Grow some ....

[Filip]

1. void elds dont get high NS cos its on the light line,
2. void elds dont get high str/con debuff cos its on the mana line
3. void elds dont get high aoe desease cos its on the mana line
4. the debuff a Void eld gets is energy.. and single target... while they have cold nukes

Simple fact is u have just shown your ignorance by posting that, there are very few void elds that RvR simply cos its got such low utility... Fire wizzies have low utility and yet albs play them.

now the wizzie side of things :-
1. root - base path of ice single.. aoe root - path of ice
2. nuke with snare, nuke with debuff - path of ice
3. pbaoe - path of ice
4. aoe dmg with snare - path of earth
5. a second aoe root - path of earth

As for your pet argument, the underhill pet is good for interupting the same as any other pet.. a zealot nukes and debuffs and can stun.. if it does any of them the enchanters debuff or stun is greatly demeaned, an ally casts hot on the group and loses speed due to it so gets into fights near the end often, the tank pet well it can tank yippee... u even try to say what u said about a chanter pet when u have a cabalist.. u need to learn about this game before u type rubbish.

There isnt less utility in an alb group if u spec properly the problem is everyone specs the same way so u get no variance and use of the other abilities of the class. Hell you only just started learning to debuff body and lifetap, hibs have been debuffing and nukeing for years. If this isnt the case then i find it hilariously funny that i have never been debuffed and nuked till just before TOA.

If its not right that most albs only want to zerg then why is it even before NF there was constantly over 150 albs in emain, and now there is often over 200 albs on a keep at any time.

As i said before when u said theres never been an alb DH your not only clueless about your own realm but your basically admitting that theres very few good alb players. Fact is Black Falcons had THE best group going for a couple of months since TOA.. anyone who came up against them will admit they where as good as NP where in thier glory days. Infact i know Vulcan wanted Tahn every fight cos he was the only caster Vulcan worried about from a group.

The resist thing u pointed out i was clueless well let me ask you this if on a warden (rr4 ofc) with 26% cold resist i get nuked for less than 600 by a light eld (rr8btw) everytime unless he crits then how come you get hit harder.. bare in mind i have no druid resists.
There is room for a friar in the setup, a friar has body guard and can heal.. its essentially the same as our warden... take a paladin out of the group and take the Friar. The dmg potential on a hib group isnt super huge tbh, especialy now hibs run with 1 or 2 casters not always both pb.. the group is made to last longer.. if u outlast the other group u are fighting u win.. but all i heard from u is we would lose dmg potential.

I find it funny how your slagging people off for retiring due to an expansion pack that made alb superpowered cos of thier numbers when u "semi" retired cos of TOA... Perhaps this is you

well you will never understand i guess... but tbh i dont care.. live on in you world of ignorance..
you cant see that it is more than numbers who changed the balance in NF..

you keep misunderstanding a simple thing as the wizz spec lines..

and yes the void elds 2. spec line gonna be low .. but still usefull .. why do you think we got 3. speced cabbies?

you cant read my text and understand how the different patch's made a huge difference for albs .. for alb setup ... etc etc...

but i dont know you RL so tbh i dont care that you are stuck somewhere in dont-have-a-clue-land..

/wave

 

[Bracken]

So go on n wander around w the zerg u nogoodinrvr armsman carryin siege n be safe in numbers.

Sure, if it makes you happy




Oh and you might want to work on those one-liners btw

 

[Skilgannon]

No the reason you see many hibs and mids quiting atm is due to 2 things mainly

1. the foundation for what they enjoyed in doac..the fg vs fg in emian is Gone, they simply do not enjoy zerg vs zerg, even their zerg wins, it dosent matter, they simply dont like the game platform, siege's and so on..thats why they quit.
2. some have been bored of the game for a while, but there simply hasent been a real ulternative to daoc, wich now seems to have arrived with WoW.

Sorry. That is total bollox.

The gank groups say they enjoy fg vs fg, but the reality is different. What they enjoy is farming rps. If the rps are no longer farmable then they lose interest. Much closer to the truth.

 

[Vantros of the Delerium]

well you will never understand i guess... but tbh i dont care.. live on in you world of ignorance..
you cant see that it is more than numbers who changed the balance in NF..

you keep misunderstanding a simple thing as the wizz spec lines..

and yes the void elds 2. spec line gonna be low .. but still usefull .. why do you think we got 3. speced cabbies?

you cant read my text and understand how the different patch's made a huge difference for albs .. for alb setup ... etc etc...

but i dont know you RL so tbh i dont care that you are stuck somewhere in dont-have-a-clue-land..

/wave

That was almost a well thought out comeback.. its ok kiddo. FYI i have played a friends wizzie for a laugh and found it pretty easy, but u can live with your little blind view, i have no need to prove myself to you.. but what i will say is if its not numbers that can change the tide ask a friend (if u have any) that plays hib and try that... i bet you will be whineing about zerging albs within 3 hours. Now for example, Vodkafairy spent 1-2hours putting a hib zerg together.. it was about 100 hibs big.. they started on a keep and 300+albs walked through them.. NF is all about the size of the zerg...

As for the i dont-have-a-clue-land remark.. its so sweet that u learned l33t speak just for me, no really... its just sad to see that i know more about your realm than you seem to, the fact u asked me to show u on the char maker where the utility was and i showed u.. fact is u dont have a scooby. I dont misunderstand a wizz spec lines, the sad thing is i seem to see much more in them than u do.. u say we dont get things such as stre/con debuff.. but u dont seem to think that u where given 4 mages to start with we where given 3.... we are ment to be the magical realm.. we have 2 classes with an aoe root, a nature druid and a creeping animist (anis dont often get into groups simply cos if they cant stick pets down they are not to good atm with a lifetap which takes till next tuesday to cast).. how many u got.. lets see 3(wiz - earth, thurg - ice, sorc - body destruction),and root is a fantastic thing to use, usually we have 1 form of CC in our group and thats the bards mezz. (btw your saying we are overpowered cos we use 1 form of CC, while u have 3 sometimes more at least in groups u make up, try splitting on engage. works a treat) I am not even includeing the fact that all 4 mages get a single target root.. which i think is ment to make up for us haveing stun... although i can see why u see that to be unfair.. Fact is dont come here whineing cos you think your classes are the problem, cos they are not.. your classes are great..

