Griefing on EU servers.

[boni_ofdavoid]

As a GM, im often asked to resolve matters about 'camp sights'. Right now there is a whine thread in the excal hib secion about just this. Perhaps someone in authority can give me an answer to this:-

A). Is it within the rules to pull at a 'camp sight' where someone is already pulling.

B). Is it within the rules to nuke the hell out mobs that others are pulling (perhaps I want to annoy them or steal their exp).

It would appear that in the US version of DAOC the answers are :-

A). Yes, its ok to pull mobs as long as no one else has pulled them. No one 'owns' a camp sight.

B). No, interfearing with others 'pulls' is not on and such people should be reported for repeatedly doing this.

It would appear that in the EU version anything goes, there are
no guidelines for these actions. Is this so?

/edit
and please before you tell me that its in the CoC that you cant nuke others mobs, please go have a look for it. Its in the US CoC yes, but not the EU...

 

[Dook_Pug]

A camp cannot be claimed.

Mobs cannot be claimed.

It is only greifing when someone attacks a mob you have already pulled.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
A camp cannot be claimed.

Mobs cannot be claimed.

It is only greifing when someone attacks a mob you have already pulled.

Now this is what I thought, and is clearly the rules for the US servers, but I can find no mention of it on daoc-europe.com.

 

[Dook_Pug]

I think it has some mention of it on one of the Rightnow! FAQs but don't hold me to that.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
I think it has some mention of it on one of the Rightnow! FAQs but don't hold me to that.

So did I, but its not there, only the US sight has such stuff, so it doesnt apply here... :/

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

It should be in the CoC but I have never really looked for it. I think when you log on for the first time and you have to 'accept' those two different legal statements there is mention of it there.

Would be nice if common decency was used occasionally by some people but I guess that would be too much to hope for.

 

[Aurilius]

It is in CoC.

Personally if i get to a camp / pullspot and someone is there before me - i move on and find another exp spot.

 

[Graknak]

The point is not pulling mobs from the same camp, it's more like the ppl pre-claiming a camp. In some situations though like large scale raids this has to be done, but something like AC if a guy is camping the same spot 24/7 to PL alts etc. it can become annoying for ppl who need to lvl on their own to just sit there waiting for a spot to open.

It's like having to wait in line at yer local shop, you could push in front of the line, no rules about you not being allowed to, but no-one will really appreaciate you doing so. However would you ask you might be able to get in front afterall if you can give a valid reason ofc.

But indeed CoC only says you can't kill/attack a mob that has already been pulled by another player, altough i'm not 100% sure if this goes for RvR too, since if someone would steal a mob from you in DF it would be the same, or wouldn't the rules go cross-realm? ^^

 

[kirennia]

as a GM, if i heard of anyone in LoD pushing in on camp spots, i'd probably be a bit pissed off and talk to them about it, not through what is said in the CoC but instead being in common deceny rules

 

[Driwen]

its rather simple for example:

campspot is just enough for one person. Now if two people start pulling from it, both will get half what they could get from it (asuming both are just as good at pulling/dealing with downtime) . Now if one would go to a less suitable spot, his other realmmate will get full advantage of the spot and he will most likely still have gained from moving on as the other spot is probably only slightly less worse.
Now its sort of decided in daoc that one who was there first is the one who has the best "claim" on the spot. So the new comer then leaves to the slightly less good spot and both get decent xp/loot.

Off course this example is only true if you arent really interested in the loot you get and that there are enough spots that are almost similar for exping. It does however demand of people to know enough alternatives, which isnt something that is that common.
But in the best interest of both people in the example it would be best if one would leave the spot and go to another one as both will profit from it.

 

[Xandax]

Found this in the RoC that is located in my classic DAoC folder:

1. You may NOT kill steal from members of your own realm. Kill stealing is defined as the repetitive killing of monsters who are already in combat with or pursuit of another player from your realm, without the other person's express permission.
2. You may NOT leech experience from members of your realm. XP Leeching is defined as uninvited, repetitive initiation of combat against monsters that are already in combat with another player from your realm -OR- univited, repetative healing of a realm-mate in combat with a monster. This is usually with the express intent of gaining experience with little or no risk to yourself.

Dunno why it isn't in the SI RoC.

 

[old.Kerosene]

I generally find a good bunch of detaunts deals with any mob leechers.

 

[Demolay]

Does that apply to dungeon areas also - gets more tricky when you bring that into play i.e. the "Galla discusion"

Most people have been pretty sensible and friendly in my experience, but I'm sure we all have at least one story to tell ...

 

[Feac_]

Originally posted by old.Kerosene
I generally find a good bunch of detaunts deals with any mob leechers.

this is my favourite too works better than rightnow too even better if you are a rezzer

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Originally posted by boni_ofdavoid
A). Is it within the rules to pull at a 'camp sight' where someone is already pulling.

B). Is it within the rules to nuke the hell out mobs that others are pulling (perhaps I want to annoy them or steal their exp).

It would appear that in the US version of DAOC the answers are :-

A). Yes, its ok to pull mobs as long as no one else has pulled them. No one 'owns' a camp sight.

