Group policy. WE have same ?

[eneq]

Well been playing many diff chars in many diff groups i wanted to ventilate some questions and some rules that maybe need some discussion.

1. The sthealter. (sp? )
Well some guys i know wont RvR with NS in group. I asked them why ? And they said the NS ALWAYS stays alive when rest of group dies and never fight with group. This means in a group of 8 only 7 is actually aiding group.

Well i been grouped with many shades and yes they seem to off on there own. But i also played with many NS that stays in group and Never off stealthing somewhere. When we spot a invaders they usually hides and go for mages and healers.

The NS thats go off stealthing out of group isnt really a NS thing its a bad teamplayer thats all.
So team up with NS and if they go off stealthing tell them they shouldnt and if they keep doing it disband them.

A NS can scout IF group is part of a zerg.

Well thats my opinions of the NS.

2. Follow GL/group
Well im the sort of a guy that follows the appointed GL to the death. No questions asked. HE is the GL and should b obeyd directly. I cant count the times when i followed GL to ALB/Mid TK adn suddenly noticed we r 5-6 memebrs left in group.
And after we died when i ask "where r all ?"
They say "i never go TK" "going TK SUX"
WTF ??
I agree going TK isnt a good idea, BUT tell that to GL AFTER.
Dont just abandon the group. IF GL dont listen, disband group AFTER.

3. Who should b GL ?
Well this is up for discussion. I think the BARD is best option really.
Because when he inside mezz distance he can stop and start mezzing. And all Mages that stuck on him wont have to use keyboard to unstick adn all that r not that fast will stop when bard does.
The Tanks is a good choice also but then the mezz wont b as fast, and all mages/healers must unstick.
When 2-3 PBAOE mages stuck on bard they can b a pretty good defence for healers/bards.
If a tank goes for bard/healers/mages they know thagt mages go PBAOE and kill all in secs..

I never understood why some mages r appointed GL.

4. Grouping.
Well im in a small guild(WE r only 2 active players atm)
and r asking around to bigger guilds for criterias to join.
Some guilds say no thx we not inviting atm. And thats cool. BUT when i play some chars of my acc. (ex BARD) i got a invite to join a group. GUESS what ?? It was full of members of 1 guild that wasnt accepting any new members....
So from now when i invited to group of that guild i will leave if its only that guild in it. I think thats only fair ? What u think ?

AND if u have a group of 7 from 1 guild and needs a Bard/Druid/etc and invites a specific char u need, I think its rude to group for 30 mins until a guildmember of that class to come online and then ditch the nonguilded. Same thing here. I wont group with them again.

Well thast just a few of my "rules" what rules u got and if u disagree with mine plz discuss in a friendly manner ;p

 

[SilverHood]

AND if u have a group of 7 from 1 guild and needs a Bard/Druid/etc and invites a specific char u need, I think its rude to group for 30 mins until a guildmember of that class to come online and then ditch the nonguilded. Same thing here. I wont group with them again.

That is rude, unless they said that when you first joined

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by eneq
1. The sthealter. (sp? )
Well some guys i know wont RvR with NS in group. I asked them why ? And they said the NS ALWAYS stays alive when rest of group dies and never fight with group. This means in a group of 8 only 7 is actually aiding group.

nowadays a shade is damn near essential. every group should have see hidden. and NS have always been the best scouts also.

2. Follow GL/group
Well im the sort of a guy that follows the appointed GL to the death. No questions asked. HE is the GL and should b obeyd directly. I cant count the times when i followed GL to ALB/Mid TK adn suddenly noticed we r 5-6 memebrs left in group.

yep agreed here. generally doesnt matter who leads, so long as its clear who is leading. the leader should not be the bard, so that the bard cant be targeted in the mass of bodies stuck to leader. leader should be someone who can take a bashing, and the druid knows he will take the first bashing, easier to heal then. DEFINITELY shouldn't be mage (unless the mage wants to die at the start of each battle and get no RPs ).

 

[Salazar]

Novamir... it looks like we are both noobs

Was trying to tell one mage that he shouldnt lead... famous one btw... and i was told im a noob if i dont understand why he should lead... greetings to that dude btw.

 

[Novamir]

well maybe it can work

doesnt make sense to me tho, let the person who can take hits lead since its basically what they are good at.

 

[Spudgie]

Let the person who knows where hes bloody going lead

Elds are good because they are usually expendable from the group with no utility and fading damage

But you can try nearsighting the sorcs + healers as soon as they appear, QC+Nearsight will always beat a QC+Mezz and castable mezzes + stuns, even if it does put your eld in a vulnerable position.