I notice you never reverted back to my comment about you saying we lose dmg potential.. is that cos u admit i am right? Fact is a group needs to outlast the other group not out dmg them, 90% of the time u use aoes to try to outdmg hibs and break all your mezz and roots.. then whine when we own u.

You talk about alb setup, yes i can see the difference between your 3fg zerg and your 10fg zerg setups... Every other patch Hibs change thier fotm setup, usually its forced to change when mids or albs finally find a way to combat it effectivly, by makeing up a group format which wrks against the fotm hib group format. We did it for mids to.. there was 2 formats we ran like 1 was best suited for alb zergs the other for mids..

I'm gonna leave this post as it is cos if u dont get it now, u never will.. suppose its what i get for trying to actually make u understand that hibs havent ever really been overpowered.. a select few albs have always managed to beat us without zerging, same with mids.. its a little thing called skill.

 

[Boni]

well you will never understand i guess... but tbh i dont care.. live on in you world of ignorance..
you cant see that it is more than numbers who changed the balance in NF..

you keep misunderstanding a simple thing as the wizz spec lines..

and yes the void elds 2. spec line gonna be low .. but still usefull .. why do you think we got 3. speced cabbies?

you cant read my text and understand how the different patch's made a huge difference for albs .. for alb setup ... etc etc...

but i dont know you RL so tbh i dont care that you are stuck somewhere in dont-have-a-clue-land..

/wave

Learn how to debate would ya? 5/6 of those sentances are just mud slinging and the only one that almost qualifies (though contains no form of logic) as some type of statement is false.

Void elds 2nd spec line is low and not usefull at all. So much so that most void mages I know tend to spec 49/50 void as a few more + void points gains more than anything in the secondary lines.

Now before you go slinging mud and screaming names at me like 'stfu noob' and 'you know noting etc', you should probably realise that I was one of the most experienced void mages on hib/excal, and I would like to see you come up with a proper counter agrument for how a 28 sec aoe mezz, 45% nearsight, or some very low mana spells are really much use. Nearsight is the only half usable choice, and for that you have to nerf your debuffing ability by speccing lower void, watch it get resisted half the time, and well... with a spec and base bolt, why mess around nearsighting enemy casters with a 50% chance when you could just 1/2 shot them?

 

[Aarion]

Admittably sorcerer/cabbalist group probably was a bit overpowered pre-NF. That being said, i fail to see the argument that Albion should be stronger because they have 4 casters instead of 3. That allways was the problem of Albion - too many classes/speclines to spread the important assets in close-up fights.

Fact is Hibs didnt win due to being overpowered but cos we knew how to play our characters...
We run 2 druids to a group for a reason often albs dont have a cleric in a group so the reason u lose is cos u dont have a healer...
Hibs have never been the winning side by anything other than sheer skill...
we owned your zergs through skill and you cant handle that..

Vantros, have you ever seen "The Wave"? Quite an interesting movie about groupmentalism. I think you would find it interesting

PS:

Wanna talk about overpowered ok hows this animists got nerfed down to only being allowed 15pets cos it was deemed to powerful, and yet thurgs can cast as many pets as they are capable of, and those pets are powerful with abilities to stun nuke and melee..

that would be stun, nuke OR meelee. Besides the fact that theurgist pets goes inactive when/if target dies, its still 1/6 to 1/2 the duration of an animist baseline dd-turret. See the difference?

Aarion

 

[Overpowered]

Sorry. That is total bollox.

The gank groups say they enjoy fg vs fg, but the reality is different. What they enjoy is farming rps. If the rps are no longer farmable then they lose interest. Much closer to the truth.

Tbh I got more arpee in NF then before.. my weekly income tripled a week into NF(to 200k+ ish, not really that 1337, but good enough for a thane), but it wasnt any fun anymore. Just braindead slaughtering of masses. A macro could have been playing for most..

with a spec and base bolt, why mess around nearsighting enemy casters with a 50% chance when you could just 1/2 shot them?

Mid/Hib casters are twoshottable with bolts, but Alb casters aint due to higher af. Nearsight is handy then, but only to a certain degree..

 

[Vantros of the Delerium]

that would be stun, nuke OR meelee. Besides the fact that theurgist pets goes inactive when/if target dies, its still 1/6 to 1/2 the duration of an animist baseline dd-turret. See the difference?

Duration doesnt mean anything, why have the pet last longer than it needs to, thurgs have always been great chars, an animist was utter crap right up till FoP was introduced. Thurgs can make pets which hit hard and have a much longer range than an animist pet does... although i gotta admit i have laughed my arse off at albs killing the ani pets after killing a group with an animist init.. not the smartest thing ever. They nerfed ani pets btw so they have sod all hps, low duration, use shed loads of mana, and can be mezzed (its my belief correct me if i am wrong but thurg pets are not mezzable)

Admittably sorcerer/cabbalist group probably was a bit overpowered pre-NF. That being said, i fail to see the argument that Albion should be stronger because they have 4 casters instead of 3. That allways was the problem of Albion - too many classes/speclines to spread the important assets in close-up fights.

