GM food

[Job]

OK just a probably biased article from the Guard, but it seems these scenarios are true, it beggars belief for me that no one was able to stop this madness with the rather obvious outcome of it all.
'We've beaten evolution'

'No you haven't'

GM crops promote superweeds, food insecurity and pesticides, say NGOs | Environment | The Guardian

 

[rynnor]

I dont know too much about the yield issues but it is true about many african farmers buying monsanto seed - its perceived as the only game in town.

So where in the past they could source seed locally now they are all spending far more on GM seed.

The resistance in weeds is to be expected really - much like how wild UK rabbits are all resistant to myxymatosis now - the non-resistant die out and the resistant dominate.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Probably doritos and mountain dew like the rest.

 

[MYstIC G]

They really should stop messing around with these things.

 

[PLightstar]

Looks like we need to build farm space stations at this rate, for bio-fuel and food. Just need to construct a space elevator to make it efficient. Unless we start farming insects in large quantities to replace our need for large amounts of land for cattle.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

They really should stop messing around with these things.

High yield grains etc. have been developed for decades. The Earth wouldn't be able to sustain the amount of people it currently does if we hadn't modified seeds. So no, we shouldn't stop messing with it. We just need to mess with it in a clever, considered and future-thinking manner.

 

[Scouse]

High yield grains etc. have been developed for decades. The Earth wouldn't be able to sustain the amount of people it currently does if we hadn't modified seeds.

If you read the article and listen to the learned expert you'll find that "high-yield" isn't and that small-scale ecological farming is more productive mainly because of it's sustainability (it doesn't end up trashing the land you use) and protection of biodiversity, but also because of lower chemical use and no "arms race" for weeds/insects.

Pretty much what the science has been coming round to for about a decade now - and it's very well reflected in the popular literature (new scientist et. al).


Interesting video accompanying that article by the way.

 

[Reno]

Problem with small-scale eco farming is the much larger foot print it has, both in land use and in carbon emissions.

 

[Scouse]

Problem with small-scale eco farming is the much larger foot print it has, both in land use and in carbon emissions.

Yep. Don't disagree. There are also problems with large-scale intensive farming - and these problems outweigh the problems you mention.

 

[Wij]

You all talk shit.

http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/lecture-to-oxford-farming-conference-3-january-2013/

 

[Job]

I don't disagree it works, it's just that 3 billion years of evolution has armed nature pretty well and it will simply adapt as fast as we can deny it.
Much like the antibiotics, the predators and diseases will mutate rendering our efforts futile very quickly, all our food sources have been genetically modified.
There is nothing in a supermarket that is in it's natural form, apples, tomatoes, lettuce cucumber, banana, potato, wheat.. you name it and it's been derived from a distant ancestor that looked nothing like it does today. I just don't think GM is the magic bullet, it will fail to live up to it's hype and has done all over the world allready.

 

[Wij]

Pest-resistance is only one aim out of many. Allowing more crops to fix their own nitrogen will hugely reduce the amount of fertiliser required. Making the foodstuff more nutritious or the plant have a larger edible part is beneficial regardless of the pest issue.

 

[Wij]

Also your basic premise on resistance is only slightly true. Nature adapts slowly where the pest is an animal, plant or fungus. We, through science, can adapt faster. Bacteria and viruses are more of a problem in this regard but antibiotics aren't the only examples of relevance here. Look at vaccinations and smallpox. Many other diseases like polio could have been wiped out if the will had been there but compare the incidence of polio now with what it was 100 years ago. Sure nature can adapt but generally we are more adaptable.

 

[Scouse]

You all talk shit.

http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/lecture-to-oxford-farming-conference-3-january-2013/

I'll be ignoring the journalist, and Politics and History major who, by his own admission, had never read a peer-reviewed scientific paper on his chosen subject of prostelysation prior to 2008.

So, he's "found science" eh? And the science he's found comes down on the side of GM. Well, there's science that comes down on the opposite side of the fence too, sonny m'jimlad - and I'm not going to listen to the opinion of someone who's track record shows him to be, at best, unreliable as a source of authority on any subject.

 

[Raven]

The whole point of GM foods is control. Feeding the world wont make the GM companies billions of dollars, controlling the product will.

 

[Wij]

I'll be ignoring the journalist, and Politics and History major who, by his own admission, had never read a peer-reviewed scientific paper on his chosen subject of prostelysation prior to 2008.

Ad hominem ignored.

So, he's "found science" eh? And the science he's found comes down on the side of GM. Well, there's science that comes down on the opposite side of the fence too, sonny m'jimlad - and I'm not going to listen to the opinion of someone who's track record shows him to be, at best, unreliable as a source of authority on any subject.

If I can borrow the phrase used in relation to climate science, the "consensus" is firmly with GM products being safe and efficacious. If you choose to ignore that and only believe the studies you want to then good luck with that. You'll be fine with the Homeopaths and Intelligent Design crew.

 

[Wij]

The whole point of GM foods is control. Feeding the world wont make the GM companies billions of dollars, controlling the product will.

Bacofoil as millinery.

 

[Raven]

Well it's true. They won't make money selling corn to Africa, they will make money from patents.

 

[Job]

I love consensus...so in line with the scientific.method.

 

[Wij]

1.) Not all GM research is done by large corporations. Some is governmental.
2.) The fact that the field is so hampered with over-regulation due to scare stories has made your concerns MORE likely because the costs of GM research have become huge. That's a lot of money to recoup.
3.) Welcome to capitalism. Noone is forcing anyone to buy GM seeds. If it's worth it to farmers they will buy it. If not they won't.

 

[Wij]

I love consensus...so in line with the scientific.method.

Consensus isn't part of the scientific method. But there will often be seemingly conflicting research. Someone needs to form an opinion, hopefully backed by meta-analysis, of which research is good, well-conducted and relevant.

 

[Job]

You can forget GM in the wild..but it will work perfectly in the new farming superstructures they are considering..growing on nutrients in high rise under artificial light.

 

[Wij]

You can forget GM in the wild

Wow.

Obviously. I mean the Green Revolution failed spectacularly in the open air so this is bound to.

Oh wait. It didn't. It was a staggering success.

*boggle*

 

[Scouse]

the "consensus" is firmly with GM products being safe and efficacious.

I don't think that's correct.

We've not got a GM IPCC to settle the argument either way though.

Noone is forcing anyone to buy GM seeds.

That's patently untrue also. A lot of US aid to Africa is dependent on them taking GM seed only - or no aid.

Add to that a lot of trials being designed in a way that spreads the GM Gene Pool - and then the corporations saying that there's no point blocking further trials of that kind as the damage has already been done.

Disingenuous of them, eh?


I'm not anti-research into GM btw...

 

[Job]

I mean really im the first to back new technology and call the naysayers ludotes but GM jas corporate greed written all over it..they are tying the farmers into a dependency your local crack dealer would be proud of

 

[MYstIC G]

You all talk shit.

I'm sure someone said the same about nuclear power plants before Chernobyl happened.

When they've done 50 years worth of detailed studies that prove "nothing bad happens" then feel free to go for it in the wild, until then no thanks.

 

[Tom]

And yet hardly anyone died as a result of Chernobyl.

 

[Scouse]

And yet hardly anyone died as a result of Chernobyl.

Two things:
Firstly - the potential for a lack of casualties is not a good reason for a lack of caution.

Secondly - The Chernoble figures are hotly disputed. A lot of reputable scientists put the figures at close to 40,000* from increased cancers Europe-wide.

Despite the massive distance from the Ukraine you couldn't sell Welsh Lamb for a number of years - and you don't think it's going to have an effect?



*the range being from 4000 to half a million - and of course, that doesn't include adverse effects rather than just "death"...

 

[Tom]

Two things:
Firstly - the potential for a lack of casualties is not a good reason for a lack of caution.

Secondly - The Chernoble figures are hotly disputed. A lot of reputable scientists put the figures at close to 40,000* from increased cancers Europe-wide.

Despite the massive distance from the Ukraine you couldn't sell Welsh Lamb for a number of years - and you don't think it's going to have an effect?



*the range being from 4000 to half a million - and of course, that doesn't include adverse effects rather than just "death"...

Meh. Have a look at deaths from burning coal and compare that to nuclear. Funny how people worry about lightly irradiated sheepses, but not about breakfast cereals that contain a tonne of sugar.

 

[MYstIC G]

Meh. Have a look at deaths from burning coal and compare that to nuclear. Funny how people worry about lightly irradiated sheepses, but not about breakfast cereals that contain a tonne of sugar.

Oh what, you mean somebody discovered you could burn stuff, told everyone it was ok, loads of people burned fuckloads of it and then afterwards there was a problem...

I couldn't possibly draw a comparison here, it just wouldn't be right.