funny islam speech

[Olgaline]

Sorry for your experience but it's hardly fair to band a whole faith under that umbrella, that also is a cultural thing not a religious one, after all if it was against the religion how would non-muslims be getting married to muslims?

this is a very typical problem, people often seem to get confused about and mixup Islam and Middeleastern culturs & norms,

 

[Platin]

Its not because he is negative about Islam, its because he is ignorant about the religion, but still decries it. If someone did the same thing about black people, or Jews, then you wouldn't wonder why people got up in arms, but because its currently politically convenient for our governments, its considered acceptable to do it about Muslims.

Funny you should say that, he has made a similar speech about jews and no one has called him a nazist.

The leftists and far right in my country are more or less constantly talking about jews in the same, or in a more offensive way, yet it is tolerated. Israel is obviously to blame here, because Israel is evil , so they had it coming!

Muslims are also talking about jews in the same or in a more offensive way, yet it is tolerated. But when muslims are talked about, it is suddenly a very sensitive subject.

Black people isn't a religious group.

 

[Platin]

It's nothing to do with the subject matter, its to do with the fact that he is plain ignorant and has a chip on his shoulder. IF he came up with well reasoned and factual argument that is another issue entirely, as i said above which mojo had his rant about i only watched 30 seconds of it and it became obvious how pointless it was to watch the rest

Ah the typical, standard defense: "the critics are ignorant". I can agree that he made a stupid comment about muslim women, but what else. If you have the time and patience, could you please enlighten me about the other "ignorant rant"?

The muslim council of britain (biggest body in the uk) condemmed terorrists who go around blowing people up, they supported the deportation of Abu Hamza al-Masri, Abdullah el-Faisal, who also preached anti-western proganda was removed from the mosque where he preached his wares and then later had a restraining order put on him to stop him coming near it again as he had set up shop across the street, he has now been deported again with public support from the council.

in february there was a demonstration in support of Imam Hussain who was executed in Iraq for being against Sadaam
Only a couple of months ago there was a march against terrorism in luton

Let me ask you this, what more do you expect them to do?
i do agree they seemed to lose the plot when that girl wanted to wear the whole burka in school but they were pretty quick to distance themselves afterwards when they realised their cock up.

It's nice to hear that the moderate muslim society is so active, but couldn't it be a reaction to public pressure? I'm questioning their motives yes.

Is that the same council that demanded for a ban on “un-Islamic” activities in schools.

Sunday Express: The World's Greatest Newspaper :: News / Showbiz :: Muslims: 'Ban' non-Islamic schools

The muslims in Sweden have not came so far as of yet, they are eager to point out how islamophobic and how many racists Sweden have though.

I only vaguely recall Hirshan Ali but wasnt she the one who was condemmed because she effectively said in the US that everyone in Gaza is a terrorist in one of her key note speaches or was it in a magazine. I do remember reading something she wrote a while back in the Economist or some such magazine

Sorry? If you're going to come with unfounded accusations I think the discussion will end here. A source would be nice.

 

[Chronictank]

Ah the typical, standard defense: "the critics are ignorant". I can agree that he made a stupid comment about muslim women, but what else. If you have the time and patience, could you please enlighten me about the other "ignorant rant"?

Will do when i get some time tomorow, but the obvious one is the fact he is taking examples from a tiny minority and claiming it is a mainstream problem

It's nice to hear that the moderate muslim society is so active, but couldn't it be a reaction to public pressure? I'm questioning their motives yes.

So they do something and its a reaction to pressure, if they didnt do anything then they arent doing enough...
Surely you see the folly of the comment, seeing as this all kicked off on 9/11 the community as a whole expressed their disgust at the event, equaly on the July 7th bombings the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) was side by side with Home Secretary, Charles Clarke when he called upon the Muslim community to help weed out terrorists.
They also were the pushing factor in the Mosques and Imam's national advisory board, which trains and monitors imams in britain ensuring national interests remain at heart and removing far right cleric's which have been seen on the news of late

Is that the same council that demanded for a ban on “un-Islamic” activities in schools.

Sunday Express: The World's Greatest Newspaper :: News / Showbiz :: Muslims: 'Ban' non-Islamic schools

No its not, that article was a proven to be pretty much entirely false (Daily express is a known right wing magazine). THe MCB complained to the Press Complaints Commission who agreed the article was misleading; for example one of the errors:
ERROR:
When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the neck”...

CORRECTION: When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the knee”...

Sorry? If you're going to come with unfounded accusations I think the discussion will end here. A source would be nice.

It was a question not a statement, i forgot to hit enter for the second sentance as i recall reading something by her but dont really rememebr much of it

 

[Huntingtons]

Funny you should say that, he has made a similar speech about jews and no one has called him a nazist.