 

[Noche]

Casters drop first, always and period

 

[kameh]

hmm

I always stay close to any casters in the group, if we've none then I scout and relay information.

There's no better feeling than destealthing a shadowblade just before he goes to pull of a PA on your caster friends, suddenly it's open season on him and he knows it

Nightshades are usually spec'd very similarly but played in completely different ways.

 

[thebinarysurfer]

Tbh though i get worried if a nightshade stays close to the group - they're no match for any other class in the game unless they are in melee. I prefer the ones who run ahead to give us info on what kind of shit-storm we're about to hit in emain.

Just my tuppeny's worth..

Oh and rangers will be as good as nightshades for scouting (if not better - speedbuff remember) once camoflage comes in. Roll on 1.52.....

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by eneq

2. Follow GL/group
Well im the sort of a guy that follows the appointed GL to the death. No questions asked. HE is the GL and should b obeyd directly. I cant count the times when i followed GL to ALB/Mid TK adn suddenly noticed we r 5-6 memebrs left in group.
And after we died when i ask "where r all ?"
They say "i never go TK" "going TK SUX"
WTF ??
I agree going TK isnt a good idea, BUT tell that to GL AFTER.
Dont just abandon the group. IF GL dont listen, disband group AFTER.

Normally I would stick straight away, keeps everyone together.
Sometimes tho it's not always possible, if you see invaders still in an area and a tell doesn't get you anywhere and hibs are being attacked what do you do?

I think it's as equally important for leaders to have a quick look to check everyone is there too, sometimes it can't be helped of course.

I think it's best to utilise the unwritten rule of not going to the TK, no good blaming dying on the people who didn't/couldn't follow you and not the 4fgs of albs that just ported in, I think we all know that going there is often a very bad idea

95% of the time I don't have a problem with how things work, what I have had a problem with are snide comments from those who claim to know better, happened to me that there were 2 alb stealthers at the amg and a skald, I had just got done killing my own invader when the zerg ran off, not looking back to chase some albs back to the pk, I was about to follow suit when I noticed an inf destealth and attack a NS (I was out of speed at this point) so it was a toss up, be a total bastard and leave him on his own or follow the zerg? (death spam had popped up by this point, amazing how fast speed 5 can deliver ye unto death ).

So I helped him out, saw another alb just by the gate, ran to intercept him then saw a mid as well, there was almost half a grp of hibs there who seemed to be afk or something, cos only a few of em were fighting it seemed.

So that was it in a nutshell, then I get snide remarks when I defend my actions, "oh chasing the first alb you see?" was a choice one, how about I actually made the best of a bad situation and helped those nearest me rather than the ones who were beyond my help?

I've played since commercial release and won't go into all the chars I have, I still consider myself a noob at rvr sometimes, plus everyone has off days, seen some top players have bad moments. Still, wasn't necessary to launch into a tirade against one individual when there was half a grp who hadn't gone anywhere, at least I was on the move at the time

I'll still always ask people to stick to GL (often me in some situations) since it's in everyones interest, but I will always refrain from making people out to be foolish or n00bs simply because they weren't where I expected them to be and wasn't prepared to listen to what they had to say on why they weren't there...oh and it is a game after all

 

[jayce@da]

BUT when i play some chars of my acc. (ex BARD) i got a invite to join a group. GUESS what ?? It was full of members of 1 guild that wasnt accepting any new members....
So from now when i invited to group of that guild i will leave if its only that guild in it. I think thats only fair ? What u think ?

Whats wrong here, just because a guild is not recruiting does not mean they cant group with people outside their guild, surely ?
(or am I missing the point?)

 

[spankya]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT when i play some chars of my acc. (ex BARD) i got a invite to join a group. GUESS what ?? It was full of members of 1 guild that wasnt accepting any new members....
So from now when i invited to group of that guild i will leave if its only that guild in it. I think thats only fair ? What u think ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont see any prob here....

As for the other things u said....

NS's r very handy to have in groups due to see hidden, so always worth having 1 in the group I think

Follow group leader... yep this is a big must otherwise people will end up oos and/or dying somewhere... and its also a pain if the group needs to move out but 1 person isnt with the group.

GL... bard or tank I think..

 

[Avi N'dor]

Re: hmm

Kami Butterfingers
Level 41 Nightshade

Hrodrek
Level 40 Bard

Click to see my Cruachan Gorge Mob Map

Just wanted to say that your Gorge map is excellent

 

[Kobold]

GL = tank

Prolly reason why the group of 7 guildies asked a non guild bard to join was that they didn't have any bard atm, and a group of 7 peeps in emain (or wherever) is totaly useless (almost) without that lute playing mez machine

 

[eneq]

Re: Re: Group policy. WE have same ?