I didnt once say u should be stronger i said you have no right to complain about your classes and say they are the reason u always lose, putting it bluntly we used PB for ages and yet u had an ice wizzie with the same delve PB and wouldnt use it in the same way. You can easily get the same utility as we have in one of our groups. If u set up a group almost identicle to a hib group u would win very often if you get people who know thier chars, the problem is you just zerg.. a subject u keep side stepping and saying its cos your classes suck, well i disagree.. fact is Albion havent had the short end of the stick in any part of the game, you had great RA's, great classes and loads of people and yet u still lost for the better part of 3 years... embaressing me thinks.

Mid/Hib casters are twoshottable with bolts, but Alb casters aint due to higher af. Nearsight is handy then, but only to a certain degree..

So what your saying here is an alb mage can 2 shot a mid and a hib mage but they cant do that to albs... and yet they complain they are underpowered, i think the correct word is under-rated..

Vantros, have you ever seen "The Wave"? Quite an interesting movie about groupmentalism. I think you would find it interesting

Sorry never heard of it. is it good? how would i find it interesting? If its your attempt at a dig im afraid its sadly lost its point.. plz explain...

 

[Vindicator]

1. void elds dont get high NS cos its on the light line,
2. void elds dont get high str/con debuff cos its on the mana line
3. void elds dont get high aoe desease cos its on the mana line
4. the debuff a Void eld gets is energy.. and single target... while they have cold nukes

Simple fact is u have just shown your ignorance by posting that, there are very few void elds that RvR simply cos its got such low utility... Fire wizzies have low utility and yet albs play them.

now the wizzie side of things :-
1. root - base path of ice single.. aoe root - path of ice
2. nuke with snare, nuke with debuff - path of ice
3. pbaoe - path of ice
4. aoe dmg with snare - path of earth
5. a second aoe root - path of earth

As for your pet argument, the underhill pet is good for interupting the same as any other pet.. a zealot nukes and debuffs and can stun.. if it does any of them the enchanters debuff or stun is greatly demeaned, an ally casts hot on the group and loses speed due to it so gets into fights near the end often, the tank pet well it can tank yippee... u even try to say what u said about a chanter pet when u have a cabalist.. u need to learn about this game before u type rubbish.

There isnt less utility in an alb group if u spec properly the problem is everyone specs the same way so u get no variance and use of the other abilities of the class. Hell you only just started learning to debuff body and lifetap, hibs have been debuffing and nukeing for years. If this isnt the case then i find it hilariously funny that i have never been debuffed and nuked till just before TOA.

If its not right that most albs only want to zerg then why is it even before NF there was constantly over 150 albs in emain, and now there is often over 200 albs on a keep at any time.

As i said before when u said theres never been an alb DH your not only clueless about your own realm but your basically admitting that theres very few good alb players. Fact is Black Falcons had THE best group going for a couple of months since TOA.. anyone who came up against them will admit they where as good as NP where in thier glory days. Infact i know Vulcan wanted Tahn every fight cos he was the only caster Vulcan worried about from a group.

The resist thing u pointed out i was clueless well let me ask you this if on a warden (rr4 ofc) with 26% cold resist i get nuked for less than 600 by a light eld (rr8btw) everytime unless he crits then how come you get hit harder.. bare in mind i have no druid resists.
There is room for a friar in the setup, a friar has body guard and can heal.. its essentially the same as our warden... take a paladin out of the group and take the Friar. The dmg potential on a hib group isnt super huge tbh, especialy now hibs run with 1 or 2 casters not always both pb.. the group is made to last longer.. if u outlast the other group u are fighting u win.. but all i heard from u is we would lose dmg potential.

I find it funny how your slagging people off for retiring due to an expansion pack that made alb superpowered cos of thier numbers when u "semi" retired cos of TOA...

Its pretty unbelievable somebody thinks and reason's as you do.

1. Voids get Nearsight at a lower lvl. Yes you get an amazing spell which still has 35% reduce cast range at 2100 range. That is excellent utility to have on a character pal. Regardless of if its lower level. It's that the spell is probably the most useful spell for mages in RvR at the moment, besides maybe ther DD button ;>. I really cant understand how you dont see this? that spell is fantastic to have, go ask a caster who has a clue on hib and ask him would he trade it for anything.

2. Again, they dont get a high one but they still get the ability to strip hp's off there enemy. Thats basically like doing insta free dmg to them because the stripped hp's do not recover when the debuff wears off, if they survive being nuke of course, the lowering in con will increase your damage on them also. < As have some test's showin and im sure some Eld's could verify > This is only a secondary line so they not using this line for damage you see. It's for added utility to help them do there primary role better or give them other abilities in a fight.

3. Dont get a high aoe diease. hmmm guess what I'm going to say? thats right. It doesnt matter at all that its a lower lvl version, its the bloody effect that is desired. Ae diease is possible one of the best way's to kite / escape some tanks as it not only slow's the target but debuff's there str mildly. While at the same time half's all healing received on them, only if SH is not used ofc.

4. Hehehe, so you want eld's to be able to debuff there DD? Oh I think hib has enough self debuffs to merit you not getting such an ability. If you do group in RvR you will most likely be grouped with a mana chanter, as mana is pretty much the only viable line now as well, so I suggest you use you /assist your chanter friend and use your base heat DD regardless of if your spec'd in light or not. Should bring a smile or two ;>. Also you can debuff pbae dmg for both eld's and chanters, it may not be aoe but that would soo be overpowered heh.

The Point is that the eld gets to pump points into lower lvl but very useful utility spells. Wizards get to pump points into lower lvl damage spells which arent useful for doing damage and gain no/ tiny utility in exchange. That's whats been highlighted.

ps: I dont need to mention the wizard tid bits you so nicely put forward as it was already answered.

You just seem to leave things about dont you? Or maybe you really just dont know about them. I suspect the latter is true. Zealot pet's can stun ^^? That's new, must have added that a few patch's ago teehee. That ally is probably one of the best pet's to have in any group, the heal it cast's it will cast in combat or our of combat and once they get there uber hoods its just another keen to nuke ;>. Cabalist pets are decent agreed but then again cabalist's really are just a pet class / DD nuker. A Chanter is pbae / DD / pet class all in one without sacrificing anything, they used to be the best interupter's in hib back in the asd era's too ;>.