The leftists and far right in my country are more or less constantly talking about jews in the same, or in a more offensive way, yet it is tolerated. Israel is obviously to blame here, because Israel is evil , so they had it coming!

Muslims are also talking about jews in the same or in a more offensive way, yet it is tolerated. But when muslims are talked about, it is suddenly a very sensitive subject.

Black people isn't a religious group.

and how exactly are muslims openly speaking about jews like that in the western world? yes, Iran does it, many muslims dispite jews - but openly? nowhere and it wont be tolerated in the western world.

 

[Platin]

Will do when i get some time tomorow, but the obvious one is the fact he is taking examples from a tiny minority and claiming it is a mainstream problem

Many British Muslims Put Islam First, NRO: Survey Shows Many Are More Loyal To Fellow Muslims Outside U.K. - CBS News

It's a big minority.

Surveys like this also make me sceptical about the idea of integrating masses of people during a short timespan. Maybe that's why we shouldn't discuss them or their role in society, it would be so much better to live in the dark.

But I'm not brittish, it's not my problem. The values that are being spread over Europe are though.

So they do something and its a reaction to pressure, if they didnt do anything then they arent doing enough...
Surely you see the folly of the comment, seeing as this all kicked off on 9/11 the community as a whole expressed their disgust at the event, equaly on the July 7th bombings the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) was side by side with Home Secretary, Charles Clarke when he called upon the Muslim community to help weed out terrorists.
They also were the pushing factor in the Mosques and Imam's national advisory board, which trains and monitors imams in britain ensuring national interests remain at heart and removing far right cleric's which have been seen on the news of late

Far right? You can call them extremists.

They are doing something, but not unless they are pressured to, yes.

Sounds like a fantastic organization though, it's a shame it seems to be the only of it's kind in Europe. In all fairness though, after the Lars Vilks cartoons, some muslim organizations in scandinavia stated that even though they were hideous, they were not really worth bombing Sweden over.

No its not, that article was a proven to be pretty much entirely false (Daily express is a known right wing magazine). THe MCB complained to the Press Complaints Commission who agreed the article was misleading; for example one of the errors:
ERROR:
When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the neck”...

CORRECTION: When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the knee”...

So due to one error, the whole article was false? I guess I should take your word for that.

It was a question not a statement, i forgot to hit enter for the second sentance as i recall reading something by her but dont really rememebr much of it

Oh, fooled me.

 

[Olgaline]

to fellow muslims or to fellow arabs ?
it's a dificult line to try and distinguish between.

 

[Raven]

Aren't half these nut job fundamentalists slavers and heroin farmers anyway? not very Muslim of them tbh. Had a chat with a Muslim friend of mine at work the other week, she is as disgusted as anyone that these people use Islam as a front to control the population and ultimately their bank balances.
Its the same as Christianity was 500 years ago, while most Christians were normal people most of the ones that held any sort of position in the church were corrupt kiddy fiddling only looking out for number one. Islam is younger than Christianity by a few hundred years so i guess its following the same pattern, control by fear until the populous revolt.

 

[Olgaline]

also I feel it's important to take a broader look at why things are as they are,
remember alot of these people are futetives even if they are 2'nd or 3'rd generation,
I also agree that alot of european countries have failed in intergrating the refugees we have before taking in new, wich as resulted in alot of "ghettosation tendancies" and due to this we have isolated them and they isolated them selvs from us, wich imo has been a loose/loose situation,

I think alot of it is down to bonding over common ground in this case "islam" being the one common denominator, for islamic refugees in Europe, and this is actually a very very normal example of human nature, expatriates do it too in africa, and I'm guessing if you go to spain or some of the Meditaranian islands, you'll find so called "english colonies" "scandinavian colonies" ect and so on,

All of this is very normal imo, and I for one feel that we in europe should do more to fight "colony tendancies" and really make a huge effort to intergrate the Arab/muslims we have into a multi cultural society based on democratic law.

As soon as we begin talking islamic law, and changing the european democratic systems, and Bring up things like the Jyllandsposten drawings ect, then my view is a very different one, That tendancy needs to be stopped Asap, and the muslim majority REALLY needs to speak out more clealy against this, ince atm it would infact seem that the general mood within the muslim comunity is one of tolerrence for this view, and thats just not ok imo.

but the way i see it.

ghetto/colony tendancies = a bigger barrier = more radicalisation = more ignorance on both sides of the fence.

intergration and education is the only way to co exsist, and imo alot of cultural & social issues are blamed apon Islam since it's the "easy target" instead of there being any real proof that Islam is basicly to blame in it self.


meh hope that makes sence, would have loved to write this in danish instead, :s
as i dont feel i fully got my point across as well as i could have :/

 

[Fafnir]

Sorry for your experience but it's hardly fair to band a whole faith under that umbrella, that also is a cultural thing not a religious one, after all if it was against the religion how would non-muslims be getting married to muslims?


