Guantanamo bay video released!

[Dukat]

Oh the humanity! hes crying and everything!

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | First Guantanamo video released

This is what we do with someone who throws a grenade at a soldier in a warzone? I thought we shot people who did that, not give them time to relax and comfort them when they cry.

And human rights groups are complaining about this? what?

 

[old.Tohtori]

"The video was filmed secretly through an air duct"

I very very much doubt that footage was "secretly taped", by some "secret human rights activist"...in a highly secure US military base. Smells like *sniffs* *cough* propaganda *cough*, yeah, deffo some government bull...oh gees...

Release this, call it "leaked footage" and do whatever the f*ck you want the rest of the time as peple go "ooh, that's not so bad".

 

[Thorwyn]

Regardless what he has done or not, there is absolutely NO right for anyone (and ESPECIALLY not for a "civilized" country that claims to be all for humanity and justice and what not) to deliberately ignore the Geneva Conventions and keep POWs in camps without observation by UN or any other third party surveillance. The fact that this is the first video, that "leaked" through and that they still deny all those POWs legal advice etc.etc. already indicates, that the US has something to hide.

 

[Ctuchik]

Regardless what he has done or not, there is absolutely NO right for anyone (and ESPECIALLY not for a "civilized" country that claims to be all for humanity and justice and what not) to deliberately ignore the Geneva Conventions and keep POWs in camps without observation by UN or any other third party surveillance. The fact that this is the first video, that "leaked" through and that they still deny all those POWs legal advice etc.etc. already indicates, that the US has something to hide.

so they are just gonna let them throw hand grenades at their soldiers and just give them a slap on the wrists as a punishment?

granted i dont believe that video to be anything but faked for a second tho.

 

[Thorwyn]

so they are just gonna let them throw hand grenades at their soldiers and just give them a slap on the wrists as a punishment?

Nope... but there are clear regulations on how to treat POWs and for some reason, the US claim the right to ignore those conventions (not allowing neutral observers in etc.).
Get me right here, I`m not defending what this guy or the other POWs did. I just think it a tad cheeky to start a war in the name of freedom, democracy and justice and the p*ss on your own moral goals. It´s not the first time that the US ignored international rights and by now, it should be clear to everyone that they are NOT the civilized country they claim to be.

 

[Sparx]

filmed secretly through an airduct with 3 cameras?

Smells fishy to me

 

[Helme]

More likely someone set up their own room and got some actors to gain supporters for their cause, coz how the fuck are they going to get cameras into the airducts? seriously. Obviously the media eats it up tho.

 

[Uara]

Its not secret filming. Its filming done by the US authorities, his defence lawyers wanted it to be released so people would know what he was encountering.(thts the jist I get)

 

[Binky the Bomb]

Its not secret filming. Its filming done by the US authorities, his defence lawyers wanted it to be released so people would know what he was encountering.(thts the jist I get)

Recorded from four angles, with crappy camera's, with terrible recording equipment and in such a poor quality that you can't really determine anything from it.

And its supposedly done in secret.

Anyone else think this has something of the "Genuine Alien Autopsy" about it?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Get me right here, I`m not defending what this guy or the other POWs did.

This i have to ask; do you accept what british/american soldiers did?

Soldiers are soldiers, there's no one way or other about it, so if you judge one, you should by all means judge the other.

 

[Sparx]

Its not secret filming

The video was filmed secretly through an air duct

Hmmm me thinks your wrong there Uara

 

[Uara]

lolz got me there, but obviously it was secretly filmed by the authorities as it stated that the authorities had to hand it over.
So not by some human rights person hidden in an air-duct.

 

[Thorwyn]

This i have to ask; do you accept what british/american soldiers did?

Soldiers are soldiers, there's no one way or other about it, so if you judge one, you should by all means judge the other.

The US should have stayed the hell out of Iraq, or at least they shouldn´t have lied about their intentions. That´s a different story though. They decided to declare war, they invaded the country and yes, now they´re all soldiers and should be treated accordingly. But that "accordingly" is the crucial part, as I said before.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The US should have stayed the hell out of Iraq, or at least they shouldn´t have lied about their intentions. That´s a different story though. They decided to declare war, they invaded the country and yes, now they´re all soldiers and should be treated accordingly. But that "accordingly" is the crucial part, as I said before.

Good good, as long as you're in the "every soldier the same" page, then there's no argument really

 

[Sparx]

Being an ex soldier i can tell you, you cant blame a soldier for his actions if he is following orders from higher up the chain

 

[Thorwyn]

Being an ex soldier i can tell you, you cant blame a soldier for his actions if he is following orders from higher up the chain

However, being an ex soldier, you should know that you´re *supposed* to disobey orders that are going against the human rights such as war crimes, otherwise you´re making yourself part-guilty. You can´t hide behind "orders from above".

 

[Downanael]

"secret movies" my ass,i'm getting mental image of 40'ish fat cameraman crawling around on the air ducts now

Maybe they hired ninjas thought.

 

[Lamp]

The Nazis couldn't claim "just following orders" at Nuremburg...

 

[old.Tohtori]

The Nazis couldn't claim "just following orders" at Nuremburg...

Godwins!

Was waiting for that.

But actually, most nazi soldiers and british soldiers talked all nice and such, shouting silly things at eachother when there wasn't any fighting about in trenches.

They were the same as the british soldiers, fighting because.

 

[Sparx]

However, being an ex soldier, you should know that you´re *supposed* to disobey orders that are going against the human rights such as war crimes, otherwise you´re making yourself part-guilty. You can´t hide behind "orders from above".

I refuse to get into this arguement, mainly because people who havent served can never fully understand how it all works

 

[old.Tohtori]

I refuse to get into this arguement, mainly because people who havent served can never fully understand how it all works

Well i've never served, but i think it's about so:

You disobey an order, more then often people will die.
If you can't follow orders all the time, and only follow them some of the time, you're a liability and can't be trusted as they don't know when you will follow orders.
If you can't be trusted, people more then often die.

Combat=fast paced=no time to think at times.
Chain of command exists so that less and less thinking needs/has to be done down the ladder and things get done.

About right?

 

[Raven]

Regardless what he has done or not, there is absolutely NO right for anyone (and ESPECIALLY not for a "civilized" country that claims to be all for humanity and justice and what not) to deliberately ignore the Geneva Conventions and keep POWs in camps without observation by UN or any other third party surveillance. The fact that this is the first video, that "leaked" through and that they still deny all those POWs legal advice etc.etc. already indicates, that the US has something to hide.

Yes there is, they are below scum and should be treated as such.

 

[megadave]

Yes there is, they are below scum and should be treated as such.

So if a british soldier shoots and kills some people while invading their country, but then gets caught and taken to a camp and tortured for a few years it's also ok?

 

[Dukat]

So if a british soldier shoots and kills some people while invading their country, but then gets caught and taken to a camp and tortured for a few years it's also ok?

To be fair, Raven almost certainly meant "them" as in terrorists in general, rather than this particular case, seeing as the person he quoted was also talking in generalisations.

In which case, he almost certainly meant terrorists like the 9-11 and 7-7 bombers who deliberately targetted civilians, people who are obviously not comparable to the british soldier, who is a lawful combatant targetting other lawful combatants.

 

[old.Tohtori]

To be fair, Raven almost certainly meant "them" as in terrorists in general, rather than this particular case, seeing as the person he quoted was also talking in generalisations.

In which case, he almost certainly meant terrorists like the 9-11 and 7-7 bombers who deliberately targetted civilians, people who are obviously not comparable to the british soldier, who is a lawful combatant targetting other lawful combatants.

TErrorists aren't POWs as was talked about.

 

[Raven]

What Duket said, sorry was cooking dinner at the time so couldn't go into detail.

There is a difference between people getting caught up in the cross fire as it were and actively targeting the public. Terrorists who target public buildings or people deserve to be fed their own intestines, soldiers who accidentally shoot at or kill the public need better training.

Terrorists are not POWs they are terrorists.

Oh and to be clear I am disgusted by the treatment of some POWs by allied soldiers, though I do believe these are isolated cases, bandwagoned by the media.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ah ok, just seemed like yyou meant "them" as in the opposing POWs, because of the quoting.

 

[Bahumat]

Fuck it, let him rot in there. You see all these terrorists releasing video's of people being beheaded. They dont care about the geneva convention.

 

[chipper]

Fuck it, let him rot in there. You see all these terrorists releasing video's of people being beheaded. They dont care about the geneva convention.

well said m8 as far as im concerned these fuckers have no rights at all, they arent soldiers. soldiers dont go out with the intention of killing civillians, yes it happens and thats unfortunate but they arent the intended targets, these are terrorists not soldiers there's a difference

 

[Golena]

There's far too much of people worrying about how scum is treated these days in the world imo.

These days we'd probably get concerned if some kid who had kicked an old lady to death complained because he didn't have the latest playstation games in his cell. If your going to fuck over people, don't complain if those people "win" and fuck you over instead.
The human race has pretty much proved in Britain that if you give everyone a utopian human rights state where you can't do anything bad to anyone else, the criminals win. While it's a nice theory, humans are currently not ready to actually live like it.