grouping rangers = 0

[old.Phlobin]

Hello everybody,
the only times i get groups is when i start one. Most of the groups i lead go very well, thats at least the feedback i get from pple.

But its very annoying to see lots of pple around innis and not getting any group-invitation. In fact i have to see all the alts getting groups faster.

And its not just lack of a useful function in group. Most grouping depends on good playing as well.
But most of u dont even give it a try.

Another thing i percepted was that all the other rangers and nightshades and whoever has difficulties getting a group reproduce this behaviour.

Whats the point in this? seems like it is: "i rather play for myself. i want exp, who groups with me cant expect that i group with her or him out of free will if her/his class doesnt fit me altho i have places free in group and i know its a good player".

If this is right, it would be pretty low to reply: "if u dont like it quit daoc".
Come on pple, its not that hard to have some good groups including a ranger or 2. It just needs some good will, so plse think about it for a moment and have a look on the lfg-screen.

It cant be, that chars are socialy deleted, just because the class doesnt fit.

Enough from me. Start flaming (commenting) now

 

[Cloak_]

well,,,
I like to group ppl who usually cannot get grps (rangers / ns's)

Problem is at high lvl normally there are ppl who uve xp'd with for many many lvls and therefore are not confident allowing *new blood* into a grp

Mainly crap though as U wudnt be at that lvl unless U knew what U was doin (agg to many U's hehe)

Neway thats my 2 cents...

 

[Elric IA]

Just been in a group with Thranduil (level 41 ranger) in the EZ hunting azures. Had no problems at all and whilst certain classes are needed in groups (you always need a healer for instance), I have no problem with being in groups with rangers or shades. It is the people that play them that is more important as a gimp player cannot make up for a uber class.

 

[spankya]

Phlobin I know exactly where you are coming from on this, and it really annoys me too! I have a lvl40 ranger(Spanker) and I can never get a group! Only groups I get are from friends and guildmates. But then Spanker wanders to emain where lots of people want the 'rp farming scout' in their group..... This makes me really mad and shows that alot of people are only out for themselves and dont care about others or the realm. The thing that REALLY ultra annoys me is when people ignore a ranger/ns asking for a group. At least have the decency to speak to them, even if they cant join

I also play a bard, and often get groups and invite at least 1 NS or ranger in as many of u will know...

All I ask is: please be a bit more considerate to other people, as we are all here to have fun and should all be trying to help each other to lvl and have fun for the realm and ourselves.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

I don't really care if you are a ranger or nightshade, rvr or pve, if you can fit the slot required, you're in.

But it ain't my fault that a tank can tank better than a ns or ranger, and yes, i've heard it a lot of times - 'but with buffs i am as good as a tank', well, a tank with buffs is even better, it's as simple as that.

If there is no suitable tank, then yea, I'll give a spot to a nightshade or ranger.

In rvr, I only really see a viable group slot for a nightshade and not ranger, simply cus the nightshade can see other stealthers <better than rangers>.

If we have a group, and we still have space, and xp is good for all, I don't mind leechers or extra people coming in... I will never deliberately turn someone away if there is a space and role for them in the group.

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch

In rvr, I only really see a viable group slot for a nightshade and not ranger,

Yeah with your Cosantoir realm rank (or are you even lower?) you really know how the skirmishing goes :/

 

[old.Tzeentch]

I'm nowhere near your level of RPs Eleasias, but I've never actually noticed or realised any major function that a ranger can bring to a group <RvR>.

If you do have knowledge that I don't, on what rangers can do in a group, then please let me know.

Certainly, posting that I have a low RR doesn't do anything to help that?


FYI: I solo mostly in RvR also.

 

[old.Aeolus]

Getting back on topic.


I have to agree with some of the posts on here that the Ranger & NS classes are being neglected in groups and as some of you will know one frustrated ranger threw one in /as chat this week about this self same thing, and for his actions was demoted and wont be allowed /acspeak again.

I hear constant bitching in rvr about other realms stealther classes yet we do nothing to combat this by helping our own.

I have a NS alt and weve had to form a group of alts to level the ranger and NS classes so I know how difficult and frustraiting some feel.

I personaly will have a ranger or NS in any expo group or a second group, sometimes a third . Theres a few of us level 50's that have regular expo groups that are specifically there for leveling any class or con provided we have the basic group that can hold the aggro from the main body the rest can leech the expo. Its a nighmare to organise but this is done most nights.

