News Greece now want a second bailout?

[cHodAX]

What the fuck? 100 billion euros wasn't enough so know we need another 110 billion, kkthxbye!

Seriously?

Greece needs another

I am not sure what is worse, letting them fail and see it roll all over Europe or pump in more cash and wait for them to come back for a third handout.

 

[Helme]

The best thing for the Greeks(the people) would be to leave the eurozone so they can devalue their own new currency and stabilize.

That isn't going to happen though, because it'd set a precedent and Portugal, Spain and probably Italy would be quick to follow. What we're instead going to do is bail these incompetent governments out, and it is the governments here - not the people all so that mostly German bankers won't have to face a loss. Meanwhile, the Greek people will see most of their country sold off to foreign investors to pay for the loans - this won't solve anything, all it will do is delay the default a bit longer and pretty much everyone knows this. But solving Greece financial problems was never on the agenda here, what it's all about is looting the country for the little remaining wealth it has left.

It's fucking disgusting really, even more so when you read the media harping on about how all the Greek's are lazy despite being one of the countries working the most hours on average in Europe. It's a shitty, corrupt, incompetent government and we're going to force the people to pay for their mistakes again. All the while these fucking scumbags will never see a single day in a courtroom, and will live out their lives rich men.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Let them crash.
Seriously. Let the country go bankrupt. If the first handout wasn't enough and they're asking for a second... fuck 'em. No point throwing good money after bad.

It's what I said about the banks that were "too big to allow to fail".
If a bank trades beyond it's reserves, it deserves everything it gets when it comes time to balance the books.

 

[DocWolfe]

I think if a country goes bankrupt then they should be treated like a company going bust, all the countries assets should be liquidated and sold off to the highest bidder to pay of the countries debts.

I'm sure Turkey would love to get their hands on the rest of Cyprus. That'll teach them.

 

[Helme]

I think if a country goes bankrupt then they should be treated like a company going bust, all the countries assets should be liquidated and sold off to the highest bidder to pay of the countries debts.

I'm sure Turkey would love to get their hands on the rest of Cyprus. That'll teach them.

This is fucking retarded, because it's not Turkey that will buy these assets its Goldman Sachs, Deutschebank and so on - the very people fucking responsible for Greece's crash in the first place. The reasonable thing to do in this situation is allow them to default, or leave the eurozone and then let the banks trying to extort them eat the costs like they fucking should for doing what is clearly bad investments. Not to mention that any sellout of public assets is going to result in massive pain for the Greeks themselves, whose only real "fault" here is that they picked one corrupt piece of shit party instead of another to represent them.

Walking down the road of privatisation is NEVER good. Take a look at some of the examples in the US, Chicago parking meters comes to mind, prisons are another. It will cost the state MORE in the long run, and they'll be right back where they were - you cannot fix temporary holes in the budget by selling everything you own and then leasing it back.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Helping once is ok, that's just being neighbourly, but if they squander that chance, then you get yourself out of a jam. Rasberry i believe.

 

[DaGaffer]

Let them crash.
Seriously. Let the country go bankrupt. If the first handout wasn't enough and they're asking for a second... fuck 'em. No point throwing good money after bad.

It's what I said about the banks that were "too big to allow to fail".
If a bank trades beyond it's reserves, it deserves everything it gets when it comes time to balance the books.

When you yoke disprate economies into one currency, writing off one of the countries tends to fuck up the rest (this is about protecting France and Germany more than anything else).

I think if a country goes bankrupt then they should be treated like a company going bust, all the countries assets should be liquidated and sold off to the highest bidder to pay of the countries debts.

I'm sure Turkey would love to get their hands on the rest of Cyprus. That'll teach them.

That's what's going to happen. That's what is happening. And Cyprus is a sovereign state dumbass, its not part of Greece.

 

[Ctuchik]

You lot seems to have missed a point here.

It's not only Greece that will suffer if they go bankrupt. And then it won't matter if they are part of the euro zone or not.


What would happen if Greece went bankrupt? » The Coming Economic Depression 2010

The whole “cut them loose” argument regarding Greece’s gargantuan moutain of debt and its inability to pay the interest is ignorance. Looking back in recent history (2002 to present) when Argentina defaulted on its mountainous debt, 20 percent of the Italian pension system went with it and hundreds of thousands of Europeans lost a significant percentage of their lifetime savings. This was because European financial institutions and banks were heavily invested in Argentinian financial interests. Indeed, Argentina still refuses to pay, and likely never will.

