Gigabyte bundle - Thoughts please.

[Rubber Bullets]

Hi,

I'm still trying to spec up a new PC and have noticed that nice shiny new nF4 mobos and 6800GT cards are now being stocked around the place.

Whilst checking this I discovered this on the Overclockers site.

I know there are reasons for going with the 6800GT card instead of this, but financialy it seems to make sense.

I found a good review here which used an XP3000+ chip overclocked. Obviously the board is capable of this and a 3000 chip is a big saving over a 3500 which I was considering. Can someone with 'the knowledge' have a look at the overclock that they state there and tell me if I would need specific memory to do it? It would be stupid to save on a cheaper chip if I have to spend the difference on more expensive memory to achieve the overclock.

Overall though this set up with a 3000 chip looks good value against a non SLI equivalent board and a 6800GT card.

What do you think? All I want to do is run games with everything on at 1280x960. I'm not bothered by anisotropic filtering or even AA.

RB

 

[Clown]

http://this/

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Thanks Clown, and now I can't even put the link right.

This is what that this should have pointed too. Top item on the page

RB

 

[Cask]

Heya RB, I did a fair bit of reading around on memory overclocking and you almost certainly won't be able to take value type memory very far before it craps out.

To take the 3000 to 3800 you'd need PC4400 RAM which is rated at 275MHz and might even need to push that a little further. If you're not sure how far you're going to overclock then you probably want some real premium PC3200 like the OCZ platinum, GeIL Ultra-X or Corsair XL range.

I was thinking on getting this RAM as it's slightly cheaper but as far as I'm aware it doesn't use the Samsung TCCD chips that the premium ranges use so can't be sure how far it'll go.

 

[Cask]

After looking at that article you posted I've decided that I don't have a clue. I thought that as you increased the FSB the frequency of the RAM increased too but they clearly state that the CPU is running 9.0 x 273.5 MHz while the RAM is at 223.8 MHz.

It's all so complicated.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Thanks Cask,

I'm not really into squeezing every last ounce of performance regardless of cost, I am just wanting 3500 type performance from 3000 type money. As the 3000 Winchester is known to be o/c-able it looked a sensible choice. As I said before if I need premium money memory to get the same performance as the 3500 chip then it's not worth it.

I guess though, when you look at the price of the 3800 the faster memory makes better financial sense. The 3800 chip is still £400 where the 3000 chip is £100 and Geil Ultra £175 (ish) for 1Gb matched pair. (and you'd still need to buy memory for the 3800)

On the other hand I could take so long to decide that I can pick up everything for a fiver.

RB

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Cask, I didn't see your second post before replying.

I understand your confusion, I feel that I have read so much that I haven't got a clue what I know and what I don't.

Something in my mind is telling me that older mobos had memory clock speeds inextricably linked to the FSB. Newer ones allow FSB increases without memory clock increses. I really know nothing about the subject, I am simply regurgitating stuff I think I may have read. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

Does anyone know where we can get a Jonty or Xavier shapped symbol that we can project into the sky with a searchlight?

RB

 

[Cask]

I don't think anyone is going to save us so I found an another article that give some really good information on Athlon 64 overclocking. Best bit is:

So, if your memory's ceiling is limiting your overclock, and you can use a divider to get the CPU running faster...the only problem is, this doesn't always give better performance, because the CPU can't access the memory at all times, so sometimes it has to wait on the memory.

So if this is correct then having your memory running at the same frequency as the FSB looks definitely to be the best way.

 

[Escape]

The 3D1 package costs £375 from ocuk and gives you a motherboard + graphics card which performs at about 6800Ultra speeds(with Sli compatible games).


For an overclocking setup, consider the DFI-Ultra NF4 board(£105). If you're not planning to Sli later, an X800XL for £235 is more than enough to play games at 1280x960 even with some AA/AF!( I'm running this card on a gigabyte K8NXP-9 and like it! Doom3 runs fine at 1280x1024 with 'High' graphics settings. As does WoW with all effects turned high. Everything is still at stock speeds)

The 3D1 package seems like good value, but the DFI board has better overclocking potential. tbh I wouldn't buy the 3D1 until seeing some more reviews

 

[Xavier]

Does anyone know where we can get a Jonty or Xavier shapped symbol that we can project into the sky with a searchlight?

Alas, I've been offline most of the week, buried in a stack of work and then doing oodles of network stuff at home.