You know 16% of all people make up statistics on the spot. That about show's up your point.

you get nuked for near 600 damage or 450+ with 26% cold resist's eh ? . With that 25% resist pierce casters loved so much its not a surprise at all 600+ was a normal nuke on even decent resist protected groups. If you did indeed get nuked with the 10% resist pierce with 10% cast dmg and what not a rr8 eld should have then 450+ sounds right, if it was in the 25% era then well your masking the truth as im sure many light eld's and other hibs will testify. yes there is room for a Friar in a grp now post-toa and haha I love the way you just so casually say "take the pally out" guess you've just never played alb long enough to know much at all. You not only lose a shield tank, yes BG does most of the protecting these days but not against archers, but you lose end regain for the group. Im sure you may say "hibs casters dont need end!" well you might change your tune after you just cant get away from a sprinting savage / merc BL.

Now I know your probably wont agree with anything I've just said but thats not my fault and is your own short comings. Try to at least understand thou or ask your rr8 eld friend maybe ;>.

 

[Boni]

Why all the crap specualtion about void mages? Im not gonna roll a void eld so I can spec light seconday and get a crappy nearsight, ill roll a light eld and get a nearsight that doesnt get resited half the time and cripples other mages as opposed to being a slight inconvenience. Remeber sorc mezz range and wizzie bolt range? A crap nearsight and they can still use their primary tools by walking forwards a few steps.

Look at the spec lines, and see what you get for being void... you get one spec bolt that is only useable on low AF targets* thats what a void eld brings to a group. If you add a void mage you lose dmg output, they simply cant do anywhere near the amount of dmg a pb'er or light eld can.

*GT,AOE,exotic single target debuffs are all pretty useless for anything other than leaching at keep fights.

 

[Danya]

Sorry. That is total bollox.

The gank groups say they enjoy fg vs fg, but the reality is different. What they enjoy is farming rps. If the rps are no longer farmable then they lose interest. Much closer to the truth.

You'd know this how?

Also like the poster above I can make a hell of a lot more RPs in NF than OF, I can solo more RPs in a week in NF than I'd typically make in a group in OF, even with getting steamrolled by silly numbers half the time. But zerging about farming other zergs just isn't that fun.

 

[Vodkafairy]

atm im 46 void and 28 light or something like that, it's a pretty nice spec really. i think even with lightspec the dd damage is pretty shit so i assist the chanter with base dd after debuff.

next to that the bolts are really nice, not for the damage alone, but because a dd and bolt land at the same time. spec bolt hits for around 550-650 damage on alb mages and 650-750 on mid ones, and the DD hits for ~400 at the same time. if the mage doesnt get an insta really fast, they will die

also gtae is nice in towers, energy and body debuff (for anis) is a nice tool to kill high resist tanks with, stun > debuff > cap pbae dmg.

i think an elds job is mostly debuffng an interrupting, which you can do also with voidspec. i have the first ae d/q debuff and 45% nearsight, only thing i REALLY miss is my ae disease. in the best fights in old emain i was mostly spamming ae disease and occasionally stunned/assisted on the MA's target. also against albs i took our the mages really fast but without relics you cant do that anymore, not against good clerics.

with void i just spam ae dd on a low hp target for ae interrupting, say what you want, but it is nice. also you can keep a zerg at bay by spamming it, they all get hit and panic etc. id say disease is better, but still, the dd has its charms also. and ofcourse its better in towers oh and theurgpet killing, cant do that easy as lighteld because of resistrate on lowlvl pbae, but one void ae dd does the trick

all in all, void isnt much worse than light. i would say for fg vs fg, light is superiour still because of a lil better nearsight, d/q debuff and mana as secondairy line. but if you want a mix between roaming and towerdefence, void is the spec you want

that covers most of it i think

ooh, when a mage is just rezzed and doesnt have his AF shields up, throw a specbolt his way and he instadies. best hit so far was 1122(cap) + crit, total damage was 1645

 

[Vodkafairy]

lol at that guy saying fg vs fg is about rp farming rather than fun, you are soooo wrong. a fair fg fight is challenging, thrill of using your class to the max to be able to win.

adding = no challenge
outnumbering = no challenge

and why do i rvr?

HEY

for a challenge

 

[Vasconcelos]

1. void elds dont get high NS cos its on the light line,
2. void elds dont get high str/con debuff cos its on the mana line
3. void elds dont get high aoe desease cos its on the mana line
4. the debuff a Void eld gets is energy.. and single target... while they have cold nukes[/URL]

1. Neither does the spirit caby or the runecarving rm
2 and 3. So what? Every caster in the game has only x1 spec points per level, the same problem have the runemasters who go runecarving and cant spec high ns or the spirit cabies who cant spec high body or the light elds who cant spec cold debuff (same goes for rms nuke with lower cold resist effect)
4. Your realm self debuffer is the chanter, 1 self debuffer per realm sorry. "Singel target..." waaa? You pretend to get aoe resist debuff? Must be something Mythic is preparing for its next new expansion mid class.

Simple fact is u have just shown your ignorance by posting that, there are very few void elds that RvR simply cos its got such low utility... Fire wizzies have low utility and yet albs play them.

now the wizzie side of things :-
1. root - base path of ice single.. aoe root - path of ice
2. nuke with snare, nuke with debuff - path of ice
3. pbaoe - path of ice
4. aoe dmg with snare - path of earth
5. a second aoe root - path of earth
[/URL]

There arent many void elds because light n mana lines are far better.

