GM food

[mr.Blacky]

Has anyone ever searched for how radioactive coal plants are?
Quote: The chances of experiencing adverse health effects from radiation are slim for both nuclear and coal-fired power plants—they're just somewhat higher for the coal ones. One chance in a billion for nuclear power plants, and it's one in 10 million to one in a hundred million for coal plants.

But even with that quote I do think the only reason that nuclear plants have a lower health risk is that they have been hated by the green movement, so they had to become saver.

 

[rynnor]

Has anyone ever searched for how radioactive coal plants are?

All fossil fuels have a level of radioactivity - old gaslight mantles used yo get quite 'hot' I think.

 

[Job]

The risk from radiation is entirely unquantifiable..they just guess..in fact for years it just followed the sensitivity of the detectors..you could get a large dose that isnt enough to kill an entire important part of your body and have no problems or just one mutated cell could give you cancer..exposure simply increases the risk.

 

[mr.Blacky]

True but 100 times more radiation is rather a large increase, and this is the ash that was mentioned. With China building one coal plant every 2 weeks it will also effect us here.

 

[rynnor]

True but 100 times more radiation is rather a large increase, and this is the ash that was mentioned. With China building one coal plant every 2 weeks it will also effect us here.

Not really - we couldnt actually be much further away so particulates/ash from China wont reach us in detectable levels.

 

[rynnor]

The risk from radiation is entirely unquantifiable..they just guess..in fact for years it just followed the sensitivity of the detectors..you could get a large dose that isnt enough to kill an entire important part of your body and have no problems or just one mutated cell could give you cancer..exposure simply increases the risk.

Fallacy really - the risks from various doses and types of radiation have been extensively researched by the US/Russians/UK. Recent research suggests low dosages of radiation are actually beneficial.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Not really - we couldnt actually be much further away so particulates/ash from China wont reach us in detectable levels.

The ash will reach us, just look at Krakatoa volcano, the effect reached us as well when it exploded. It took how long till they detected increases caused by Fukushima?

 

[rynnor]

Krakatoa wasnt a coal fired power station last time I checked - the largest most violent eruption in centuries it carried a lot of dust into the outer atmosphere.

Iodine detected from Fukushima was only detectable because theres 0 naturally occurring in the environment so any trace no matter how insignificant was assumed to be from Fukushima.

There are issues with coal power - largely acid rain and the effects of the particulates on humans - particularly those with asthma - but radiation is not a real concern except to the usual greenies who have an out of perspective fear of radiation.

 

[Poag]

Not really - we couldnt actually be much further away so particulates/ash from China wont reach us in detectable levels.

Particulates hang around in the atmosphere for a seriously long time. This is also the reason why the Yellowstone caldera is considered a world changing event if it were to ever go off. The ash from it would envelope the globe within a couple of weeks and hang around for months/years depending on the size of the eruption.

Its also why smog is such an issue in China/developing world, it just hangs around for ages

 

[Job]

It all collects in the thyroid anyway, just take iodine tablets to mop it up, that's you of course.
I'm getting the fuck outta here.

 

[Wij]

http://www.goldenrice.org/Content3-Why/why3_FAQ.php

 

[rynnor]

This is also the reason why the Yellowstone caldera is considered a world changing event if it were to ever go off.

Seriously? Again if yellowstone explodes it will carry millions of tonnes of rock particles as far as the stratosphere along with enormous amounts of sulphurous gases which cool the world - its the scale of eruptions that impacts the global climate.

Its also why smog is such an issue in China/developing world, it just hangs around for ages

Smog has many components not just particulates - its the weather conditions that determine if the smog in Beijing gets to dangerous levels - same as in London.

 

[Scouse]

http://www.goldenrice.org/Content3-Why/why3_FAQ.php

Interesting, but what you getting at?

 

[rynnor]

http://www.goldenrice.org/Content3-Why/why3_FAQ.php

They could have saved themselves a lot of effort and just told people to eat a tiny amount of crude palm oil instead but that wouldnt give them a big testbed for frankenfoods.

 

[Wij]

They could have saved themselves a lot of effort and just told people to eat a tiny amount of crude palm oil instead but that wouldnt give them a big testbed for frankenfoods.

Did you read it at all? Many people ONLY eat rice for most of the year. You just expect them to pop to Asda for some palm oil though?

 

[rynnor]

Did you read it at all? Many people ONLY eat rice for most of the year. You just expect them to pop to Asda for some palm oil though?

The faq contradicted itself though saying lots of people eat mostly rice then elsewhere when answering criticism about the amount of gm rice youd need to eat to get enough vitamin A they said it wouldnt be the major source in a persons diet.

If thats true then they basically failed and the whole thing is pointless except for experimental data on gm.

 

[Wij]

No. They said that a lot of people are on the borderline so it would make a difference.

 

[mr.Blacky]

You mean the part where they state: is not a replacement for existing efforts to tackle the problem, but could substantially complement them in the future and help make these sustainable, especially in remote rural areas.

Complement does not mean replace as far as I know

 

[rynnor]

No. They said that a lot of people are on the borderline so it would make a difference.

Very nice - it could be directly responsible for the deaths of millions one day if the golden rice strains turn out to have a nemesis like the potatoe blight that caused the Irish famine - anything that pushes us further towards a monoculture increases the risks.

 

[Wij]

Very nice - it could be directly responsible for the deaths of millions one day if the golden rice strains turn out to have a nemesis like the potatoe blight that caused the Irish famine - anything that pushes us further towards a monoculture increases the risks.

1.) It requires only a couple of genes to re-activate the pathway to produce B-carotin. It's almost a non-change.
2.) They specifically talked about re-activating the pathway in MULTIPLE LOCAL STRAINS!

Next, 'what if' scenario?

 

[Scouse]

Next, 'what if' scenario?

What if the 3rd largest GM seed producer isn't totally straight?

 

[rynnor]

1.) It requires only a couple of genes to re-activate the pathway to produce B-carotin. It's almost a non-change.
2.) They specifically talked about re-activating the pathway in MULTIPLE LOCAL STRAINS!

Why do you keep assuming I havent read the link? Why do you think I said Golden Rice strains?

A couple of genes can have an enormous impact on an organism but clearly you have decided its a 'Good Thing' and will now shout down reasonable doubts - have fun with that.

Let me know if you ever want to discuss an interesting topic reasonably again.

 

[Wij]

Strains
Monoculture

??

 

[rynnor]

Strains
Monoculture

??

Have you lost the ability to read or something?

"anything that pushes us further towards a monoculture increases the risks."

 

[Wij]

Have you lost the ability to read or something?

"anything that pushes us further towards a monoculture increases the risks."

Why would it push towards a monoculture? If they had attempted to do this with conventional hybridisation it would be much harder and hence less likely to keep multiple strains. Also the strains are capable of further cross-breeding. How does this make things worse in any way?

 

[rynnor]

Why would it push towards a monoculture? If they had attempted to do this with conventional hybridisation it would be much harder and hence less likely to keep multiple strains. Also the strains are capable of further cross-breeding. How does this make things worse in any way?

Because if strains of this golden rice become the dominant rice crop they will all share a certain percentage of their DNA - lower overall genetic diversity.

If a mould/fungus whatever that the golden varieties have no defence against comes along you are looking at mass starvation. Similar issues are occurring in wheat production today just from traditional horticulture - GM crops just speed up the decreasing genetic diversity if they come to dominate.

 

[Wij]

Because if strains of this golden rice become the dominant rice crop they will all share a certain percentage of their DNA - lower overall genetic diversity.

If a mould/fungus whatever that the golden varieties have no defence against comes along you are looking at mass starvation. Similar issues are occurring in wheat production today just from traditional horticulture - GM crops just speed up the decreasing genetic diversity if they come to dominate.

They already do share those parts of the genome that mean they don't produce B-carotin. No overall change.

 

[rynnor]

They already do share those parts of the genome that mean they don't produce B-carotin. No overall change.

But marketed as a 'great cure' these varieties are likely to displace lots of other regional varieties lowering genetic diversity. Even if its completely harmless this increases the risks of disease causing a terrible famine.

 

[Wij]

That depends on how it is taken up then but the same risks would apply to conventional hybridisation. More so in fact as it would be more difficult to just add the required genes to multiple strains.

 

[rynnor]

That depends on how it is taken up then but the same risks would apply to conventional hybridisation. More so in fact as it would be more difficult to just add the required genes to multiple strains.

I just think with new wonder crops the chances are higher that they become super popular than with traditional hybrids - especially since they are marketed far more strongly than traditional varieties.

With the health angle this golden rice could be incredibly popular...