This is not new news its well known that a few level 50's group up to level anyone and if any of you care to read some of the gratz threads on here most have been in these groups.

I would suggest that a few of the level 50's thats been in these groups give back a few hours of there playing time to get these guys up a few levels.

At the end of the day its in Hibernias best interest in the long term.

 

[old.dangleberryfinn]

just a thought

its just a thought but i think if ranger and NS teamed up they could be v effective as a duo PvE, the ranger would just play as he normally does solo but with tougher mobs and NS just stands on top of him stealthed rdy for PA combo wen enemy gets to ranger, might not be the best XP in the world but u got sum1 to talk 2 and watch ur back

 

[Alrindel]

Ranger/NS teams are extremely effective. Silent Death is a small guild on Hib/Excal for stealthers only, and (obviously) we have tried out just about every Ranger-Ranger, Ranger-NS, and NS-NS combination possible with groups of to 5.

My personal favourite was hunting pookhas near Ligen with Whandall (NS), who put himself halfway between me and the pookha, and would snare it as it ran towards me after i started shooting it. The snare would give me time 2 or 3 extra arrows, often all I needed, but if things went horribly wrong (miss-fumble-miss, the life of a ranger ) then he would be there to backstab away while I tanked as best I could.

Last night I was paired with Kiro (NS) farming deamhan hounds near Innis. This time we used something more like your strategy, with him standing on top of me stealthed, and then jumping in at the start of melee, allowing me to pull mobs much more powerful than I would be able to solo. However when we added a second NS to the group, we got an add from a hound that killed me and one of the shades, so for those we will probably stick to 2 (worst part of a Hibernian rogue group is that you have no crowd control, so dungeons and a lot of camps are out of the question). Oh, and as you say, someone to watch your back - a couple of times deamhan aeirs popped on top of us, which can be a nasty shock if you're solo, but no problem at all to melee down fast for a ranger-NS pair.

 

[old.Cru]

Originally posted by old.Phlobin
Hello everybody,
the only times i get groups is when i start one. Most of the groups i lead go very well, thats at least the feedback i get from pple.

But its very annoying to see lots of pple around innis and not getting any group-invitation. In fact i have to see all the alts getting groups faster.

And its not just lack of a useful function in group. Most grouping depends on good playing as well.
But most of u dont even give it a try.

Another thing i percepted was that all the other rangers and nightshades and whoever has difficulties getting a group reproduce this behaviour.

Whats the point in this? seems like it is: "i rather play for myself. i want exp, who groups with me cant expect that i group with her or him out of free will if her/his class doesnt fit me altho i have places free in group and i know its a good player".

If this is right, it would be pretty low to reply: "if u dont like it quit daoc".
Come on pple, its not that hard to have some good groups including a ranger or 2. It just needs some good will, so plse think about it for a moment and have a look on the lfg-screen.

It cant be, that chars are socialy deleted, just because the class doesnt fit.

Enough from me. Start flaming (commenting) now

Hey Phlo! It's Cru Agree fully mate /claps

 

[Chameleon]

I often have probs getting a group, but not cos im an ns. Most groups in decent xp areas have 8. I just wait around a bit till others turn up and then start a group.
All players are useful in groups ... rangers are great pullers with their bow and ns's kill mobs A LOT quicker than tanks do (who needs to be able to take hit after hit if the mobs dead before he gets a chance!?!?!?!?)
You just have to get to know people who you can xp with regularly, be patient in waiting for the right group if you are not with 'regulars', make xp groups from your guild, or offer to help lower level players xp and let them help you too (if u pick the right mob). All classes have to go about xp'ing and getting groups in their own seperate way. The more I play, the more I learn about how to get the right group, at the right time, for the right xp. Just takes patience. Enjoy the experience though, otherwise it aint worth playin at all.

 

[Gorguss]

NS are nice to have in the group but I've had some bad experiences with rangers to say that I like to have then in the group, at least the big groups.

First, they should use their ¤"#& bow.
Second, they should be careful using their #¤&% bow so they don't use all their follow up shots so it's impossible to take aggro and hence wasting the healers mana.
Third, they are NOT tanks.(I as a Champion knows how much hp has to say becouse we are almost on the same hp table as rangers but we get to use scales but are seldom looked upon as decent tanks)
Fourth, they sometimes complain about the exp becouse THEY can solo yellows and even the occational orange and gets this and this much exp for it.