1. AoeRoot its on earth line, no aoe root on ice line
2. baseline alike nuke 179delve n slow casting speed; the nuke with 10% debuff is not even worth to keep on QB since ToA arrival due to the way resist piercing works
4. 5. Mighty spells from earth wizz, same version than the crap spells their mid n hib counterparts get on unpopular lines (might be the reason why those lines are unpopular mayhaps? )

As for your pet argument, the underhill pet is good for interupting the same as any other pet.. a zealot nukes and debuffs and can stun.. if it does any of them the enchanters debuff or stun is greatly demeaned, an ally casts hot on the group and loses speed due to it so gets into fights near the end often, the tank pet well it can tank yippee... u even try to say what u said about a chanter pet when u have a cabalist.. u need to learn about this game before u type rubbish.[/URL]

So whats the diff btwn chanter pet n caby? Before you mention chain stuns, happens once in a week.
Pets are pets, from 5 caster classes of alb 3 of em can use pets. Hib has 4 caster classes and 3 of em can use pets. I would say the things are tied here

There isnt less utility in an alb group if u spec properly the problem is everyone specs the same way so u get no variance and use of the other abilities of the class. Hell you only just started learning to debuff body and lifetap, hibs have been debuffing and nukeing for years. If this isnt the case then i find it hilariously funny that i have never been debuffed and nuked till just before TOA.[/URL]

Not, its just that Alb needs more classes to fill the same utility needings. And during patches n patches the maxed utility n balanced alb grp has suffered from the lack of elemental resists and disease. Yet, it all came to teamworking, playerskill n wise use of wot u had, so there were quite a few alb grps who performed very well (even if they had to cope with chanter/healer asd bugging, LeftAxe n quadhitting etc.. etc..)
Funny you mention alb debuff grps, assuming u mean the one with all sorcs n cabies n 2 clerics... well, lets say it for real, any good guild/grp from mid/hib with a good balance of classes (i.e some tanks) destroyed into pieces that setup (dunno how is NF, havent played much n dont know if sorc+cabies grps still around), Grv, JH, RR, some mixed hib grps with bms, ... spring to my mind.

If its not right that most albs only want to zerg then why is it even before NF there was constantly over 150 albs in emain, and now there is often over 200 albs on a keep at any time..[/URL]

NF made the game a totally different one. Its a game focused on keep warfare where numbers shine. You cant avoid it, trust me, even if u tried it hard, its imposible to stay away from twrs, mainly coz it comes a point when there are no enemies around cept near twrs. So even the 1 or 2 roaming guilds/grps around are forced to go to twrs/keeps fights.
Mythic thought it would be cool, epic fights in the name of Arthur etc etc, but among all the mistakes n missconceptions they made when doing NF, there is 1 great n esential: THEY DIDNT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE MASS POPULATION IMBALANCE OF THIS GAME DURING YEARS. So, in the end Mythic has failed to see wot was going on with their own game (and im not gonna discuss here the consecuences fo this coz everybody can check the server selection screen and populations nowdays)
Back on point, albs zerg twrs/keeps because they can. Sure they could spread all over twrs/keeps of 1 realm but ofc its more funny to fight players than NPCs so in the end, they just go where the flames are. Its a basic behaviour, if they would like to fight vs NPCs they would go PVE.
Its a shame hib doesnt have the same population than mid. Game would be better for the ones who enjoy NF.

The resist thing u pointed out i was clueless well let me ask you this if on a warden (rr4 ofc) with 26% cold resist i get nuked for less than 600 by a light eld (rr8btw) everytime unless he crits then how come you get hit harder.. bare in mind i have no druid resists.
There is room for a friar in the setup, a friar has body guard and can heal.. its essentially the same as our warden... take a paladin out of the group and take the Friar. The dmg potential on a hib group isnt super huge tbh, especialy now hibs run with 1 or 2 casters not always both pb.. the group is made to last longer.. if u outlast the other group u are fighting u win.. but all i heard from u is we would lose dmg potential...[/URL]

Well dont know the relationship btwn druid resists n eld cold nukes but well, there is a huge diference btwn going in a grp with body n cold resists maxed (like hibs, and mids to some extend). Said it above, albion suffered from the lack of it during many many patches, simply coz there was no room for a friar in a grp if you wanted to keep it balanced n sucesfull. After ToA the situation imprved a bit due to bodyguard n grapple and ST after NF, but before.... unless you were in full casters grps (far from balanced but well.....) and even so it was weird to carry end pots, you needed a paly for end regen. Dunno how is now, maybe replacing the paly for a friar is worth the effort of carrying loads of end pots on your friendly reaver+merc.


Uff cant believe i replied all of this

 

[Vodkafairy]

sorry for a third post i didnt read up,

a void eld isnt really inferiour to fire wizards, they're just really different. they give up damage for utility.

bolting a spec af target isnt all that hot, a disadvantage you dont have to worry about as firewiz. also you have higher delves, MUCH higher dd and ae dd damage. but you have fuck all else

elds have lower values on all damage spells, have lower damage on bolt against albs cus of spec af, but more utility

it evens out really

 

[Vasconcelos]

sorry for a third post i didnt read up,

a void eld isnt really inferiour to fire wizards, they're just really different. they give up damage for utility.

bolting a spec af target isnt all that hot, a disadvantage you dont have to worry about as firewiz. also you have higher delves, MUCH higher dd and ae dd damage. but you have fuck all else

elds have lower values on all damage spells, have lower damage on bolt against albs cus of spec af, but more utility

it evens out really

Cant rly see the joy of fire wizz bolts. You cant kill a buffed with decent resists enemy with em. For those its far far far better stun+nuke or debuf+nuke (or stun+debuff+nuke in case of chanters) specially on twr/keeps fights where your enemy can go out of LOS (stun rly shine there).
Sure the 2 fire bolts are killers for stealthers n unbuffed rr3 casters but you dont need bolts in order to 2 shot those.