Originally posted by jayce@da



Whats wrong here, just because a guild is not recruiting does not mean they cant group with people outside their guild, surely ?
(or am I missing the point?)

Yes i have np with that.
But u missed my point (or maybe i missed making it a point)

I asked about criteria to join becasue i maybe wanted to join. And they said no we dont need any peeps atm.

And THEN the same guild wanted my bard to group with em.
Thats dont make sense really. They dont need any more members but wants outsider to make a good group ?

So thats why i wont group with that guildgroups. I still group with guildmembers of that guild but not with guildgroups.

 

[Tyka]

Why would you want a tank to lead, give me 1 reason except that they can take alot of bashing? Whoever says that a tank should lead a fg through emain dont know jack shit.

Here is how i see it if a tank leads: tank see some enemies, rushes straigh into them with everyone stick to him, its totaly chaos becaues the bard does not get enough time to unstick and do a proper aoe mez and the nukers are just fleeing like chickens just to get away from the tanks. Thats a good one, instead of making the tanks GET to you, you get to them so they can nicely finish you.

Here is the benefits if a mage/bard leads: Bard see some enemies, he lulls so they loose speed, SAFELY aoe mez from range, everyone have time to pick their targets and nukers 2 hit their favourite mages/stealthers (pfff ;P) before they even get time to react.

If you dont believe me get back when u have played both a tank/nuker to higher levels and some experience in rvr, because whoever says tanks should lead are clueless. Just ask anyone in my regular rvr groups and see if they would rather have Miss or me lead rather than a uber tank with 8k hps.

Btw dont come with something like, "in my groups the tank stop and tells everyone ENEMY AHEAD PLZ MEZ BEFORE I RUSH YOU INTO THEM WITH EVERYONE STICK ON ME"

Btw those are the guys that yell "FFS MEZ WHY DIDNT YOU MEZ OMG U HAD BEST CHANCE EVER"

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by Noche
Casters drop first, always and period

What this? have you ever played a caster in rvr? If you are in a GOOD group, tanks die first. But of course if you are a suicide bomber like 90% of the mana mages in hib you die first.

 

[<Harle>]

Re: Re: Re: Group policy. WE have same ?

Originally posted by eneq


Yes i have np with that.
But u missed my point (or maybe i missed making it a point)

I asked about criteria to join becasue i maybe wanted to join. And they said no we dont need any peeps atm.

And THEN the same guild wanted my bard to group with em.
Thats dont make sense really. They dont need any more members but wants outsider to make a good group ?

So thats why i wont group with that guildgroups. I still group with guildmembers of that guild but not with guildgroups.

Ok, I still don't get it really
So there's a guild that is not accepting new members atm ( porbably decided by the Guildmaster).
Then some people from this guild ( 7 in this case) make up a nice group to join some RvR. They do this because they enjoy playing and chatting with each other ( reason why they are in the same guild anyway )- but they are lacking a RvR-essential class: a bard.
Since obviously no bards from that guild are online or those who are online are busy ( crafting, helping others etc) they ask some other bard to join them, since you really can't RvR without a bard ( well, you can, but not for long).
Still don't get what is wrong with that whole situation

 

[old.Thalion]

Sorry Tyka, i've NEVER seen a tank die before me in rvr (in 1vs1 group fighting). And i'm no suiciding mana-chanter.

 

[Tyka]

i'm not saying that they always die before me, just how it should be, and if that happens you know that u are in a good group.

 

[Kobold]

Hmmm I still would say it's better if a tank lead, as I played both bard and hero and leaded many times. A hero can take shit loadsa damage, have moose and usually ip, and theire main job is to take damage. The bards job is CC. Try to mez as many as possible, give group end and speed and stay ALIVE! Enemies allways look for for the dude with a lute and then I would say it'sreally stupid to let the bard run in front as enemies have insta mez/stun to fuck up the bards mez.....bla bla bla...haven't played in a while so not into how things work atm, but I wouldn't placed the music man or the old dude with pointy hat in front instead of big nasty tank

Ofcourse regular groups that teams everyday together and have the same group, things may work a bit different as all know their position and what to do when. It's normal groups I'm talking about here.

 

[eneq]

" but they are lacking a RvR-essential class: a bard."
"since you really can't RvR without a bard "

"we dont need anymore members"

if u put then 3 qoutes togheter doesnt it strikes you as strange ?

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by Tyka


What this? have you ever played a caster in rvr? If you are in a GOOD group, tanks die first. But of course if you are a suicide bomber like 90% of the mana mages in hib you die first.