Sort of a flame but it's meant to help Rangers not to become the baaad Ranger.

And yes, I group with nice rangers. They are very valuable, especially in small teams imo.

Edit: Just read my own post and it seemed a little bad
Changes: A ranger CAN tank with the proper druid and warden but will never do it as good as a Hero or another Guardian class.
Most rangers are nice and pleasant people, there are few that are real bastards.

 

[Alrindel]

Generalizations like that don't help anyone - I can tell you from the rogue point of view it feels like it's usually the tanks who are the first to complain about the poor group exp, and push us to go for higher and higher mobs until we all get wiped out and lose all our gains.

Good group players are good group players and bad group players are bad group players, and some of them are rangers and some of them are champions.

 

[Kobold]

Just have to add in a few comments here, since I've tried both ranger/NS/tank, well my ranger I soloed from lvl 1-37. I tried group a few times, but I've never felt that useless in a group before. I tried use both bow and melee, and it's all just a little damage add comared to mages it's shit (yeh it's really sad).

In a group ranger or shade are far from as good as a tank but with a warden (6 sec bub) and druid and a hero to guard they can can do good as replacment for a tank in a pbaoe group, but still not as good as a tank. And it was saied NS are better to pull than tanks...ever heared of champ insta with 4x range hehe

But I must say I have never had so much fun in RvR as with my ranger, first time RvR as ranger I went to yggdra alone at lvl 21 and killed 3 orange and a yellow con...very fun...but they really are not good in xp groups, thats just the brutal truth.

 

[Xero-X]

yes us rangers do get neglected from groups but rangers are great soloers , there are plently of plant / tree type mobs for lvl 40+

and if u get lucky u can get a fins group as a seni tank or if ur 45+ u can fully tank one with warden bubble

Tbh i thaught soloing barks was pretty quick

 

[old.Phlobin]

To all:
thnx for the replies.

To Xero:
Of course we are great soloers until say lvl 45 (it gets hard with 40 though).

But...
To Eternal: ...
The brutal truth is, that if i want to solo i play diablo 2 or solitaire.

To Chameleon:
I forgot to post that phlo is lvl 44 atm and is played for quite some time now. Everything u say is true, but its a bit strange that i rarely, or rather never get any invitations even from pple i had (good) groups with earlier. And i can say, that i spent a good deal of time in Innis just to get some groups working.

About "usefulness":
The main argument is, that rangers cant heal, cant tank, cant bubble etc. In fact a whole lot of pple around are considered useless.

This sounds like company-thinking imo. I thought daoc was a game and not a job.

Every class (when rightly played) requires the same amount of concentration, keystrokes and cursormovements.

So there are certain design flaws in this game. But to develop a company-thinking and dont bother to say to pple who enjoyed playing this game, lvl a class and maybe develop a kind of rpg-charakter, that they are useless or leeching, when they in fact try to play with a group is disgusting.

Thats not a design flaw, but an attitude, which developed to the dominant one here it seems over the last few months.

But as it is an attitude it is changeable and it would be nice if it changes.

Last words i take from spankya:

please be a bit more considerate to other people, as we are all here to have fun and should all be trying to help each other to lvl and have fun for the realm and ourselves.

 

[Ebonn]

i compleatly aggree with the lack of ppl's willingness 2 accept shades/rangers into xp groups, i understand the reasons, but this game is about fun and helping each other, its not fun when u have to try and get a group for hours on end every day.. ( 12 hours i tried for once ) , i have a shade lvl 45, and have a /play time of over 44 days, i have spent most of that attempting to get a xp group, some ppl just think we will nerf there xp or suminn ( not every 1, there r a lot of ppl out there who will acept shades/rangers, mainly cos they have 1 as a alt and know how hard it is, but there r also a lot of ppl who wont, they would rather wait another hour for a tank/mage etc... to turn up )
i even posted a thread about me asking for groups a while ago.. and guess wot... no help.. how surprising.

well i gotta go back to innis to try and get a group..