In the NF era, I would take a stun+nuke (mebbe mixed with aoe stre/cons debuff or heat debuff) over 2 bolts anytime. Personally, i tried a 47 light rest mana luri eld on Gorre, and it was ubah fun to defend a twr from some random albs, stre/cons debuff+mezz n pick a couple of casters you wanted to 3 shot. It was Gorre tho

 

[Vodkafairy]

Cant rly see the joy of fire wizz bolts. You cant kill a buffed with decent resists enemy with em. For those its far far far better stun+nuke or debuf+nuke (or stun+debuff+nuke in case of chanters) specially on twr/keeps fights where your enemy can go out of LOS (stun rly shine there).
Sure the 2 fire bolts are killers for stealthers n unbuffed rr3 casters but you dont need bolts in order to 2 shot those.

In the NF era, I would take a stun+nuke (mebbe mixed with aoe stre/cons debuff or heat debuff) over 2 bolts anytime. Personally, i tried a 47 light rest mana luri eld on Gorre, and it was ubah fun to defend a twr from some random albs, stre/cons debuff+mezz n pick a couple of casters you wanted to 3 shot. It was Gorre tho

i consider stun utility and not damage, i didn't mention it but yes in keepfights etc it is overpowered. you don't know what it is like to use it tho, because often when you cast stun it lands when the target is out of LoS already because of laggy shit

in a tower you often only have time to throw out a bolt or 2 and you HAVE to get out of los or you will die. stun is not useful for tower defence, high damage bolts are

sure you cant kill a decent target, but a 800 bolt > ~600 bolt. especially on someone w/o optimal gear

 

[Helme]

i consider stun utility and not damage, i didn't mention it but yes in keepfights etc it is overpowered. you don't know what it is like to use it tho, because often when you cast stun it lands when the target is out of LoS already because of laggy shit

in a tower you often only have time to throw out a bolt or 2 and you HAVE to get out of los or you will die. stun is not useful for tower defence, high damage bolts are

sure you cant kill a decent target, but a 800 bolt > ~600 bolt. especially on someone w/o optimal gear

Dunno how it is from alb point of view but that sort of summed it up, put your head over the wall and you got a zillion scout arrows in you

 

[Boni]

Nice to see someone sticking up for their void spec.

The main reason I wont spec void any more is they just cant deal with decent AF targets on the ground without being part of an assist team. I would have swapped my utility from other lines for a decent spec DD like fire wiz has, void elds have too much utility and not enough dmg for open rvr, though im sure they are one of the strongest classes for keep defence.

 

[Konah]

but among all the mistakes n missconceptions they made when doing NF, there is 1 great n esential: THEY DIDNT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE MASS POPULATION IMBALANCE OF THIS GAME DURING YEARS.

indeed, they copied Planetside but forgot PS had population balance built in from the word go

 

[Hotrats]

There isnt less utility in an alb group if u spec properly the problem is everyone specs the same way so u get no variance and use of the other abilities of the class. Hell you only just started learning to debuff body and lifetap, hibs have been debuffing and nukeing for years. If this isnt the case then i find it hilariously funny that i have never been debuffed and nuked till just before TOA.

As i said before when u said theres never been an alb DH your not only clueless about your own realm but your basically admitting that theres very few good alb players. Fact is Black Falcons had THE best group going for a couple of months since TOA.. anyone who came up against them will admit they where as good as NP where in thier glory days. Infact i know Vulcan wanted Tahn every fight cos he was the only caster Vulcan worried about from a group.

The resist thing u pointed out i was clueless well let me ask you this if on a warden (rr4 ofc) with 26% cold resist i get nuked for less than 600 by a light eld (rr8btw) everytime unless he crits then how come you get hit harder.. bare in mind i have no druid resists.
There is room for a friar in the setup, a friar has body guard and can heal.. its essentially the same as our warden... take a paladin out of the group and take the Friar. The dmg potential on a hib group isnt super huge tbh, especialy now hibs run with 1 or 2 casters not always both pb.. the group is made to last longer.. if u outlast the other group u are fighting u win.. but all i heard from u is we would lose dmg potential.

Most of what I wanted to say to this has already been said by Tentagel...

Not, its just that Alb needs more classes to fill the same utility needings. And during patches n patches the maxed utility n balanced alb grp has suffered from the lack of elemental resists and disease. Yet, it all came to teamworking, playerskill n wise use of wot u had, so there were quite a few alb grps who performed very well (even if they had to cope with chanter/healer asd bugging, LeftAxe n quadhitting etc.. etc..)
Funny you mention alb debuff grps, assuming u mean the one with all sorcs n cabies n 2 clerics... well, lets say it for real, any good guild/grp from mid/hib with a good balance of classes (i.e some tanks) destroyed into pieces that setup (dunno how is NF, havent played much n dont know if sorc+cabies grps still around), Grv, JH, RR, some mixed hib grps with bms, ... spring to my mind.

Few points though, first you mention we don't spec properly and that this is why we have less utility than mids/hibs. I disagree, like I stated in my original post the problem with albs was that their key abilities are spread over so many different spec lines on all the different classes that we couldn't fit them all into one group, at least until NF (when as you state we can take a friar).

Then you mention the fact that albs took a while to catch on to the debuff and nuke combo. Firstly we are talking cabalists here, one of the most unpopular classes to play at the release of daoc. The best spec at the time if you were going to make one was matter for ae dot. Then mythic added resist debuffs and decided to put them in the spirit line (which up until that point was probably the worst spec line in the game). They also conveniently put them in the enchanters mana line which happened to already have an ever increasingly popular spell: pbae. This is why hibs have been debuff nuking for years, cus they were given in on a plate. For albs it either meant respeccing if you had a caba or rolling a new one if you didn't (which was a pain in the ass to level cus everyone thought caba's sucked). It wasn't until just before TOA like you say that alb debuff groups really caught on and that was because BAOD had finally been nerfed so caster groups could compete vs hibs.