Actually if you are in a good group, doing skirmishes then 1 person, maybe 2 in your grp dies, tops. (assuming you take on a similar sized grp but I've been in a grp that took 1 and a half grps followed by another some 30 secs later with not as single death on our side)

I'm all for whoever knows what they are doing driving, as well as the person with very low latency and a good gfx card, number of times bard/mage/tank/stealther has run into invaders because their comp couldn't draw them in fast enough is hilarious

A good driver (regardless of class) will pay attention to whose in his grp, he will stop before mez range, giving casters and bard time to prepare whilst tanks spread out a bit to avoid being useless in the even of being mezzed.

So at the end of the day I put my faith in whoever leads, regardless of class, I've been amazed and in stitches in rvr and if it doesn't work releasing and trying again is no big deal, just get it right next time

 

[eneq]

"What this? have you ever played a caster in rvr? If you are in a GOOD group, tanks die first"

Well if u meet sucky invaders sure.
If u meet a good RvR group tanks die last. Or else the enemy sux.
They have same rule as we have. Kill mages/healers/CC first.
If a tank dies first then it means the opposition has wrong targets. Or all in group is mezzed.

With the moose and ip the tanks have so much hp its insane.

Casters main purpose in a group is defence first. Make sure all that r after mages/healers/CC is stunned and then killed. Then u can assist tanks in killing the others.

With so many PBAOE nowdays the best defence is to have them huddled toghter and when healer/CC is attacked he runs to PBAOE (or better been there from start) they stun and PBAOE the crap out of attackers.

 

[eneq]

Some good points on who should b GL

Of course its better to have a mage that know whats happening then a tank/bard thats clueless.

Tyka has a good point that bard should b GL due to the 2300 range Instant AoE lull.

BTW the idea that all should stuck on GL isnt a rule.
Think its better if mages stick on healer, And the healer stick GL
Both healer and mages should stand still in RvR to casts spell so they dont have to unstick,And as i said earlier the mages first thing is defence.

 

[Tyka]

I'm sure everyone have their opinion on how a good rvr group should be setup/played/lead by whom etc. But as i said, having a tank leading, he will 90% of the time notice the enemy first and it will take some time for the others to react, because there is not much a tank can do when he notices them except for saying INC W/E/S/N or whatever. On the other hand a bard/eld can nuke/mez while everyone getting their positions.

 

[lofff]

kinda agree most of said by eneq first post.

bout GL thing should add sth...

1- Casters GL? no, its real stoopid thing, only good i saw in sum alb groups (just a couple) is how they get a tank or cleric to lead with the sorcs (mezzers stuck and a couple of tanks) then they all stop and the sorc starts to cast its a damn pain to target and interrupt that sorc there. Casters as GL will b first target which mean theyll die or run the whole fight not been able to cast shit.

2- Bards GL? ofc, thats an option since a good bard might get to land an AEmezz before getting interrupted or jumped, also have long range lullinstas to speedoff enemies and interrupt casters. (and takes more dmg than casters!) Also, stuck bards lose attention on the game taking too long to mezz.

3- drood GL? well, they can take toons a hits and aeroot... not bad option also.

4- tanks GL? imho its only champs really good for leading p) due to the taking hits thing and the long range instas (2x1500, 3x1000) which gives em sum versatility on that job. Other tanks do fine also at taking hits but really cant do anything but rush which sumtimes is a suicide.

 

[Lessurl]

Best grps i've been in have had a good bard leading. They speed into mez range stop to start casting ae mez and ae lull at same time, they may have the bard targetted but first attack is interupted then they are mezzed. Everyone breaks off and the gankage begins

 

[Ensceptifica]

As long as everybody sticking to the GL pays attention, there shouldn't be a problem, regardless of who leads. In practise though, people usually stick to the bard and often chat away and pay little attention until they're under attack. That usually means the death of the bard. Only a few guild/veteran RvR groups really continuously pay attention. If you have a lazy group, I'd say get a tank to lead, so the bard is safe in the group behind and doesn't get the first damage.

 

[Tyka]

Originally posted by lofff
1- Casters GL? no, its real stoopid thing, only good i saw in sum alb groups (just a couple) is how they get a tank or cleric to lead with the sorcs (mezzers stuck and a couple of tanks) then they all stop and the sorc starts to cast its a damn pain to target and interrupt that sorc there. Casters as GL will b first target which mean theyll die or run the whole fight not been able to cast shit.

Ok lofff u need to read my post again mate

i cant bother explaining it for you again, but in short, casters can do something from range, like taking out important key member of the enemies first, wich a tank cant do as good, because if u are going to, u have everyone stick on you in middle of the enemies. ok?