Surely you can see something wrong with that, alcohol is forbidden in the religion so what makes you think they care about any of the other parts of the faith. What makes them worse than any other group of louts who are pissed out their skulls?

I put the word some muslims in there to try and say that some are bad seeds, not all.

 

[Platin]

to fellow muslims or to fellow arabs ?
it's a dificult line to try and distinguish between.

Yes, want me to help you?

 

[Platin]

also I feel it's important to take a broader look at why things are as they are,
remember alot of these people are futetives even if they are 2'nd or 3'rd generation,
I also agree that alot of european countries have failed in intergrating the refugees we have before taking in new, wich as resulted in alot of "ghettosation tendancies" and due to this we have isolated them and they isolated them selvs from us, wich imo has been a loose/loose situation,

I think alot of it is down to bonding over common ground in this case "islam" being the one common denominator, for islamic refugees in Europe, and this is actually a very very normal example of human nature, expatriates do it too in africa, and I'm guessing if you go to spain or some of the Meditaranian islands, you'll find so called "english colonies" "scandinavian colonies" ect and so on,

All of this is very normal imo, and I for one feel that we in europe should do more to fight "colony tendancies" and really make a huge effort to intergrate the Arab/muslims we have into a multi cultural society based on democratic law.

As soon as we begin talking islamic law, and changing the european democratic systems, and Bring up things like the Jyllandsposten drawings ect, then my view is a very different one, That tendancy needs to be stopped Asap, and the muslim majority REALLY needs to speak out more clealy against this, ince atm it would infact seem that the general mood within the muslim comunity is one of tolerrence for this view, and thats just not ok imo.

but the way i see it.

ghetto/colony tendancies = a bigger barrier = more radicalisation = more ignorance on both sides of the fence.

intergration and education is the only way to co exsist, and imo alot of cultural & social issues are blamed apon Islam since it's the "easy target" instead of there being any real proof that Islam is basicly to blame in it self.


meh hope that makes sence, would have loved to write this in danish instead, :s
as i dont feel i fully got my point across as well as i could have :/

One could question the concept of integration, does it really work in the way the people expects it to? If it doesn't, why not?

When you break it down, what does it really mean?

Speaking generally no one can argue against the fact that middle-eastern culture and western european culture are worlds apart, there are common factors but generally we are very far apart. Integration as a concept means that you mix cultures (normally the majority culture becomes dominant), but how can this work, during the short timespan people expect, when the majority and the minority look on eachother with distrust, and as both are portrayed as decadent by the other, and as if they lead to depravation?

A common tendency in Europe, is that immigrants settle down close to their fellow countrymen, or in areas that share a more attractive demographic, and who can blame them for wanting security. You can of course blame it on social factors too, but from a scandinavian point of view, this is a clear tendency.How do we solve this in a democratic way, do we start forcing people to intermix?

How do we integrate so many people, during such a short time, when we still have many neighboring ethnic groups that have lived together for hundreds of years, yet still they're further apart than ever?

 

[tierk]

...........A common tendency in Europe, is that immigrants settle down close to their fellow countrymen............

This is true in most cases not just in Europe. I would ask you if you have ever seen Xpats living abroad do they integrate into the cultures that they live in or do they lead completely seperate lives?

Here in Qatar for example which has a very large Xpat community we dont see many expats in our day to day lives as they all tend to live in certain areas and hang out at certain clubs and they tend to have their own social activities. It is a natural thing to want to be around people from your own community who speak the same language and eat the same food.

I am very lucky in the sense that i have my feet well grounded in both worlds and i can mix freely amongest both worlds (western and muslim) without problems but then i consider myself a great advantage to many people as i have had the benefit of fantastic parents that have brought me up to be open minded and to understand that the world is not just a muslim /westerm world, that in fact it is full of a great variety of people with a vastly differing styles /outlooks on life.

It is true that as a muslim i see myself first and foremost as a muslim. Then i consider myself a Iranian /British and i dont see anything wrong with this as being British or Iranian doesnt entail a certain way of life, where as being a Muslim does define what /who am in a big way, even though i am not what people would call a hardcore or practising (well i practise some things just not all).

Nationality is decided after all by a bunch of lines drawn on a map and a question of where you happen to touch down (are born) or live/work in relation to those lines. Maybe this a very different outlook to what most people have and its probably due to the fact that i have spent all my life living in other countries then what everyone would consider my nationality to be.