I'm not saying alb has very few good players. I'm saying alb has very few good players who like to rvr in fg's and have the right setup and play with each other on a day to day basis to get good teamwork, this is the same for all three realms. The difference was that in mid/hib it was easier to get the right setup so less dedicated players could still be very successful in rvr vs their alb counterparts. No doubt BF are a good rvr guild and before TOA a lot of alb rvr guilds could give the likes of NP and DH a run for their money if they had all their high rr players logged on in their best group setup. I don't think any alb group won as many fg fights as NP and DH though.

600 nukes were either from a chanter after debuff or from a light eld who had 25% pierce and 20% relics. It was also rare to have a friar back in OF so quite often my heat resists would cap at 26% which barely covered the 20% bonus from the power relics. Since TOA taking a friar has become a good option because of BG, no argument there, removing the pala has some consequences though but it's nice that an alb group at last has the choice (pre TOA a pala was essential).


I've actually lost track on what time period we are talking about in daoc in this post. My original point was that the game has never been balanced for albs although it came close just before TOA (and was at it's worst during the asd era, nerf ppl like Sharpo who loved to abuse it and won loads of fights from it). Since the arrival of NF fg vs fg rvr potentially could be quite balanced again (cus of the new RA') but the new frontiers have ruined the fg game and as a consequence a lot of the decent rvr players have left from all realms which has pretty much made any testing of fg rvr balance impossible (as if it isn't hard enough anyway with all the zergs around!)

 

[Bracken]

I think Hotrats just summed up everything beautifully

 

[Vantros of the Delerium]

Well dont know the relationship btwn druid resists n eld cold nukes but well

Druids get the cold resist in hib..

Still i notice your side stepping the fact that hib dont make thier groups up for mass dmg output but to out last the other group, as far as we are concerned whoever gets OOM first loses.

1. Voids get Nearsight at a lower lvl. Yes you get an amazing spell which still has 35% reduce cast range at 2100 range. That is excellent utility to have on a character pal. Regardless of if its lower level. It's that the spell is probably the most useful spell for mages in RvR at the moment, besides maybe ther DD button ;>. I really cant understand how you dont see this? that spell is fantastic to have, go ask a caster who has a clue on hib and ask him would he trade it for anything.

A voidie will get a low value NS which gets resisted often i know cos it would be the same NS as my mana eld had before i respeced to light.

Infact your whole argument is about them ahveing access to it and not it being high lvl.. ok u come hib and test the char out useing those things u speak of.. bet u get annoyed fast at how often they get resisted... haveing them means shit if they are next to useless...

4. Hehehe, so you want eld's to be able to debuff there DD? Oh I think hib has enough self debuffs to merit you not getting such an ability. If you do group in RvR you will most likely be grouped with a mana chanter, as mana is pretty much the only viable line now as well, so I suggest you use you /assist your chanter friend and use your base heat DD regardless of if your spec'd in light or not. Should bring a smile or two ;>. Also you can debuff pbae dmg for both eld's and chanters, it may not be aoe but that would soo be overpowered heh.

plz point out where i said i wnated to be able to debuff my own dmg?? omg u thick idiot i was asked to show the utility on a wizard and i did... plz read the whole thread intead of just the parts u can understand.

Or maybe you really just dont know about them. I suspect the latter is true. Zealot pet's can stun ^^?

yes they can its similar to our mages stun it just doesnt happen very often, had a zealot save my ass afew times when playing my GFs chanter in DF... but it lasts all of 2 seconds i think not a very good one at all.. and comepletely ruins the chanters stun if he casts it.. thats why zealots are not often used in RvR.

That ally is probably one of the best pet's to have in any group, the heal it cast's it will cast in combat or our of combat

That heal is a HoT, for 5hp a tick i believe, it does have the ability to heal yes but putting it bluntly in RvR it rarely gets the chance.

You know 16% of all people make up statistics on the spot. That about show's up your point.

Hmm funny when i did statistics for my degree we where told it was 40% oh well.

I wouldnt say anything about catsers not needed end, but why not go with a setup similar to hib ones.. 3 tanks, 2 clerics, 3 casters.. if thats your preference... make one of the tanks a mincer, one a Friar and one a Paladin, 2 clerics one more smite one more augment (both pretty high rejuv), ofc 1 mage is a sorc, probably 1 a caby and the third can be an alternate... dont see u loseing much utility there... Personally i would take a ice wizzie for the PB, Friar goes offensive and pulls back to defend if needed, mincer stuns and assist the friar.. the paladin hangs back much like our heros do and slams anything that gets close to the pb'er.. once slammed pb dead..

Plz let me know if i have missed some utility, would be interesting to know what else u feel an alb group needs.

Good luck anyway...

 

[Vindicator]

Firstly Im not going to resort to pathetic name calling like you decide to in your reply. I do enjoy a good debate and dont feel the need to lash out at people that give there opinion I dont like ;>

A voidie will get a low value NS which gets resisted often i know cos it would be the same NS as my mana eld had before i respeced to light.

Infact your whole argument is about them ahveing access to it and not it being high lvl.. ok u come hib and test the char out useing those things u speak of.. bet u get annoyed fast at how often they get resisted... haveing them means shit if they are next to useless...

Funny how a rr4 eld, which you dont play so much or often these days eh?, is the only 1 complaining about how much there uber little spell NS gets resisted so often ;>. Where are those rr7+ eld's here moaning about there resist rate on ns ^^? It may be a lower lvl spell but its not resisted half as much as you whine but regardless of that you still dont even acknowledge the uberness of having access to this spell, surely tri-spec caba's would be whining about there ns resist rate also eh? Funny there not either. You just said having a lower lvl version of NS in your 2nd spec next to useless heh, I just keep reading that over and over.

plz point out where i said i wnated to be able to debuff my own dmg?? omg u thick idiot i was asked to show the utility on a wizard and i did... plz read the whole thread intead of just the parts u can understand.