Cask hit the nail on the head, the best way to drive the CPU bus up if you're using lower grade memory is to use a divider. That way the CPU and RAM can run asynchronous bus speeds and you'll get the best from whatever you've bought.

In the example above with the CPU is running a 273.5 MHz bus while the RAM is at 223.8 MHz, all they've done is select a 5/4 divider in the memory timings, I'm pretty sure you'd have spotted it if those numbers were a little friendlier, but in short with 5/4 selected and a CPU at 200Mhz the RAM would be running 160Mhz. Most boards offer a wide variety of divider options so check the BIOS manual to the specific product when planning any purchase

If you do run things this way one tip - set the divider before you raise the FSB too high, if the memory can't handle the increased CPU bus frequency it will likely cause the machine to stop POSTing, and you'll need to do a BIOS reset, losing any overclock settings you'll have made in the process.

Oh, one other thing, if you're able to afford decent memories which will allow you to match CPU and memory speeds, I'd seriously consider getting it. Even with a dual channel DDR system it's quite easy to end up bottlenecked for memory bandwidth, if they're running clock for clock then this is far less likely, not to mention the additional oomph you get when neither component has to wait for the other "out of cycle", aka the memory interleave effect. It's all good and well hitting 6Ghz, but if your CPU is totally choked by the subsystem it won't be much faster than other machines at standard clocks when you get down to any real-world use.

 

[Danya]

In addition to adjusting the FSB, A64 chips are not multiplier locked, so you can adjust the multiplier to get faster chip speeds.

 

[Xavier]

The Athlon64FX certainly isn't locked. Is this now true of the desktop chips too? I've not seen any of the last stepping.

I'll fire up a system later and check, but from what I've heard from AMD, the lack of locked multiplier is a USP of the FX still.

Xav

 

[Clown]

Athlon64 multipliers are locked. The FX isn't locked, but you're unlikely to get much overclockerage out of that anyway, and it certainly isn't worth the money.

 

[Xavier]

There we are then.

On the note of the FX, I guess it all depends how extreme you want to go... some people are getting nutty speeds from the chips with crazy cooling, which means in about 6 months when the process is slightly more refined the lower FX CPUs could become a real dream.

Mind you, you can already drop the multiplier and raise the FSB to 250Mhz on an FX51/FX53, run DDR500Mhz and see a nice performance gain with interleave and very little additional thermal worries - no uber clockspeed to willy wave about but more oomph is nice.

 

[Clown]

I'm restraining myself from buying a system based around a Winchester 3200+ and PC4000 RAM - this would let me run at 10*250, but my current PC is fine.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Thanks for the time taken guys.

Xavier, very interesting, though as I have never OC'd before I'll probably just end up chickening out, buying the 3500 anyway. It is just too complex an area and I just know I'll end up frying something

BTW Xav do you have an opinion on the mobo/graphics combo?

RB

 

[Danya]

Athlon64 multipliers are locked. The FX isn't locked, but you're unlikely to get much overclockerage out of that anyway, and it certainly isn't worth the money.

Strange, because my A64 winchester is most certainly NOT locked. It currently runs at 9x250 (stock is 10x200).

 

[Clown]

It's locked going up. From what you posted above, I thought you meant he could keep the FSB the same and up the multiplier to get a faster clock speed.

 

[Danya]

I did... I just assumed since it was unlocked going down, it was also unlocked going up. Then again not sure how high I can push the FSB on this board yet, haven't gone over 250 yet as I haven't got round to altering the RAM divider and my RAM won't go much over 250.

 

[Clown]

Try and do 11*200. I don't think it will work.

 

[Danya]

I tried 7*300 earlier, booted, but not stable.

 

[Danya]

Try and do 11*200. I don't think it will work.

Can't set multiplier over 10, that sucks.

 

[smurkin]

iirc, mine will do 11x (its a Newcastle 3200)...wasn't at all stable tho, even though I turned the RAM down...maybe if your finding a ceiling at 10x, could be from the mobo.

 

[Danya]

iirc, mine will do 11x (its a Newcastle 3200)...wasn't at all stable tho, even though I turned the RAM down...maybe if your finding a ceiling at 10x, could be from the mobo.

It's not a stability issue, I could run 11x200 (given 9x250 works) no problem, it just won't let me set the multiplier that high.