If Greece defaults, 7 percent of the entire European Union financial institution liquidity disappears. Likewise, you cannot get paid in drachmas (Greece’s original currency) that are worth next to zero, and the Greek economy would likely still operate on Euros with or without EU approval. In fact, they’d be a constant 6% pain to the system through arbitrage.

Link to what happened to Argentina: Argentine economic crisis (1999

So you could imagine what would happen if Greece is "cut loose to die in peace"....

It's just not an option...

 

[bainteor]

The best thing for the Greeks(the people) would be to leave the eurozone so they can devalue their own new currency and stabilize.

That isn't going to happen though, because it'd set a precedent and Portugal, Spain and probably Italy would be quick to follow. What we're instead going to do is bail these incompetent governments out, and it is the governments here - not the people all so that mostly German bankers won't have to face a loss. Meanwhile, the Greek people will see most of their country sold off to foreign investors to pay for the loans - this won't solve anything, all it will do is delay the default a bit longer and pretty much everyone knows this. But solving Greece financial problems was never on the agenda here, what it's all about is looting the country for the little remaining wealth it has left.

It's fucking disgusting really, even more so when you read the media harping on about how all the Greek's are lazy despite being one of the countries working the most hours on average in Europe. It's a shitty, corrupt, incompetent government and we're going to force the people to pay for their mistakes again. All the while these fucking scumbags will never see a single day in a courtroom, and will live out their lives rich men.

Of course the government is in part to blame, but I believe you wrong in the bit I have highlighted. In fact, the people over here are indeed lazy, and expect everything to come to them. It is a complete farce when you get people opposing such austerity measures with no concern for the fact that Europe is bending over backwards to bail us out. Greece needs to suffer for its poor attitude with regards to work, and I hope that we can learn from it.

So I actually agree with Zenith. Let it burn, as they say, then people will realise the consequences of failing to adapt to the Eurozone and the modern work ethic.

 

[Helme]

Actually that lazy part is a fucking lie. Statistically, the laziest countries in Europe is the Netherlands while the Greeks are the 2nd hardest workers going by time spent at the job.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-QA-09-035/EN/KS-QA-09-035-EN.PDF

There's statistics if you don't believe me.

 

[Thorwyn]

There's statistics if you don't believe me.

:lol:

 

[Helme]

:lol:

He's previously questioned if the US is an imperialistic country, I doubt he'd take that statement at facevalue.

It's an attractive media narrative to blame Greece's problems on its lazy population. It's just obfuscating who is really responsible, just like the right-wing in the US is blaming teachers for budget deficits.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Its not about the hours spent at job, its about the eficiency, and the mediterranean countries suck at that, considering we spend from 9am to 7pm average at work

 

[bainteor]

Actually that lazy part is a fucking lie. Statistically, the laziest countries in Europe is the Netherlands while the Greeks are the 2nd hardest workers going by time spent at the job.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-QA-09-035/EN/KS-QA-09-035-EN.PDF

There's statistics if you don't believe me.

Statistics? I didn't know that laziness was a measurable entity, what are the units? Ha. I'm Greek, so I think I would know. It is all about the attitude to work.

Seriously, that post is pretty funny. What the poster above mentions is correct, along with a few other things.

 

[Helme]

I doubt systematic laziness was the reason we forced these loans on them in the first place, and it's not the heart of the issue. It's just a nice diversion. If laziness mattered, why is Ireland in such shit spot? Surely, they aren't lazy Mediterranean bums? The problem is widespread corruption on all government levels, allowing foreign investors to basically lend unlimited amounts of money when they know the country can't afford it(they'd be morons not to realise this) and then they will force the country to privatise, where they will buy up the resources and then lease them back. It's a global push, capitalism needs constant growth to function and public institutions is one of the last few marketplaces open to it.

edit: And they'll do this because they KNOW we have no choice but to pay for the stupid loans in the first place, and then pay them even more to use the roads/prisons/hospitals/what have you that were public property before!! Don't you see that we're just removing the risk from private investment, but not seeing any of the gain? What is to stop financial firms, mostly banks, from continuing giving these shit loans to other countries - then asking the public to bail them out and then buying up public property at a steal? I mean, it's a valid business model. There's 0 risk involved here, as long as you are big enough.

 

[bainteor]

Ok, there is no need to go off topic here and start writing an article on capitalism. The fact of the matter is that you are commenting on things about which you have no understanding, and you know it.

Amusing effort, though.

 

[BloodOmen]

Greece will never be out of debt, they'll just keep coming with their hands out and naturally it'll be the UK that has to foot most of it all the time... wish they'd just get us out of the fkin EU so we can just give them the finger and say jog on.