You state 4. in your utility line comparasion up to a wizard, or lack of real utility as you try and fail to illustrate. Interestingly enough you decided to include root for the wiz but not stun for the eld and if ther spec'd in light, suggested as in your having low lvl NS, then they have a low pwr useage aoe interupt ae mezz spell. Yes it has shit duration but its still quite nice to have low pwr ae interupt. Anyway, In that comparasion you go on to say that a void eld has an energy debuff but has a cold DD. Now unless your just trying to confuse your self, why would you take about your own DD damage and then mention a debuff your class has. Surely thats exactly like saying " A body sorc has a fire debuff but has a body DD". Well duhh!! You can try prance around the terms of what you said now that you see how silly it seems but its still quite apparent of your intention with that statement unless you would like to clarify more pal and maybe then I can 'read' it more clearly and understand your really 'difficult' text ;>.

yes they can its similar to our mages stun it just doesnt happen very often, had a zealot save my ass afew times when playing my GFs chanter in DF... but it lasts all of 2 seconds i think not a very good one at all.. and comepletely ruins the chanters stun if he casts it.. thats why zealots are not often used in RvR.

That heal is a HoT, for 5hp a tick i believe, it does have the ability to heal yes but putting it bluntly in RvR it rarely gets the chance.

So its useful then if it saved your azz a few times, thanks. As for 'putting' it bluntly you seem to have missed the point and your statement sort of contradicts its self. The whole point is it does get the chance to heal because it cannot be interupted unless stunned ;>.

Hmm funny when i did statistics for my degree we where told it was 40% oh well.

I wouldnt say anything about catsers not needed end, but why not go with a setup similar to hib ones.. 3 tanks, 2 clerics, 3 casters.. if thats your preference... make one of the tanks a mincer, one a Friar and one a Paladin, 2 clerics one more smite one more augment (both pretty high rejuv), ofc 1 mage is a sorc, probably 1 a caby and the third can be an alternate... dont see u loseing much utility there... Personally i would take a ice wizzie for the PB, Friar goes offensive and pulls back to defend if needed, mincer stuns and assist the friar.. the paladin hangs back much like our heros do and slams anything that gets close to the pb'er.. once slammed pb dead..

Plz let me know if i have missed some utility, would be interesting to know what else u feel an alb group needs.

Good luck anyway...

hmm funny you seem to be de'void' of humour also. I'm not going to explain that comment to you because humour's like a Frog. If you dissect it. It dies.

As for group setup's your going on about, well thats a conversation thats had all too often on these boards and if your finding it hard to get the grasp's of something a simple as cross or spread utility on a class then when it comes to a realm or full group your in the deep end with lead weights attached to your head.

Just quickly thou, it's nice you class a minstrel as a tank. Nice compliment but when it comes time to deliever on the damage end I think the enemy will have the last laugh. Ye friar's are good, pity he'll be grapple spamming / BG'ing most of the fight to do any damage anyway. Anyway a BL merc is far superior to have in a group for interupt's / base det / charge and what not. If anything I would actually drop that pally for a BL merc and have the friar on BG'ing duty.

2 clerics
Friar -BG
Merc - BL
Sorc - Mind
Cabby - tri-spirit.

At that point you really have to decide what the emphasis or more importantly playstyle of your group is going to be. Could be to throw in a pally / reaver or possibly go for a the caster option of Wizard / body sorc duo, possibly just going with x2 body sorc's for the rr5 RA / pets / mezz immune etc. Then there's the split option of the theurg to offer good interupt and reaver for dmg / interupt helping the Merc upfront.

There's far too many variables to really comment on an 'uber' fg setup as personalities and devotion tend to bend what really happens to what should happen.

Well have fun ;>...

 

[Nuked]

is it really worth quoting each other over this retarded post, i mean honestly, what in the blue hell does the level of your nearsight have to do with the original post?

and btw .. lower level ns does get resisted an awful lot, but on the other hand it's near enough instant cast so as long as you get it within 3 tries you havnt lost out on too much time

 

[Flimgoblin]

i consider stun utility and not damage, i didn't mention it but yes in keepfights etc it is overpowered. you don't know what it is like to use it tho, because often when you cast stun it lands when the target is out of LoS already because of laggy shit

in a tower you often only have time to throw out a bolt or 2 and you HAVE to get out of los or you will die. stun is not useful for tower defence, high damage bolts are

sure you cant kill a decent target, but a 800 bolt > ~600 bolt. especially on someone w/o optimal gear

stun stops _them_ getting out of los being stunned in los of 2+ enemy nukers = dead.

Despite what I might like to think my smite cleric doesn't often nuke anything down solo - but stunning things in los and laser-painting them works quite well

Of course if there's 40 scouts waiting to fill you with arrows the moment you stick your neck out you've got a problem getting the stun off in the first place but there ye go

 

[Iorlas]

Vantros of the Delerium....Please get a clue about ice wiz before you open your mouth and start spouting compleate crap,yet another know it all who in fact knows sod all.... shut it :kissit:

 

[Mithradir]

Imo if an enchanter or eld reroled to a wizard he couldnt have stand it most than a week.

Generally i believe that mids and hibs have more classes with great utility compared to albs. Albs have the numbers and that "theoriticaly" equals the things.

But this is that we want from daoc. Albs to win mostly because of numbers and hibs or mids to win becasue mostly of their utility? I dont know about u but for me becomes so tiring to know that at 90% there is no way to win some classes and for u that at 90% u ll get zerged

 

[Jupiter]

u excalibur dudes are funny, in a sad sorta way.... :kissit:

 

[Clipse]

AD and BF >>>>>>> GoL Bigtime !!!

http://daoc-stats.com/top50guilds.php?server=all&realm=Albion