 

[Lessurl]

To phlobin, best xp i ever had at pooks was when u were in charge of the chain pullin, racin off to get the next one as the first was approaching death (as far as i can see a lot of pullers don't seem to understand how to do this). The entire field was wiped in minutes and <gasp> my xp bar had moved. Thus i agree with u that it's not just the class but the player playing the char that determines how useful they are to the grp.

 

[Gorguss]

The main argument is, that rangers cant heal, cant tank, cant bubble etc. In fact a whole lot of pple around are considered useless.

This sounds like company-thinking imo. I thought daoc was a game and not a job.

Every class (when rightly played) requires the same amount of concentration, keystrokes and cursormovements.

No matter what you do with your keyboard, even if you step up and jump on it will a Ranger for example compare to a Warden. When you need a warden, you wait for a warden and not a ranger, even if there is a ranger there. It's not about the exp beeing nerfed or that one is only occupied by the thought of getting more of it, it's also that people don't think it's fun to die. Now I'm not saying Rangers get groups killed but if they step in for a druid or warden then yes, either you have to move to a dull spot and hunt reds with a full group or you risk death.

This is not company-attitude, this is avoiding frustration. Nothing personal against you nor Rangers at all, I don't want to draw aggro on me here. I'm just stating my opinion. As Eternal said(wise guy btw) Rangers are not exactly the best grouping material.

And again I say that I will not hesitate to take in NS og Rangers into our group if we HAVE PLACE FOR THEM. If we have the vital stuff, you are welcome, if we don't well then please understand that we are not rejecting you becouse you are nerfed or unwanted and the like, it's becouse we need another class to survive. If you absolutely don't wanna play solo at all in this game, plez plez pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze make a bard or something. To counter your reply to Eternal I say: If you wanna be a team player, go play a bard or something.

Gorguss out--

/note sorry if I insulted anyone and if so, it's not my intention.

 

[Kobold]

But...
To Eternal: ...
The brutal truth is, that if i want to solo i play diablo 2 or solitaire.

So why the hell are you playing a solo char and complain about it here then? Then I suggest reroll as tank or healer, or cancle you're DAoC account and go play solitare or diablo 2

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by Alrindel
Good group players are good group players and bad group players are bad group players, and some of them are rangers and some of them are champions.

...... is just about the best point made in the entire thread and one people frequently forget. Ive played alongside many rogue class players who you would want in your group ahead of any other class, because they know how to play in a group. Because a player is rogue does not mean he/she cant be the best asset a group has ..... equally, because a player is a hero/champ does not mean you want them in your group.

 

[gronk]

have to agree with most posts in this thread,since i'm lvl41 now and i'm starting to think that waiting in innis for 3-5hours for a group is just crap.u guys need us rangers/shades as much as every over class in RvR,can't remember how often i saved a lonely caster (maybe even u tzeen) cause someone thought they could get quick RPs of him...

and we are pretty usefull in groups if u let us do our job...

u just need us in RvR to get those nasty rouges of the other realms, think about it! only having 1or2 shades/rangers in emain...u all would be waisted...so HELP us poor stealthers...u might get a few of our RPs too

 

[Ziva]

Well i must say i have never noticed this problem and i have been playing for a while now.

My char is an lvl 35 entchantress and nowdays when i solo i usually get more xp then when i'm in a group with people my own level. I can do some red mobs with ease when i use my pet and i even did a purp one once but i guess it was a bug or something because this should be impossible according to the manuals.

I don't know if NS or Rangers also can do high leveled mobs solo but if this is the case then maybe they rather play solo then in group. I personally don't see these classes passing by very often and therefore i am not very familiar with them but when i'm in a group and i have a free spot i would let them in offcourse. Why not?

I remember playing in a group with a ranger and we were killing olipheists. The ranger pulled over and over again and we leveled like mad.

When i look at a group i think a good mix of all classes is the best to have but like i said... i don't see many rangers/NS come by very often so maybe they are at different places then me?

 

[Bedroc the Hero]

I love grouping with rangers. Ive been in some fab groups with even 3 rangers and its great fun. They never run out of mana! They deal a LOT of damage fast. They also work very nice with baffing mobs as long as you have a bard/druid to mezz/root adds. You can get exp very fast like this and have great fun.

AoE nukers have some of the same stigma as rangers. Come on, everything isnt PBAE! Sure they do a lot of damage but 2 or 3 regular nukers with AoE work almost as well. And thats presuming that everyone is a good teamplayer.