 

[Bahumat]

I think if a country goes bankrupt then they should be treated like a company going bust, all the countries assets should be liquidated and sold off to the highest bidder to pay of the countries debts.

I'm sure Turkey would love to get their hands on the rest of Cyprus. That'll teach them.

Greece and Cyprus are two different countries.

 

[DaGaffer]

Greece will never be out of debt, they'll just keep coming with their hands out and naturally it'll be the UK that has to foot most of it all the time... wish they'd just get us out of the fkin EU so we can just give them the finger and say jog on.

The UK is nowhere near the largest creditor to Greece, France is (with four times as much exposure as the UK), followed by Germany (with more than twice as much). Also, they aren't handouts if they expectation is they are to be paid back.

But even if the UK wasn't part of the EU, it would still be affected by this because the UK banking system will continue to lend to Greece. Take a look at UK exposure to Greece, its mostly private funds, whereas in the case of France and Germany the majority is Government money. This is what's so ridiculous, Greece can still borrow and the banking sector can still lend, because bonds are inviolate. Its the bond markets that are key to all of this; until bond holders are forced to take some responsibility for their own intemperate lending, this merry-go-round will continue.

 

[Billargh]

Statistics? I didn't know that laziness was a measurable entity, what are the units? Ha. I'm Greek, so I think I would know. It is all about the attitude to work.

Seriously, that post is pretty funny. What the poster above mentions is correct, along with a few other things.

Aren't you from Greece, bainteor?

 

[Laddey]

Let me run the country.

Problem solved.

 

[bainteor]

Aren't you from Greece, bainteor?

Yes and I can honestly say that the Greek people are partly to blame for this disaster.

 

[Zarjazz]

Yes and I can honestly say that the Greek people are partly to blame for this disaster.

Partly ??

Athens's debt, which stood at €340bn in December, was estimated to have exceeded €355bn, the equivalent of 150% of GDP, in April.

150% of GDP is slightly more than partly.

 

[cHodAX]

Would never have happened if Kratos was in charge!

 

[Chilly]

Government loading up with debt is a systematic problem. Populations being too weak to boot them out is a societal problem (which we have here), since they dont want to lose quality of life. So eventually what happens is the shit hits the fan and the quality of life adjustment is far bigger than expected and much more painful. It will happen everywhere, it has to. Petrol prices alone would cause this, even if you ignored everything else.

 

[Billargh]

Would never have happened if Kratos was in charge!

He'd certainly find a way to cut the debt like.

 

[bainteor]

Partly ??



150% of GDP is slightly more than partly.

So you are suggesting that the disaster in Greece is 100% the fault of the people?

Why are people always trying to misinterpret my statements?

 

[Embattle]

The country is to blame which is a mixture of its people and government but then so is Europe for allowing it to happen in the first place by even letting them join the Euro.

The harsh reality is that it comes down to which is the best of two evils and the idea of stopping them defaulting by lending them more money is just utterly stupid and will just cost more when it finally does go.

 

[Tuthmes]

Define "the people" first.

I'm pretty sure the local dentist or shop owner (or whatever) has little blaim. As a matter of fact the USA is (arguably) in the same state as Greece is atm. But we just look away when it comes to that. Or well the EU actually sticks to its rules as opposed to the USA which just adds more debt.

Iceland's people (300.000 residents somewhat) need to cough up 13.000 mil atm for a bank that fked up. Why on earth would the people need to pay for shit they don't have anything todo with.

Same goes for Greece. Why on earth would they have to suffer for mistakes and money grabbing bs they have nothing (or hardly anything) todo with.

Ok, there is no need to go off topic here and start writing an article on capitalism.

There is actually. The system is as corrupt (if not more) as socialism. But everytime it brakes down we build it back up. The interesting question is why.

Why isnt it possible to take care of eachother and yet leave room for people to expand their wealth?

 

[Helme]

Because any system where the end goal is building up piles of money is eventually going to turn to taking it from other people when they can't exploit the markets normally. But yes, I've always wondered about it as well, we keep getting the fact that communism died with the Soviet Union hammered into us - yet capitalism has failed dozens of times all over the world in the same time period, hell capitalism is failing Russia spectacularly now unless you're a member of the mob or one of the oil/gas oligarchs. Yet, it's the winner? I don't see how. It's systematic flaws that's causing the collapses of these countries. It's all fine until we run out of new markets, then the public is stuck with the bill thats why I keep trying to argue that it's not really the public that is at fault here. They have zero to very little input in political economics, especially so in the last 30 or so years when parties have been slowly merging together in terms of their fiscal policies.