up to help just seemed to make matters worse. After an age waiting for anyone who might have needed help, I logged.

Now I can understand the need for security on such an attempt, but what message is it giving out when a level 50 character specced in something albion is sorely lacking is turned away purely because of the size of his guild? Or when a high level character is ignored when trying to help in his own frontier? This kind of elitism deprives guilds, made up of people not wanting to be lost among people they dont know, of an important part of the game and just reminds us why we wanted to play among friends in the first place...
 
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Kagato.

Guest
Its sad to hear that, im in a fair sized alliance and had no idea there was a Relic Raid being planned either until the 2nd door was down.

Either way though im just happy it succeeded, but it is quite astonishing a level 50 sorc could get left behind, thats one thing Albion desperatly needs more off.
 
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old.Akirai

Guest
We didnt know about the raid either, but i was pleased at the response as i had my little 43 cleric in emain and she got straight in a lvl 50 grp for the raid. Did get the alliance involved though, and they did a superb and important job of clearing the amg so the relic could pass through safely.
 
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bracken_woodman

Guest
Sorry to hear it Simius... there is never an excuse for people being rude to a fellow Albion. As for your guild not knowing about the raid, I'm guessing, but judging by the amazing level of co-ordination tonight I would think it would be virtually impossible to have included every guild. Having said that, still no excuse for the rudeness you experienced in Emain. Hope there is no repeat of that next time...
 
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Treon

Guest
U mention something in your post Simius that i have also noticed alot in albion, that ppl dont aswer when u ask them something.
I dont say that all ppl refuse to answer but some of u do, and it´s mostly in RvR i have meet this beaviour.

For exampel if ppl LFG or asking if there is any hibs/mids in the area... A answer is better then no answer, i would almost be glad if someone told me, Hey u !"¤#"¤ we havent seen any !"##¤ mids around... instead of being quiet j/k but u maybe know what i mean...

BTW very good job today all u brave souls who got the relic back to where it belongs....
 
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bf_kate

Guest
That sucks Simius. However, if people don't already know about the relic raid, well I am not going to tell them where I am going if you see what I am saying. It's not to be elite, it's just common sense I think. That doesn't excuse people in normal RvR ignoring you though.
 
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K0nah

Guest
Find one of the alliances thats to your liking and join it. That way u play with ur mates and are more likely to see the bigger picture at the same time.
Im sure many hibs from prydwen have alts on this server and even some Hibs from Excal (certainly account shares) so security also needs to be considered. My personal feeling on relics raids is dont invite anymore ppl than is needed to get the job done. The more know, the higher the chance of a security breech.
 
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old.Filip

Guest
ya it is needed...

some middi guy i meet in RL told " ahh i heared the albs are going on a relic attempt tonigth" i was going ehhhh wut ?
He thougth it was on the mids but still scaring he knew about it..
they had planed meeting point etc to defend...
scary..
 
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Belomar

Guest
Hmm...

The reason that security was so tight is of course simple: the organizers wanted to avoid the raid being tipped off in beforehand. I am actually very pleased that you did not hear about the raid during the week, Simius, because that means that Albion can be tight-lipped if they want to. :) As for not getting an invite into the relic force, that was unfortunate. However, bear in mind that most of us were VERY busy organizing everything before the main force moved out, and that, coupled with the amazing lag that goes with an army of this size, meant that most of us had our eyes turned inwards. I don't believe this is elitism of any kind, just human nature: when stress increases, selectively ignore parts of the sensory input.
 
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starblade

Guest
As for not getting an invite into the relic force, that was unfortunate. However, bear in mind that most of us were VERY busy organizing everything

I can only agree with Belomar. Receiving orders from chat group and passing them on in group and officer chat to make everyone exactly understand where to go and what to do made it so busy I must honestly admit I didnt even notice any /yells or /says.

I am sure this also goes for a lot of other people. However, this is still not an excuse for the ones being rude to you.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Being in an alliance doesn't help... didn't hear squat about it till they were well under way.
 
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jetsetminer

Guest
I was saddened when I heard about this from my guild mate Simius, this is a game all about grouping and playing together to achieve a shared goal, either XP'ing or capturing keeps / relics.

Now I can understand that being part of a small guild in a small alliance means that we didn't hear about the raid, that is fair enough from both a practical and security point of view.

However, once someone has realised there is a raid going on, and has managed to find the main force, why on earth would people be abusive and not want them to join? Especially a lvl 50 Sorcerer. There must have been some group there that wasn't full, and surely another lvl 50 is always useful to have.

Most of the replies have centered on us not knowing about the raid, which I think is only a side issuse here. Why on earth was help offered from a lvl 50 player who has been active in RvR in an under represented class not welcome / needed in the raid? And even if there is a good reason for this, why be abusive and insulting? It was clearly not just a "we didn't notice" issue as people must have noticed to be able to reply.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Good point, bitching at someone because they're not in a big guild that brought their own group when they're a
_very very very useful RvR class_

is just mind-numbingly stupid as well as plain wrong.
 
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TheKiddy

Guest
Got to agree with Fingoniel, i am part of The Fellowship alliance and i was off helping to take back keeps in our own frontier and didnt find out about it before they were on the doors at Hib relic
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Obviously it doesn't matter about alliances - you just have to be in a big guild to help your realm ...

not that I'm at all bitter or miffed :p
 
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Jiggs

Guest
i don't have much to say on this except sometimes its hard to catch a /say when you got chat group, guild chat, group chat and /sends going on all at once.

most relic raids i just seem to get people bitching for not rezzing enough (like us friars and clerics have unlimted mana or something)

glad we got the relic though :p means hib casters kill us in 4 second instead of 3 :eek:
 
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alithiel50

Guest
Originally posted by Fingoniel
Obviously it doesn't matter about alliances - you just have to be in a big guild to help your realm ...

not that I'm at all bitter or miffed :p


There are well over a hundred guilds in Albion. It would be unreasonable to expect someone to contact the GM of every single one to invite them on a Relic Raid! Obviously the first points of call in arranging an event like this are going to be the larger and more RvR active guilds.

Having said that, Wildfire did a very good job of organising this raid :clap: - and I'm sure he let as many people as he could know about it.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason the Knights who say Ni got an invite is that Wildfire grew up in our ranks, and we still keep in touch with him..... :p
 
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jetsetminer

Guest
People seem to have missed my point, let me re-phrase it:

I understand that not every guild can be invited, and I understand that some people won't have noticed the request for group... But the ones that did notice were just abusive and insulting, what is the point in that? Why are people refusing a lvl 50 just because he is from a small guild?

Please can we have some discussion that deals with the real issue here, the eliteism and the "we are an uber guild, you're from one that is small - piss off" attitude that people seem to have.

Sorry if this seems a little exagerated, I am doing it on purpose to try and make sure my point comes across. I would like to see a discussion here, not flames.
 
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Simius

Guest
I have to agree with Jet here, the point of my thread wasn't that I didn't know about the attempt or didn't know where to go. I completely understand the need for security and the fact that contacting every GM is logistically impossible. The fact of the matter is, I offered to help and got nothing but abuse. And as for people not noticing my say and ingnoring me, how come I still got noticed enough to be shouted at for not bringing a guild group?
 
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old.Elfslayer

Guest
unfortunately you get sad people that just give you abuse. If you are looking for a grp in future, just msg me and I see if we have room in ours or one of our guild groups.
 
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statix

Guest
First Off , Well done all who took the relic Back yesterday
Great work Wildfire !!! :)

2nd . Sorry for what happened to you Simius. I think it was
uncalled for for you be shouted at for not bringing a full grp
and / or getting abuse for it.
Id just put the abusers on /ignore and move on.

The Relic raids and such are a high security operation so I
think if I was there and getting no answer it wouldnt bother
me too much . Id just stick on some poor unfortunate and tag along.
 
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old.Plebo

Guest
Bear in mind that the people in the bigger, more powerful guilds tend to be the players that are online for significant amounts of time each day as they have nothing much else to do. This means many are schoolkids.

In my experience of DAoC, the younger people tend to lack many of the communication skills that the older folk have.
 
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old.Wildfire

Guest
Firstly I'm sorry to hear that you were unable to find a group for the raid. Unfortunately incidents like this are not uncommon. I only hope that my repeated spam yells of orders for the evening were not misinterpreted as 'bitching'. When you have over a hundred people to talk to at once, and you need to make sure they all know what to do, it's the only way to do it.

My apologies also to the fellowship alliance for exclusion. I am not impartial, I am not unbiased, I am not perfect. I simply drew up a list of guilds that from my own experienes I felt would be able to do the job.

As far as security goes, the raid had been planned for a week to the day, before we actually went to dagda. Until 48 hours before the raid started, only the GMs of the guilds involved knew it was even happening. I'm saddened to hear of the lyonesse players (can we get some names to shame please?) who once again seem to be showing the worst side of the realm that I try to be proud to call home. We were also given a big scare about an hour or two before the raid started, by reports (rumours) that:

a) A mid player had found out from a friend who has two accounts, and decided to tell all the other mids 'because he thought it was unfair' that someone would play both realms. I felt it would have been a shame to lose a week's worth of planning and send all the guilds home with nothing though, so after venting my anger onto FC (sorry guys) the raid went ahead regardless.

b) Reports of hib/mid cross-teaming on IRC before the raid started. Lots of people were shouting that hibs were talking to mids on IRC and asking for help to defend their relics. As it turned out the mids must have had more decency than to be so underhanded, and actually had a shot at the relics themselves. Well played the mids. I'm more disappointed that people would even try this than anything else.

As a member of First Cohort, and as a BioSciences student, I do have to take offence at Plebo's post though... I got an A* and an A for english language/literature back when I did my GCSE's thankyou very much.
 
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old.Odysseus

Guest
Hmmmm in my world, A* is a pathfinding algorithm (which Mythic apperently knows nothing off).

:clap: and :m00: for Wildfire.
 
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old.Plebo

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
As a member of First Cohort, and as a BioSciences student, I do have to take offence at Plebo's post though... I got an A* and an A for english language/literature back when I did my GCSE's thankyou very much.

No offense intended. It was a generalisation and it is my observation that some of the younger players tend to be more interested in levelling/realm points rather than the social aspect of the game. Therefore, they are less likely to reply to a /send, and more likely to be offensive.

I don't for a minute think that this applies to all young players, many of whom are very nice.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Kudos on getting it home safe :clap: and I appreciate having to keep it secret etc.

think I was a overly miffed this morning (not enough coffee? :)) just upset our fellow 'the Fellowship' people didn't say anything :( can't blame Wildfire for not informing everyone in the realm personally :) hehe

oh well.. had a good time feeding RP to the mids outside Sauvage ;)
 
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Simius

Guest
Wildfire, gratz on doing a great job, and from your yells I could tell you had far more on your plate than to be bothered by a miffed Sorc. What my problem boils down to is a) Albions apparantly most wanted class was excluded for being in a small guild, and b) not only did some of the ppl who messaged me refuse to take me in their group, but some went so far as to accuse me of spying.... :/
 
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gestaltwhorl

Guest
Wildfire please substantiate b) please, as far as I'm aware at the time of your raid most high level hibs were either in DF on a legion raid or in the Albion frontier taking your keeps. Also why would the mids want to help us defend our relics when they currently only have one of their own?

Surely the speed of our response told you this as we only got enough people there once you made your second attack.

I don't want to take anything away from your raid, it was well planned and well executed but I do resent the idea that we were trying to get the Mids to help us out - that's just plain stupid. Respect to the Mids for their disastrous bit of opportunism, it was a nice plan and it took us a while to realise that you didn't have relic after all. (They sneaked a group of stealthers in whilst we fought the rest of their army - I think the guards got them and the relic was left neutral for a while).

Wildfire take your victory in good grace and don't try and denigrate us in the process
 
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nume

Guest
Originally posted by Simius
b) not only did some of the ppl who messaged me refuse to take me in their group, but some went so far as to accuse me of spying.... :/

They must have been very stupid to think a lvl50 guild affiliated player was a spy. The way in which you were treated is disgusting.

Personally I think that anyone who is has leveled 30+ should be treated with deserved respect in RvR. What gives anyone the right to treat another DAoC player that way?

Manners cost nothing
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by gestaltwhorl

Wildfire take your victory in good grace and don't try and denigrate us in the process

Don't think he was saying there was any crossteaming or whatever, he was saying he had a big scare due to _rumours_ of it happening (both spying and crossteaming).

Thankfully nothing that lame was going on, and I doubt the majority of our Hib or Mid enemies would stoop to that.
 

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