Id take a good teamplayer of any class any day over the UBER PBAE that dont know how to cooperate or have a nice time while exping.

How boring it would be if all groups looked the same..

BTW, Phlobin is a great player ( among many other rangers, ns, AoE nukers etc ). To miss out on their great company would be a shame!

 

[gronk]

ehm Ziva, killing a red con as a ranger/nightshade is as impossible as soloing the glacier giant (u could kill a red con as a ranger, if u count about 5-10mins per red con, with firering 2 arrows in the mob,then run off,get end back, fire the next 2 arrows,run off again ...)

a few orange cons ,like deamhan aeirs,are possible,depends on the mob type,but some yellow cons are even too hard.

and i know from a few nightshades that at the lower lvls, that they nearly fail at blue cons solo.that seems to change as soon as they get to 30+ i think

 

[Marwolaeth]

Hmm, sorry ziva but it's abit rarer for rangers to kill an orange (unless it's a tree) let alone a red or purp (or is it just me). We do get a tiny bit better exp per kill when soloing than in most groups but this is more than offset by the fun you have, the speed with which time goes by and having alot less downtime and so more kills/exp per hour.

Damage dealt by rangers may not be quite as high as some of the mage classes are capable of but I will say one thing for us, in a group trying to kill purple mobs I tend to hit alot more often than my (admittedly poor and lowly) mage does due to the amount the mob resists my spells.

I've also tended to notice that we not only hit for slightly (some cases significantly more) damage than a tank but more consistantly too. In no way am I advocating the replacement of tanks with rangers since lets face it up close and personal I can't even solo a blue con mob...I'm just trying to point out that when needed a ranger can sometimes be a great asset in turning the tide of a battle.

An example...A group I had the pleasure of being in recently went to try out grovewoods. Now maybe I got the wrong impression from what was really happening but effectivley it went along the lines of the tanks going *swish* *swish* *swish* *chop* *swish*, the pbaoe'er going *blast* *resist* *resist* *resist* *blast* and myself going *thunk* *thunk* *miss* *thunk* .......In that case I wasn't even the highest lvl in the group yet I firmly believe my poor little ranger did most of the damage to the nasty trees. Of course we al died in the end but that was hardly my fault

Example 2: In CM vs one of those flying imp things, no mage this time I think but quite alot of tanks and a healer. Yet again the only real consistant damage came from arrows since the little pest was evading an unbelievable amount of blows from the tanks (....not sure but can you evade arrows?, I know you can block them but.....). Granted in this instance we probably wouldn't of died when the healer ran out of mana since there was a nice lvl 50 looking after us (not part of group) if things got too nasty, but the point is we were able to kill him without needing help undoubtedly in my mind due to rangers being able to deal such good consistent damage.


Admittedly in both examples someone coud point out maybe an extra healer or another mage would of fulfilled the slot I took up better, but I'm just trying to oint out that in no way are we just useful to go pull somthing then wave our pointys around whilst the other classes do all the real work.

Rangers pulling? Upto and possibly including red mobs I will pull but purple you can forget it. Sorry but the strain on the healers until the tanks can finally hit enough times with a taunt to get it off me is too much in my opinion, and as for the "Let marionne pull with crit shot"?.....Pah! You seen the amount of times a crit shot can actually /hit/ a purple mob let alone the fact the slight bonus damage a crit shot does against a purple does not make the kill any quicker. I'll pull in a push but it always goes bad in my experience (especially for me, but I'm just a ranger so who cares eh?)

........And I bet I've just come across as being conceited and so will never get a group now anyway

 

[Avi N'dor]

My experience is the same as with the 2 previous posters.

Everybody always thinks rangers are the best solo class while it is not true. I can't ever solo a red (in acceptable time and trouble scale). Oranges are so so, depends on the mob type greatly. Trees maybe.

However, my druid friend boasts being able to solo 3 yellow cons simultaneously and the enchanger above soloes reds AND they both are 100x more useful & wanted in groups than rangers....

BAck to the drawing board Mythic...

 

[Alrindel]

....not sure but can you evade arrows?

Yes, they can. Deamhan aeirs do this quite a bit, and can even evade a critical shot.

 

[Danya]

....not sure but can you evade arrows?

Happens in RvR too - I have evaded critshots before.