B). No, interfearing with others 'pulls' is not on and such people should be reported for repeatedly doing this.

IMO, a Mob does not become anyones "property" until it has been pulled. Camp spots should not exist, its a flaw in the game that allows people to sit in a good exp or loot spot all day long PLing alts and / or making cash and denying others of the right to be there.

Of late I too have seen a few examples of campers getting the hump every time someone encroaches "their" spot. One favorite is the Princess room in DF, where a guildie was recently subjected to a barrage of abuse from someone who claimed they owned the whole room of about 20 mobs. While my guildie pulled a single mob, they threatened him with leeching any of his future pulls. The abuse was totally unnecessary, in fact the first words from the group were "F*ck off out of this room!!" and not "would you mind leaving pls m8?". If the Princess room had 2 entrances, 2 places you could camp, there would be no arguement.

As for leeching, well that too is out of order, no one should do it, a mob by rights belongs to you once you have its attention. The bad part here is, is it really worth reporting someone for leeching 1 mob, even 2 or 3 is really not worth it in the grand scale of things, and what punishment could GOA give for a 0.1 of a bub? Hardly worth doing anything about until you get someone who does it constantly, despite being asked not too.

Really as a GM you can only judge each case by its own merit, and really only if evidence of leeching / poaching can be produced. If its just a case of "thats my camp!" then Id pretty much say tough, its a big realm.

 

[Flimgoblin]

and what punishment could GOA give for a 0.1 of a bub?

If people are being antisocial freaks and leeching they can warn, suspend or ban them - they don't have to leech for 3 levels

 

[old.job]

LOL I got some major abuse once for healing the fook out of a player in combat at the Parth farm, it was early days and it turned out he wasnt in our grp

 

[The Real Redi]

common decency should answer both of these.

If you have already pulled a mob and then its attacked by another - thats kill stealing, it's lame and most people have the common sense to NOT do it = griefing.

However, camping has a few things to consider. If i go into Barrows or AC, there will nearly ALWAYS be a theurg or necro or something blasting the crap out of everything in some of the best camp spots. PLing is fucking lame - nearly as lame as Buffbots frankly, and ANYONE who thinks they can justify them camping a spot and deprive a well organised XPing group of some great hunting and drops etc. are just being wankers, imo.

yeah, PL your alts (seeing as your too unsociable/lazy to find a decent group), but how about a bit of common sense and a little give and take, eh? As an officer of the Templars, more than once has it come up that a younger member has contacted me in relation to a PLing arsehole abusing them for trying to hunt in their camp spot, especially in Barrows.

It's sad and a mite pathetic if you ask me, but then again, i'll prolly get flamed to bits now for being one of the few people who play this game to enjoy it, not to "be teh best!!!!1!!" as it were...

 

[osy]

I once spent a whole hour at lair, taunting mobs for another group. It was back in the days when names weren't coloured.

I simply had no idea that that wasn't my group.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Generally the problems that occur while hunting are down to one single thing: lack of consideration for fellow players. Its pretty much at the root of all the real problems that occur.

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Especially when it gets laggy if several people are in an area (like DF for example) its quite easy to acidently pull or damage a beastie that another group or person was intending to hack away at. Tempers get grayed, toys get thrown out of prams etc. I think everyone at some time or another has accidently attacked the wrong mob or healed the wrong person.

People taking a lvl50 Bot into a low level area and ruining it for everyone else is very annoying, and increasing in frequency I've found, but there's not really a whole lot you can do about it. Example: toon with 50 bot in tow cleaning out the willows near Gna repeatedly with ae disease pulls while I was solo trying to hunt the area. Possibly not against CoC but frustrating as hell and a fair indication of the lack of consideration many bot users actually show their fellow players.

I've been griefed a few times I guess (but from any individual, only ever once MUHAHAHAHA(TM)). I have had more incidents with guildmates getting griefed that I've had to deal with than actual incidents myself. Occasionally a guildmate gets his knuckles slapped too - I don't care if its someone else's fault, if a guildy lets rip at someone they are in my opinion bringing the guild into disrepute and I'll quite happily stomp on that hard and with some of the more <cough> colourful players we've had in Fedaykin over time this has happened occasionally.

The main thing to do all the time is log everything, and get screenies where appropriate. An important thing to remember is that if the log or screenie doesn't show *all* the information, from right when the problem started, in my opinion it is invalid, as people sometimes accidently forget to include the preamble... especially if they started it

 

[The Real Redi]

Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
The main thing to do all the time is log everything, and get screenies where appropriate. An important thing to remember is that if the log or screenie doesn't show *all* the information, from right when the problem started, in my opinion it is invalid, as people sometimes accidently forget to include the preamble... especially if they started it

Totally agree

If you're at a spot hunting with a group, and a 50th turns up with a 20th in tow, to PL it, don't open with the line, "WTF!!!1!! u FucKin N00b!! WTF IS WroNG Wif U? We R t3h HunTah'z, so FAOD!!!", as there maybe some misunderstanding.

Try "scuse me mate, got a group at this spot, and you're not exactly gaining anything here, are you? " or "sorry mate, camped" and you're likely to get a breif "soz" and they'll move on.

but screenies and logs are the key :great: